News Article: Jimmy D. : "Red Wings won't 'sit back' in attempt to rebuild"

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
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It depends. If you offer sheet Point, chances are you will contend for a playoff spot. So say that you sign Point at the cost of four first round picks, roughly in the early to mid 20’s.

Would you trade Svech, Cholowski, Mantha and Veleno today for Point? I personally would.

That is a worthwhile gamble for a great, young player imo. I would never fault anyone who feels otherwise though.

the thing is fine lets say maybe the Wings picks would be around 20 with Point but without him all of a sudden they're around 10

yeah the other team might be "getting" four picks around 20 but in the world where they didn't have Point the Wings picks would be around 10 so that's the real opportunity cost here

meanwhile in this hypothetical world with Point the Wings are a bubble Playoff team with no real path forward because the defense still sucks and they don't even have a first for the foreseeable future
 

sureWhyNot

Registered User
Jan 24, 2012
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Oh look, fancy words.

Red Wings brass really knows how to sound good. The actual actions though, never seem to back it up.

Yeah. I gave up faith in specifically Holland a while ago.

The drafting hasn’t been spectacular the last 2 years. I know we went the “best player available” route (especially with Zadina) but at the end of the day you need at minimum a legit puck moving dman.

Just look at #1 defensemen over the 6-7 years ago. Either drafted or acquired via a trade for a kings ransom. I don’t know. That’s just how I see it.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,764
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Yeah. I gave up faith in specifically Holland a while ago.

The drafting hasn’t been spectacular the last 2 years. I know we went the “best player available” route (especially with Zadina) but at the end of the day you need at minimum a legit puck moving dman.

Just look at #1 defensemen over the 6-7 years ago. Either drafted or acquired via a trade for a kings ransom. I don’t know. That’s just how I see it.

Way too early to say our scouting hasn't been spectacular. Zadina is doing fine, and is adjusting decently to pro hockey. Veleno is lighting up the Q this season, and Rasmussen is already in the NHL. Just cause he isn't dominating doesn't mean anything at this point, as he is a rookie. When he fills out a little, I think he is going to be fine. He just needs to add a little muscle and have confidence in the fact that he has very good size and I think he will be productive at this level.
 

sureWhyNot

Registered User
Jan 24, 2012
306
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Chicago
Yeah I am not writing anyone off yet. I’m just really hoping we draft a defensemen this year.

I guess my thoughts going into the 2019 draft would be “draft the best defensemen available”.
 
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TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
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Call me crazy but I'm open to the idea of offer sheeting someone this off season. Point, Matthews, or Marner are particularly appetizing because they're division rivals.

Yeah we forfeit a lot of picks, but I'd feel confident that we'd become a playoff team with them + growth from our young core. That means we'd forfeit four mid-late first rounders. I'd much rather have an elite player than those picks.

Also it has to do with the fact that I really like our young nucleus of players right now. On defense Cholowski and Hronek are going to make a big impact fairly soon and we have potential reinforcements in mcisaac and saarijarvi later on. Mantha, AA, bertuzzi have solidified our depth scoring. Larkin is an elite center. Zadina should be a top line Winger at some point,, hopefully elite. Our offer sheeted player will also be elite. If we draft Hughes or kakko that's another elite player, and there are others who have potential at the top of the first round too. That's not to mention Veleno and Rasmussen either. Veleno will be a great 3c at worst. Ehn looks like our future 4c. Rasmussen is a wild card but he'll prob end up being a solid depth scorer like bertuzzi.

Basicslly I'm happy with our depth right now, and I'd accept giving up four first rounders for an elite player to solidify our elite core. Get Larkin into the playoffs in his first season as captain. Give him a reason to stay after his 5 year deal expires. Let's f***in go.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
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Call me crazy but I'm open to the idea of offer sheeting someone this off season. Point, Matthews, or Marner are particularly appetizing because they're division rivals.

Yeah we forfeit a lot of picks, but I'd feel confident that we'd become a playoff team with them + growth from our young core. That means we'd forfeit four mid-late first rounders. I'd much rather have an elite player than those picks.

Like your idea, would just be more happy if there would a defenceman to be offer-sheeted.

Trouba is RFA, if I'm right?

Sheets are possible to any RFAs, right?

Offer Sheet (AAV)Compensation
$1,339,575 or belowNone
Over $1,339,575 to $2,029,593rd
Over $2,029,59 to $4,059,3222nd
Over $4,059,322 to $6,088,9801st, 3rd
Over $6,088,980 to $8,118,6411st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $8,118,641 to $10,148,302(2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $10,148,302(4) 1st
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Something like 9M for Trouba would be a big cap problem for the Jets, but easy money for Red Wings.

We would lose 2020 1st, 2021 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Imo, that a cheap price for a proven 1st pair defenceman.

5-year deal is the maximum term in offer-sheets.
 
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RedWingzz

Everybody loves Raymond
Apr 14, 2009
9,095
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Canada
Like your idea, would just be more happy if there would a defenceman to be offer-sheeted.

Trouba is RFA, if I'm right?

Sheets are possible to any RFAs, right?



Something like 9M for Trouba would be a big cap problem for the Jets, but easy money for Red Wings.

We would lose 2020 1st, 2021 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Imo, that a cheap price for a proven 1st pair defenceman.

5-year deal is the maximum term in offer-sheets.

You really have no idea, do you?

9 million is a cheap price for a #1 defenceman? There is a total of....wait for it......

ONE defenceman in the entire NHL who makes this much. 1 single player. How exactly is that "a cheap price for a proven 1st pair defenceman". Absolute nonsense.
 

TCNorthstars

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
4,281
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Lansing area, MI
Like your idea, would just be more happy if there would a defenceman to be offer-sheeted.

Trouba is RFA, if I'm right?

Sheets are possible to any RFAs, right?



Something like 9M for Trouba would be a big cap problem for the Jets, but easy money for Red Wings.

We would lose 2020 1st, 2021 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Imo, that a cheap price for a proven 1st pair defenceman.

5-year deal is the maximum term in offer-sheets.

Pretty sure you can tender an offer sheet of 7 years. The issue is that the total money is divided by 5 years for compensation purposes.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,840
8,558
Like your idea, would just be more happy if there would a defenceman to be offer-sheeted.

Trouba is RFA, if I'm right?

Sheets are possible to any RFAs, right?



Something like 9M for Trouba would be a big cap problem for the Jets, but easy money for Red Wings.

We would lose 2020 1st, 2021 1st + 2nd + 3rd. Imo, that a cheap price for a proven 1st pair defenceman.

5-year deal is the maximum term in offer-sheets.
Trouba is good, but definitely not elite. So why would I offer all those picks when it's rumored that he wants to come here for free via UFA just one year later?

If this roster was 1-2 pieces away from contention, that's different. But they're not, and I'm not offering all that for Trouba, even if I risk missing out on him altogether.

Keep drafting, keep flipping, and use trades. Karlsson/Matthews is the caliber of player to forfeit multiple draft picks for, not Trouba.
 

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
575
93
So for offer sheets we need to offer high enough that the player signs , also high enough the opposing team will not sign it and if they do could cripple their cap long term. Also factoring in the drafts picks we lose.

So my list of potential players I'd offer with the most amount of picks worth losing would be:

Matthew's: 4 first
Laine: 4 first (another winger yayayaya....but he is an elite scorer).
Nylander: 2 first, 2nd, 3rd.
Point: 2 first, 2nd, 3rd
Trouba: 1st 2nd and 3rd. However since a #1 d is crucial it is worth entertaining bumping into the next bracket and offer 9 or 10m a year losing and extra 1st.

Theres a few others I'd consider like tkachuk and Karlsson(the center for vegas), werenski and burakosvsky.

With our cap we can afford a 6-11m offer sheet player and still get a good free agent or 2.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,840
8,558
So for offer sheets we need to offer high enough that the player signs , also high enough the opposing team will not sign it and if they do could cripple their cap long term. Also factoring in the drafts picks we lose.

So my list of potential players I'd offer with the most amount of picks worth losing would be:

Matthew's: 4 first
Laine: 4 first (another winger yayayaya....but he is an elite scorer).
Nylander: 2 first, 2nd, 3rd.
Point: 2 first, 2nd, 3rd
Trouba: 1st 2nd and 3rd. However since a #1 d is crucial it is worth entertaining bumping into the next bracket and offer 9 or 10m a year losing and extra 1st.

Theres a few others I'd consider like tkachuk and Karlsson(the center for vegas), werenski and burakosvsky.

With our cap we can afford a 6-11m offer sheet player and still get a good free agent or 2.
Scratch Laine from that list. He's the world's best one trick pony, but would rather play Fortnite than help his team out in literally ANY other facet of the game.
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
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Scratch Laine from that list. He's the world's best one trick pony, but would rather play Fortnite than help his team out in literally ANY other facet of the game.
Now we don't want Laine either because he is "one dimensional"?! :laugh:
We are probably the worst team in the NHL and we are saying we don't want a player like Laine who is only 20 years old btw:help:....
 
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Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Now we don't want Laine either because he is "one dimensional" :laugh:
We are probably the worst team in the NHL and we are saying we don't want a player like Laine :help:....
You really don't follow anything in this world other than AA do you? I'd suggest looking at commentary about Laine's season this year, because he may have 25 goals, but even Jets fans are wanting to dump him.

Patrick Laine is one of the worst forwards in the NHL right now

Player Discussion: - Patrik Laine
 

TCNorthstars

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
4,281
1,796
Lansing area, MI
Now we don't want Laine either because he is "one dimensional"?! :laugh:
We are probably the worst team in the NHL and we are saying we don't want a player like Laine who is only 20 years old btw:help:....

There is a difference between not wanting a player and giving up 4 first round picks and giving them a huge salary. Would you give up 4 1st rounders plus pay Laine 10+ million per year?
 

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
575
93
Actually you guys may be right in not wanting to lose 4 first for him.

But I certainly would lose 2 first. He is 20 years old. I just wouldnt do 7 years. Do 3 or 4 years let him be apart of the rebuild. See if he can rebound, if not it's short term, then he can be released.

People that are 20 years old are immature, he has growing to do as a player and a person. But he is well worth the risk.
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
7,864
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There is a difference between not wanting a player and giving up 4 first round picks and giving them a huge salary. Would you give up 4 1st rounders plus pay Laine 10+ million per year?
That's not the only way to get Laine or a player of his caliber
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
7,864
3,768
You really don't follow anything in this world other than AA do you? I'd suggest looking at commentary about Laine's season this year, because he may have 25 goals, but even Jets fans are wanting to dump him.

Patrick Laine is one of the worst forwards in the NHL right now

Player Discussion: - Patrik Laine
Why are you talking about AA again? What's your weird obsession with the guy? We were talking about Laine. That's not the same person. You're welcome for updating you on this little known fact. Btw Laine is 20 years old but I guess he should already be a complete player on both sides of the puck like everyone else in the NHL is beside himself and AA....
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
7,864
3,768
Little Z makes Laine redundant, we have a young kid with a cannon that will adj in time. No Laine!!!
For the right price I'm willing to listen about any player. And Zadina has yet to play in the NHL so not guaranteed he will even become as "terrible" as Laine...
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
7,864
3,768
What, no he doesn’t. Laine is an incredible goal scorer. He would score 40-50 goals a year next to Larkin. I’d happily offersheet him.
Why would he be an incredible scorer? There's a whole thread saying he sucks :sarcasm:... seriously though he is 20 years old growing as a player and would be the best goal scorer the DRW have had since probably Brendan Shanahan.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Why are you talking about AA again? What's your weird obsession with the guy? We were talking about Laine. That's not the same person. You're welcome for updating you on this little known fact. Btw Laine is 20 years old but I guess he should already be a complete player on both sides of the puck like everyone else in the NHL is beside himself and AA....

Because you heavily implied AA with the word either, which would make sense it was AA given your defense of him when he's called such. So don't pretend you weren't the one who brought him into this by implication.

Also, its not about being complete player, its that there are real questions if he even cares most nights on the ice, or if hockey is how he pays to play fortnite.
 

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