Kindl, Sheahan, McCollum and Smith... Those are our firsts and ultimately became duds. All pretty late firsts mind you. Compare that with the rest of the league, where year on year which teams picked in the same position and how many actually hit a homerun. Getting Tatar, Nyquist, Hudler, etc in the round they were picked, overall, we did alright. The amount of picks traded was done so for a reason and ultimately, we got a cup and a final to show for it.
News Article: Jimmy Howard extension coming (Maybe/Maybe not)
- Thread starter TCNorthstars
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Kindl, Sheahan, McCollum and Smith... Those are our firsts and ultimately became duds. All pretty late firsts mind you. Compare that with the rest of the league, where year on year which teams picked in the same position and how many actually hit a homerun. Getting Tatar, Nyquist, Hudler, etc in the round they were picked, overall, we did alright. The amount of picks traded was done so for a reason and ultimately, we got a cup and a final to show for it.
What is Howard's realistic trade value:
-if he stays healthy
-if he continues to play well. ( overall, I think Howard has played well. He has given up some untimely soft goals, but played well in front of this defense)
-if Detroit retains 50% of his salary
Personally, I see a 3rd that could turn into a second if he/new team play deep into the playoffs. For the rebuild, that is enough value to trade him and resign him in the off season.
-if he stays healthy
-if he continues to play well. ( overall, I think Howard has played well. He has given up some untimely soft goals, but played well in front of this defense)
-if Detroit retains 50% of his salary
Personally, I see a 3rd that could turn into a second if he/new team play deep into the playoffs. For the rebuild, that is enough value to trade him and resign him in the off season.
Shaman464
No u
- Sep 27, 2017
- 5,371
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If Detroit re-signs Howard, I will be disappointed.
Rather have the pick, or whatever he could return.
I see no reason for Detroit to re-sign him.
Rather have the pick, or whatever he could return.
I see no reason for Detroit to re-sign him.
Henkka
Registered User
It's a bit crazy, but when you look at the last 3-seasons stats, Jimmy is pretty much par with Holtby, Varlamov, Bishop and Lundqvist.
Bobrovsky would be the only upgrade from free agency. Other better goalies are signed on their teams.
Bobrovsky would be the only upgrade from free agency. Other better goalies are signed on their teams.
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Which is another reason I want Varlomov in UFA, might as well stabilize G for a few seasons while the D corps gets assembled & ready and the F's find their game.
Henkka
Registered User
Why do you want Varlamov, which isn't even an upgrade? Maybe younger than Jimmy.
Varlamov is just switching from average guy to another.
Bobrovsky is THE upgrade.
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Decent #'s on many crappy rosters, except 16-17 when he only played 24 gms, but the whole COL team sucked. Plus younger than Jimmy, we know he can handle the workload as #1 & is probably hungry for a cup. JH just seems to be too comfy too often. Lastly, SV he'll be cheaper than Bob
I don't know what happened with Holland and goalies. He used to be so cutthroat with the likes of Osgood and Cujo, both far better goalies than Howard. Jimmy has been given a million chances to be more here.
I know it doesn't really matter given the current roster, but what does that say to the players when mediocrity is rewarded with such loyalty? I guess it says you want to be in the cool club like Abby, Helm, and Howard.
I know it doesn't really matter given the current roster, but what does that say to the players when mediocrity is rewarded with such loyalty? I guess it says you want to be in the cool club like Abby, Helm, and Howard.
kliq
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2017
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To be fair, in the instances you reference with Joseph and Osgood, Holland had "on paper" a better option as both were cut for arguably the greatest goaltender of all time in Hasek. Then when you add it the fact that we were legit contenders, it makes sense. Right now with Howard, its not as if he has a better option staring him in the face and he's simply just turning it away. Its a completely different situation.
With that said, I actually hated the way the Joseph/Hasek situation was handled.
It's hard to pivot with goalies in the salary cap world. Once Howard signed his long-term deal, that was it. Mrazek was given the reigns and he failed miserably.
Henkka
Registered User
It's all relative.
If other options to replace Jimmy Howard are worse, you pretty much keep Jimmy Howard. That's very very simple.
KJoe88
Forever Lost.
I think our goaltending future looks bleak, but unlike Nyquist, I don’t believe Howard can help us. And I’m a big supporter of his.
Should trade him.
Should trade him.
Steve Yzerlland
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2018
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Pizza!Pizza!
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2018
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Obviously Holland wanted options. Bernier at 3x3 was a safe bet and it covers the Wings' asses in the event of either Howard being hurt/sucking or not wanting the re-sign or getting an unrefusable trade deadline offer. Holland has also shown lately that he's learned from a lot of the 'mistakes' he make ~3-5 years ago with the contracts he doled out. I would put money on him resigning Howard to a max of 3 years and a max of 2 million, regardless of how well he plays this year. The only scenario I could foresee screwing up the negotiations would be if Howard started posting shutouts and somehow wins the Vezina this year - then I could see things going sideways and the $$ jumping up.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Well what do you want? Maybe Howard is "mediocre" but his stats are on par with guys like Holtby, Lundqvist, Varlamov, Bishop etc. the last few years. Substantial upgrades on Howard are not easy to come by and the timing definitely isn't NOW to make some aggressive cutthroat move to land a superstar #1 goalie.
When Mrazek outplayed Howard, it looked like we had a change of our #1. Then Mrazek faltered and Howard bounced back in a big way. We signed Bernier to possible take over after Howard. Again Howard is outplaying his competition.
What does it say to the players if the guy who is putting in the work and playing better is let go in favor of worse options?
Henkka
Registered User
Salary cap happened.
When we had that 77 million payroll at 2003, it was Cujo for 8 million and Hasek for 8 million at same time.
Imagine that in a cap world.
Easiest to cut salaries in 2005 was to cut it from goaltendeing.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
- 10,965
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You can treat Howard as the best option currently available without bidding against yourself to keep him. (Let alone rushing out to extend him before necessary.)
He's not worth more than 2 years, and not worth more than $3.5M AAV. Hopefully patience wins the day, and no unreasonable deals are signed.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
- 3,387
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Yeah, this is what I was getting at in my comment looking at stats of Stanley Cup winning goalies over the last 10 years.
You don't need your goalie to be the best in the league, you just need him to be 'good enough'. The rest of the team matters far more.
Howard would be more than good enough playing behind a team like Washington, for example.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
holtby and lundqvist have about 30 more games played since 16-17 but yes, their stats are similar. and those guys have been medicore too. howie, rask, holtby and varly are all tied for 19th in sv% during that period (at least 50 gp).
if we look at 15-16 to today (at least 100 gp), Howard drops to #26 (tied with 5 other goalies). about the same rank he has from 17-18 to today.
since 12-13, Howard has one, ONE above avg season. and he usually starts hot and falters towards the end as he picks up injuries. on this particular season his injuries were bad enough that he couldn't play more than 26 games and thus had good numbers overall.
from 16-17 to today is the only comp howie looks even average/medicore starter. unless we go back to like 11-12.
if we look at 15-16 to today (at least 100 gp), Howard drops to #26 (tied with 5 other goalies). about the same rank he has from 17-18 to today.
since 12-13, Howard has one, ONE above avg season. and he usually starts hot and falters towards the end as he picks up injuries. on this particular season his injuries were bad enough that he couldn't play more than 26 games and thus had good numbers overall.
from 16-17 to today is the only comp howie looks even average/medicore starter. unless we go back to like 11-12.
ChrisReevesLegs
Registered User
ChrisReevesLegs
Registered User
Lil Sebastian Cossa
Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
- Jul 6, 2012
- 11,436
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Jimmy Howard is a good goalie.
Excellent is way way too far.
I've always liked Howard more than most, but he's simply never been better than above average and he has had a lot of time where he was decidedly below average (mostly injury related, but it's still there as bad hockey)
He's good positionally, but he's awful at moving in the crease. He's prone to giving up softies now and again and he's not a plus puck handler.
He'll never be the reason you lose a game or a series but he'll also never be the reason you win one either.
