News Article: Jimmy D. : "Red Wings won't 'sit back' in attempt to rebuild"

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It is funny Devellano talks about he and Holland being aggressive. Holland has been the opposite of aggressive through most of his years as GM and up until about 2010 it served him well.

But really it's mostly nothing quotes. As someone said in another thread, actions are what matter. Not words.

 

[izlez]

Premise: Tanking works.

See: Buffalo tanked and got lots of high draft picks.

Outcome: Buffalo is bad at hockey.

Conclusion: Tanking works! Blame veterans!

 

[SirloinUB]

so the "net way things turned out" doesn't count the fact that they gave up assets like Myers and a first in the process because? why exactly?

if the Wings traded Larkin to get Tatar back then turned around and traded Tatar for a first would the "net outcome of the Wings acquiring Tatar" be a first? do you really not see how stupid phrasing it that way sounds?

Net income is your income after taxes and other deductions, or in other words, what you end up taking home. Similarly I used Net outcome to represent what buffalo “took home” from the trades ie, the pieces I listed + Bogosian. If you feel my use of the word “net” in this context is slightly out of place I apologize for offending you.

Im curious though if you actually read any of the conversation? I responded to comment that suggested the RoR and Kane trades impeded the buffalo rebuild to which I contend they did not. Agree or disagree?

 

[PelagicJoe]

I am not sure what to make of this. I agree that KH and Jimmy D should be lynched if they offer sheet Nylander.

 

[Ezekial]

And outcome is literally "the way a thing turns out." So the Net 'way things turned out' was buffalo ending up with those pieces.

But thanks for splitting hairs on the english language and missing the point that those trades didn't prevent the team from rebuilding.

They tried to accelerate their rebuild and were smart enough to see they were garbage still and got assets for players they spent assets on.

 

[SirloinUB]

They tried to accelerate their rebuild and were smart enough to see they were garbage still and got assets for players they spent assets on.

They were smart with the players they acquired. They got guys that had enough stand alone value that they could flip them for valuable pieces if/when things didn't work out. All in all, they built an excellent pool of assets in a period of 3-4 years. Turning that pool of assets into a competitive team has definitely been a struggle for them. Given the talent they and future assets they have acquired it will be a real damnation of management if they cant get moving in the right direction. it's early but they are trending in the right direction this season.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I disagree.

He said they're impatient and they want to win. He basically said they can't do anything right now because of our cap situation, but after this season they won't have the same restraints.

How anyone could look at Abby, Nielsen, and Helm this season and think they'll have any place on a relatively competitive team is beyond me.

Chia was impatient and aggressive too.

Hmmm... The Wings were pretty competitive in the mid 90s to the 2010s and they found places on the roster for

-Brent Gilchrist
-Kirk Maltby
-Greg Johnson
-Tomas Sandstrom
-Andreas Lilja
-Brett Lebda

-etc.

The bar that you need for an NHL level player is shockingly low if your team has elite talent. The Wings issue has always been that they lack the top of the roster talent that they had forever. Frankly, if say, Zadina works out in a big way and they get a top 3 pick this year and that's a bona-fide 1C and they do something to get a Trouba/Karlsson/whoever, they're back in the playoffs without really shuffling a whole lot off the roster.

I mean, they are in the position that with a good amount of luck, they could be good again VERY quickly. So many of their problems are 3rd line guys being paid like 2nd line guys but playing like third line guys. And in the next two years, damn near all of those deals come off the books without a whole lot in the way of needing to re-up guys.

E: Now, they could easily stay bad for awhile too. The "couple guys" they need are also like the unicorns of the league. But basically, the stage is still set that if they were to be aggressive and land those pieces, they could be good again quickly. DDK was fine on a second pairing but is butt when trying to carry the D.

 

[Ezekial]

Hmmm... The Wings were pretty competitive in the mid 90s to the 2010s and they found places on the roster for

-Brent Gilchrist
-Kirk Maltby
-Greg Johnson
-Tomas Sandstrom
-Andreas Lilja
-Brett Lebda

-etc.

The bar that you need for an NHL level player is shockingly low if your team has elite talent. The Wings issue has always been that they lack the top of the roster talent that they had forever. Frankly, if say, Zadina works out in a big way and they get a top 3 pick this year and that's a bona-fide 1C and they do something to get a Trouba/Karlsson/whoever, they're back in the playoffs without really shuffling a whole lot off the roster.

I mean, they are in the position that with a good amount of luck, they could be good again VERY quickly. So many of their problems are 3rd line guys being paid like 2nd line guys but playing like third line guys. And in the next two years, damn near all of those deals come off the books without a whole lot in the way of needing to re-up guys.

Not true. 13 million on 3 bottom 6ers for 3 more years. It's not the 90s, you can't waste 13 million on absolute dogshit because of the cap.

We should be looking at coming out of the rebuild as those deals begin to expire, outside of offer sheeting a young top D man and signing Trouba in 2 years, we need to not try to be aggressive to accelerate the rebuild until at least 3 seasons.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Not true. 13 million on 3 bottom 6ers for 3 more years. It's not the 90s, you can't waste 13 million on absolute dog**** because of the cap.

That is a good point. However, in the next 3 years, who do they have to replace of a material nature? Nyquist this year. AA and Mantha next year. While freeing up nearly 15-18 this year and next.

Zadina isn't getting a raise in that time, Hughes or '19 1st isn't getting a raise in that time. Veleno isn't. Berggren isn't. We are at a place where it almost kinda doesn't matter if we have 13M on bottom 6ers. Not optimal, sure. But we will have the cap space to add the bona-fide top of roster guys we need and any young player we want to keep is covered salary-wise. By the time we should be good again, that 13M third line should either be gone or in their last year or two.

 

[Ezekial]

That is a good point. However, in the next 3 years, who do they have to replace of a material nature? Nyquist this year. AA and Mantha next year. While freeing up nearly 15-18 this year and next.

Zadina isn't getting a raise in that time, Hughes or '19 1st isn't getting a raise in that time. Veleno isn't. Berggren isn't. We are at a place where it almost kinda doesn't matter if we have 13M on bottom 6ers. Not optimal, sure. But we will have the cap space to add the bona-fide top of roster guys we need and any young player we want to keep is covered salary-wise. By the time we should be good again, that 13M third line should either be gone or in their last year or two.

That's true about the raises.
I guess it all depends on how we come out of the draft this year and how Cholo etc progresses this year. If we secure that elite player in the draft it could make acquiring some sort of highly touted current NHL D-man a tangible move that puts us in the upward trajectory.

I just fear they'll try to do too much with too little.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's true about the raises.
I guess it all depends on how we come out of the draft this year and how Cholo etc progresses this year. If we secure that elite player in the draft it could make acquiring some sort of highly touted current NHL D-man a tangible move that puts us in the upward trajectory.

I just fear they'll try to do too much with too little.

Oh yeah, it's a dangerous time. Just saying that in this moment in time with how our cap sets out... having a 13M 3rd line is just a really crappy after-effect of the decline. It actually has reached the point that cap space truly almost doesn't matter to Detroit. Anyone who needs money in the young guys has it now OR is just drafted and is so far away from their payday that the crimp 13M on garbage would put on is not there anymore.

But seriously, this is a time where Detroit could go balls to the wall if they wanted to without changing a whole lot.

 

[Bench]

I'm excited to meet this new gunslinger Kenny.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'm excited to meet this new gunslinger Kenny.

Ha.

That's what I was thinking. Devellano is a gunslinger but unfortunately in his case that sometimes means saying really stupid things to the press and trading Adam Oates.

 

[TheMule93]

Kenny generally wins trades so if hes gonna be more aggressive it could actually end up well for us

 

[Run the Jewels]

Red Wings won't 'sit back' in attempt to rebuild

Mostly common knowledge & fluff, but a few good quotes:

"We're superstar driven, and it pains me, it pains Ken, that we are bereft of a superstar," Devellano said. "Superstars win games. Superstars sell tickets. Superstars drive TV ratings. And to sit here and not have that kind of player, or preferably players, is painful. But that's as candid as I can be with you. We do have a plan."

"The one thing we don't want to do is make promises,"

"Quite frankly, we're not the most patient people. We've been used to winning. We may have to go outside the box to push this program along. I won't go into detail about that, but we may have to go outside the box and do things that normally aren't done in order to push us up the standings and to get more competitive."

"You need to start somewhere with a superstar," "We recognize that. I can tell you as long as Ken Holland and Jimmy D are involved, we will be aggressive.

My guess/hope is that they are going to trade assets again this trade deadline to accrue draft picks and then go hard after free agents in the summer. It's what makes the most sense based on the fact Holland has completely f***ed up the cap for the past several seasons. Next year we should have close to $15 million in cap space and could get close to $20 million if some roster players are traded for draft picks.

You have Hughes/Larkin/Veleno down the middle and add in one or two of Karlsson, Panarin, Stone, Trouba, etc and you can rebound pretty quickly. The difficulty is getting them to sign in Detroit. Trouba would likely make sense although Karlsson's skill would be huge in Detroit.

So that's what I think he's getting at. Fine with me, although I'd prefer to Steve Yzerman and his scouts making those draft picks for us.

 

[Frk It]

Kenny generally wins trades so if hes gonna be more aggressive it could actually end up well for us

He also only partakes in low-risk moves for the most part. We only move on from guys when it’s pretty clear what they are (and what they’re not).

Betting big is much different than betting small. Not really sure I buy that we are going to actually do that. I think this is just a statement from the front office to say “we are exploring all possible avenues of improving”.

We will see... I think there are moves that could certainly help.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Kenny generally wins trades so if hes gonna be more aggressive it could actually end up well for us

But I think he wins trades because he's very careful about them. Aggressiveness would probably mean making more trades he's unsure about.

 

[Henkka]

Lol after 5 years you now believe that getting elite talent is by drafting high. Gee I wonder what changed. It was totally Holland's plan all along.

Yep. the drafting environment changed.

Our organization has changed too.

Only thing which hasn't changed, is bashing and whining on this board. Just the objective changes.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I wonder if we're the intended audience for this announcement. Is he trying to convince us? It occurs to me that this might be theatre to try to keep their jobs. They're saying to Chris Ilitch, "Look, we're going to try to give you what you want. We'll speed up the rebuild as much as possible so you can get back to making money."

And in the same vein, he's saying to the fans, "Don't stop buying season tickets, because we're going to win again sooner than you think." Which in a way would also be directed at Chris Ilitch.

The state of the team combined with Yzerman in town must feel a bit like a target on their backs. Jimmy D probably thinks he's out of there if Holland gets moved up.

 

[ricky0034]

My guess/hope is that they are going to trade assets again this trade deadline to accrue draft picks and then go hard after free agents in the summer. It's what makes the most sense based on the fact Holland has completely ****ed up the cap for the past several seasons. Next year we should have close to $15 million in cap space and could get close to $20 million if some roster players are traded for draft picks.

You have Hughes/Larkin/Veleno down the middle and add in one or two of Karlsson, Panarin, Stone, Trouba, etc and you can rebound pretty quickly. The difficulty is getting them to sign in Detroit. Trouba would likely make sense although Karlsson's skill would be huge in Detroit.

So that's what I think he's getting at. Fine with me, although I'd prefer to Steve Yzerman and his scouts making those draft picks for us.

the scary thing will be when he fails in his attempt to get those guys and signs guys like Brassard/Edler to big deals because the cap space is burning a hole in his pocket

 

[Henkka]

Only thing how they can be aggressive on short-term is

A) trading current players for picks
B) free agency, spending money HARD

There's nothing else.

- trade Nyquist for picks
- trade Daley for picks
- trade Glendening for picks
- trade Jimmy for picks
- trade Jensen for picks
- trade Athanasiou


I could see them going hard after Sergei Bobrovsky, who's almost 100% sure leaving Columbus. Best Starter available for a while. That would be a huge upgrade on goalie position. Absolutely huge. Throw +7M for him, but not longer than 3-4 years.

Go after UFA Tyler Myers, if Jets will extend Jacob Trouba. Or trade for Trouba, if he is problematic again for Jets and they'll extend Myers. There's a serious RhD problem coming at Jets, get one guy out of there to bolster the Wings roster. Both Trouba and Myers won't be together at next season, get the advantage of the situation anyway it goes.

Throw 9M or more for Artemi Panarin. That's being aggressive.

Draft Cozens/Hughes/Kakko/Dach.

Bring in Veleno+Zadina.

- Let Vanek walk
- Let Kronwall walk
- Let Frk walk
- Let Witkowski walk

Panarin - Larkin - Mantha
Rasmussen - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Cozens/Hughes - Svechnikov
Akader - Nielsen - Helm
(Ehn, Dela Rose)

Cholowski - Myers/Trouba
DeKeyser - Green
Ericsson - Hronek
Hicketts or some other plug

Bobrovsky
(Bernier)

If all the UFAs say NO, then be bad and keep drafting high.

 

[Frk It]

Isn’t trying to speed up a re-build what the Leafs did which blew up in their face a bit?

I think there’s a time and place for actual player for player trades, but I’m not sure we are there just yet. I’m not as tethered to our young players as others so I guess I will have to wait and see where this leads.

 

[ThankGord]

Only thing how they can be aggressive on short-term is

A) trading current players for picks
B) free agency, spending money HARD

There's nothing else.

- trade Nyquist for picks
- trade Daley for picks
- trade Glendening for picks
- trade Jimmy for picks
- trade Jensen for picks
- trade Athanasiou


I could see them going hard after Sergei Bobrovsky, who's almost 100% sure leaving Columbus. Best Starter available for a while. That would be a huge upgrade on goalie position. Absolutely huge. Throw +7M for him, but not longer than 3-4 years.

Go after UFA Tyler Myers, if Jets will extend Jacob Trouba. Or trade for Trouba, if he is problematic again for Jets and they'll extend Myers. There's a serious RhD problem coming at Jets, get one guy out of there to bolster the Wings roster. Both Trouba and Myers won't be together at next season, get the advantage of the situation anyway it goes.

Throw 9M or more for Artemi Panarin. That's being aggressive.

Draft Cozens/Hughes/Kakko/Dach.

Bring in Veleno+Zadina.

- Let Vanek walk
- Let Kronwall walk
- Let Frk walk
- Let Witkowski walk

Panarin - Larkin - Mantha
Rasmussen - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Cozens/Hughes - Svechnikov
Akader - Nielsen - Helm
(Ehn, Dela Rose)

Cholowski - Myers/Trouba
DeKeyser - Green
Ericsson - Hronek
Hicketts or some other plug

Bobrovsky
(Bernier)

If all the UFAs say NO, then be bad and keep drafting high.

I think I've done this exact scenario in NHL 19 Franchise Mode haha

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Only thing how they can be aggressive on short-term is

A) trading current players for picks
B) free agency, spending money HARD

There's nothing else.

- trade Nyquist for picks
- trade Daley for picks
- trade Glendening for picks
- trade Jimmy for picks
- trade Jensen for picks
- trade Athanasiou


I could see them going hard after Sergei Bobrovsky, who's almost 100% sure leaving Columbus. Best Starter available for a while. That would be a huge upgrade on goalie position. Absolutely huge. Throw +7M for him, but not longer than 3-4 years.

Go after UFA Tyler Myers, if Jets will extend Jacob Trouba. Or trade for Trouba, if he is problematic again for Jets and they'll extend Myers. There's a serious RhD problem coming at Jets, get one guy out of there to bolster the Wings roster. Both Trouba and Myers won't be together at next season, get the advantage of the situation anyway it goes.

Throw 9M or more for Artemi Panarin. That's being aggressive.

Draft Cozens/Hughes/Kakko/Dach.

Bring in Veleno+Zadina.

- Let Vanek walk
- Let Kronwall walk
- Let Frk walk
- Let Witkowski walk

Panarin - Larkin - Mantha
Rasmussen - Veleno - Zadina
Bertuzzi - Cozens/Hughes - Svechnikov
Akader - Nielsen - Helm
(Ehn, Dela Rose)

Cholowski - Myers/Trouba
DeKeyser - Green
Ericsson - Hronek
Hicketts or some other plug

Bobrovsky
(Bernier)

If all the UFAs say NO, then be bad and keep drafting high.

Agreed for the most part. Trouba is UFA in 2020 though. Break Veleno in slowly, unless he's really ready, so 2nd line= Veleno+Neilsen & Zadina/Bert. Otherwise you have essentially 3 rookie F's on 2nd line. Panarin would be intriguing. By 2019 DDK-Hronek should be able to hold down 2nd pairing. Cholo-Green on 1st pair. E-Sulak on 3rd.

 

[Run the Jewels]

the scary thing will be when he fails in his attempt to get those guys and signs guys like Brassard/Edler to big deals because the cap space is burning a hole in his pocket