Jim Rutherford Needs to Go

[PensPlz]

No, WE are out.

Of a 1st round draft pick that is.

Potential lottery winning draft pick.

 

[SEALBound]

Why is he trading our 1st again?

 

[Turin]

I don’t know why people just ignore loterry protection. What’s the problem if JR trades a lottery protected first for a good player?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sundqvist was exactly the same player for the Pens. He was a grinder/possession guy with some slight scoring touch, but that wasn't good enough for the Pens back then. I posted on these boards that moving him was a mistake and was ridiculed for it.

Sundqvist looked like Carter Rowney during the bulk of his Pens' tenure. Let's not re-write history by making it sound like the Sundqvist on the Blues is what he's always been.

 

[Pens x]

Sundqvist looked like Carter Rowney during the bulk of his Pens' tenure. Let's not re-write history by making it sound like the Sundqvist on the Blues is what he's always been.

They only let him play in 28 games before they traded him. We ended up dumping Reaves only a few months later and now St. Louis has a solid 3C. If that wasn’t bad enough, we gave St. Louis our first round pick for their second pick, and we end up drafting Lauzon who has since retired.

It was a very bad trade at the time that looks worse and worse each day. You can’t blame JR for Lauzon retiring, but this was still one giant f*** up by an awful GM.

 

[pokey10]

They only let him play in 28 games before they traded him. We ended up dumping Reaves only a few months later and now St. Louis has a solid 3C. If that wasn’t bad enough, we gave St. Louis our first round pick for their second pick, and we end up drafting Lauzon who has since retired.

It was a very bad trade at the time that looks worse and worse each day. You can’t blame JR for Lauzon retiring, but this was still one giant **** up by an awful GM.

You cant justify this to fit the argument against JR. We basically traded back and the pick had some bad luck with head injuries, ala Despres. DS is a bottom 6 center, if that trade is what is pushing you over the edge for JR then im not sure how happy you'd be with 3/4 of the GM's in the league...

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

They only let him play in 28 games before they traded him. We ended up dumping Reaves only a few months later and now St. Louis has a solid 3C. If that wasn’t bad enough, we gave St. Louis our first round pick for their second pick, and we end up drafting Lauzon who has since retired.

It was a very bad trade at the time that looks worse and worse each day. You can’t blame JR for Lauzon retiring, but this was still one giant **** up by an awful GM.

Sunny was provided the opportunity to seize the 4C. After immediately being called up he looked pretty good. Then we got healthy, he didn't play much. Of course we had injuries again and was called up.
When he was given the opportunity to recreate what he had shown previously and he didn't do it. Then he himself got injured and didn't look right.

We traded him to StL and he was nothing for a good spell, then shot at a ridiculously high percentage and now people are being disingenuous when they say "I knew he was great all along"

Look I hate JR as much as anyone, but this revisionist history is straight up BS

 

[Shady Machine]

Sundqvist looked like Carter Rowney during the bulk of his Pens' tenure. Let's not re-write history by making it sound like the Sundqvist on the Blues is what he's always been.

Doesn't mean the Pens should have traded him for Reaves.

 

[Pens x]

Sunny was provided the opportunity to seize the 4C. After immediately being called up he looked pretty good. Then we got healthy, he didn't play much. Of course we had injuries again and was called up.
When he was given the opportunity to recreate what he had shown previously and he didn't do it. Then he himself got injured and didn't look right.

We traded him to StL and he was nothing for a good spell, then shot at a ridiculously high percentage and now people are being disingenuous when they say "I knew he was great all along"

Look I hate JR as much as anyone, but this revisionist history is straight up BS

I hate JR and this trade wasn’t even that bad compared to other signings and trades. But look at this seemingly minor trade and the repercussions from it. It’s a pretty disastrous trade in hindsight. It’s just yet another example of how awful JR is at his job. Of course you couldn’t predict the injury issues, but still this was a big mistake.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I hate JR and this trade wasn’t even that bad compared to other signings and trades. But look at this seemingly minor trade and the repercussions from it. It’s a pretty disastrous trade in hindsight. It’s just yet another example of how awful JR is at his job. Of course you couldn’t predict the injury issues, but still this was a big mistake.

Let me know when you are done with that crystal ball so I can borrow it

Trading for Reaves (not the assets given up for it) should be the focal point. This is exactly when JR started to go off the rails and deviate what was successful.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I don’t know why people just ignore loterry protection. What’s the problem if JR trades a lottery protected first for a good player?

Ya I think I reached the point where I`m no longer comfortable with GMJR moving young players and picks for what "he calls good players"
Lottery protected or not, this franchise going forward is in no more shape to move 1st rounders

 

[Jacob]

Sundqvist looked like Carter Rowney during the bulk of his Pens' tenure. Let's not re-write history by making it sound like the Sundqvist on the Blues is what he's always been.

He only played 28 games and was 2-3 years younger than ZAR, Blueger & Simon are now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think there is middle ground re: Sundqvist. I agree he didn't make a huge impression in his NHL games and that ultimately he isn't exactly a big impact player or anything. But it's also true that it was a very limited sample size, he was and still is quite young and on top of the entire trade being generally wrongheaded and contrary to this team's prior success, tossing a very young prospect at a position of value into the mix was pretty dumb. Especially considering the near-obsessive amount of wheeling and dealing this team seems to do over the years for depth centers. They are currently paying Bjugstad 4M a year and he is a constant source of trade speculation and hasn't exactly stepped into the role seamlessly. I'm not necessarily saying Sundqvist could be a surefire 3C here... only that it illustrates more grasping at straws and just chucking shit against a wall to see what sticks. And in the process losing a cheap, serviceable player that still may have some headroom.

 

[EightyOne]

I thought Sundqvist was useless. But I'm a moron.

The trade is easily where you can confirm JR lost the plot.

Mistakes since then.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don’t know why people just ignore loterry protection. What’s the problem if JR trades a lottery protected first for a good player?

Ville Heinola was a non-lottery first-rounder earlier this summer. He is now a top-4 D-man for the Jets.

WE, of all teams, need to stop trading away first-rounders for players.

We need to trade roster players right now.

 

[USMC607]

Ah yes. Here it is.

Pre B2B ships HFPensBoards.

It is on the Horizon.

We are in the argumentative stage right now.

Cant wait to see the window shut for sure depression stage.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think there is middle ground re: Sundqvist. I agree he didn't make a huge impression in his NHL games and that ultimately he isn't exactly a big impact player or anything. But it's also true that it was a very limited sample size, he was and still is quite young and on top of the entire trade being generally wrongheaded and contrary to this team's prior success, tossing a very young prospect at a position of value into the mix was pretty dumb. Especially considering the near-obsessive amount of wheeling and dealing this team seems to do over the years for depth centers. They are currently paying Bjugstad 4M a year and he is a constant source of trade speculation and hasn't exactly stepped into the role seamlessly. I'm not necessarily saying Sundqvist could be a surefire 3C here... only that it illustrates more grasping at straws and just chucking **** against a wall to see what sticks. And in the process losing a cheap, serviceable player that still may have some headroom.

I would also add that the Pens had absolute dick for center prospects (players they were actually developing to be centers). So even if Sunny wasn't much, he meant a lot to THIS organization and it was worth being patient on, particularly since they were searching high and low for a Bones replacement.

 

[USMC607]

All in All 3 cups is alot better than most teams.

If our window has closed, or is about to.
Then so be it. It was fun minus the wasted 2010-2015 yrs.

I'm actually looking forward somewhat to the rebuilding yrs as long as it is done the right way.

If it's not then ugh....

Havent been super into the whole draft and scouting process in a long time since we almost never had a 1st let alone a high one.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I would also add that the Pens had absolute dick for center prospects (players they were actually developing to be centers). So even if Sunny wasn't much, he meant a lot to THIS organization and it was worth being patient on, particularly since they were searching high and low for a Bones replacement.

Sullivan destroyed the Reaves trade in my humble opinion, but let's not pretend that he would not have destroyed Sundqvist's value as well. Sullivan hates anyone who does not skate like prime Scotty Hamilton, so I really do not think that Sundqvist would have amounted to anything here. He found lightning in a bottle in Craig Berube and then took off. Good for him. It's also easier to be a third-line center when you have three second-line centers ahead of you like he has in St. Louis.

I dare say Jared McCann is every bit the third-line center that Sundqvist is right now, and a much better fit for this coach (hopefully McCann will be every bit as good when we pull the plug on this coach).

 

[Shady Machine]

Sullivan destroyed the Reaves trade in my humble opinion, but let's not pretend that he would not have destroyed Sundqvist's value as well. Sullivan hates anyone who does not skate like prime Scotty Hamilton, so I really do not think that Sundqvist would have amounted to anything here. He found lightning in a bottle in Craig Berube and then took off. Good for him. It's also easier to be a third-line center when you have three second-line centers ahead of you like he has in St. Louis.

I dare say Jared McCann is every bit the third-line center that Sundqvist is right now, and a much better fit for this coach (hopefully McCann will be every bit as good when we pull the plug on this coach).

I'm not pining for Sunny at this point and agree that McCann is a better fit. Just took way too many assets to get there and I think Sunny could have done well here in the interim. While I agree Sully likes fast players, Bones was a mediocre speedster, but he worked well with wingers that could skate.

 

[Penguinsyay]

I disagree with people saying the window for the Pens has closed. I still think we are a good 2-3 trades (and a healthy Malkin and co) away from being competitive again. Hell, I'd rather trade futures and make a push while Crosby/Malkin are still top-tier players than the "begin the rebuild now" attitude people have adopted. Let the rebuild happen when you don't have two generational talents still playing at a high level. Furthermore, I don't think the supporting cast is a such a lost cause. Yes, we need to magically get some puck-moving talent on the back end and get rid of Guds/JJ, and maybe one more move to help solidify a fast-skating, puck-moving identity that won us those cups in the first place. Such moves aren't completely outside of the realm of possibility, we need something like the Daley/Hagelin moves JR pulled off back in the day.

It is a damn shame we are in this position though. This level of decline should never have happened in the first place. Its like JR found a formula for the Pens that worked and then he threw it out of the window, only to realize his mistakes years later after screwing everything up. But at this point, you might as well just let him finish his "course correcting," I feel like if they were going to fire him they should have done it at the end of last season, if not a year ago, not while he is seemingly realizing and in the middle of attempting to correct his mistakes.

 

[BeatenLikeRentedMule]

I disagree with people saying the window for the Pens has closed. I still think we are a good 2-3 trades (and a healthy Malkin and co) away from being competitive again. Hell, I'd rather trade futures and make a push while Crosby/Malkin are still top-tier players than the "begin the rebuild now" attitude people have adopted. Let the rebuild happen when you don't have two generational talents still playing at a high level. Furthermore, I don't think the supporting cast is a such a lost cause. Yes, we need to magically get some puck-moving talent on the back end and get rid of Guds/JJ, and maybe one more move to help solidify a fast-skating, puck-moving identity that won us those cups in the first place. Such moves aren't completely outside of the realm of possibility, we need something like the Daley/Hagelin moves JR pulled off back in the day.

It is a damn shame we are in this position though. This level of decline should never have happened in the first place. Its like JR found a formula for the Pens that worked and then he threw it out of the window, only to realize his mistakes years later after screwing everything up. But at this point, you might as well just let him finish his "course correcting," I feel like if they were going to fire him they should have done it at the end of last season, if not a year ago, not while he is seemingly realizing and in the middle of attempting to correct his mistakes.

Don't hold your breath on a healthy Malkin. Injuries are an annual thing for this guy nowadays.

 

[Andy99]

Don't hold your breath on a healthy Malkin. Injuries are an annual thing for this guy nowadays.

i wish people would stop saying this like it’s an aging thing...his first game as a Penguin, didn’t he break his collarbone? He’s rarely played 80+ games ever in his career...

 

[KIRK]

I'm not pining for Sunny at this point and agree that McCann is a better fit. Just took way too many assets to get there and I think Sunny could have done well here in the interim. While I agree Sully likes fast players, Bones was a mediocre speedster, but he worked well with wingers that could skate.

Yes, but Bones was a vet. And, however one comes down on this and other Sully questions, JR needs to go.

 

[Ryder71]

Yes, but Bones was a vet. And, however one comes down on this and other Sully questions, JR needs to go.

And who takes the helm then?