Jim Rutherford "likely out in Pittsburgh"

[Edges7*]

Lovejoy for Despres is exactly as bad as it appears on the surface, if not worse. Despres is a better defender than Lovejoy is today...and is far more useful in the other zones.

Seriously, you folks act as if we traded Scott Stevens.

See where Despres is in 2 years.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Seriously, you folks act as if we traded Scott Stevens.

See where Despres is in 2 years.

If its anything like the Ladd trade, in 2 years, Despres will have won a Cup in Anaheim and be well on his way to the captainship of another team.

Meanwhile, JR will give Lovejoy a raise on his current contract, despite not actually getting much better, mostly because he's physical. You'll be stuck with that contract until it becomes an albatross, and in the final years, you'll finally be able to move it because you retained a large chunk of salary.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Seriously, you folks act as if we traded Scott Stevens.

See where Despres is in 2 years.

No, we traded a #4/5 defenseman with #2/3 upside for a #5 who has been outplayed by Taylor ****ing Chorney.

 

[Edges7*]

No, we traded a #4/5 defenseman with #2/3 upside for a #5 who has been outplayed by Taylor ****ing Chorney.

To date, Taylor ****ing Chorney's worst game here has been better then Despres' best game here.

 

[Number 57]

Sure, Crosby and Malkin had sub-par years, but that's more on coaching. Also, Sid almost won the scoring title still... Fleury had a solid year and Letang was on his way to the Conn Smythe.

It's not Rutherford's fault if his star players underperform or if the whole blueline gets injured.

You're telling me Maatta-Martin-Ehrhoff-Letang with Fleury backstopping isn't a solid D ? You're an ignorant...

His only bad move was Lovejoy for Despres.

Everyone cried for joy when he acquired Perron ''finally a worthy winger for Crosby''. It did not work out... but it was still a great move.

The Dupuis injury he couldnt control either... Dup always had chemistry with the big guns and was on his way to a solid year...

Dupuis Crosby Perron
Kunitz Malkin Hornqvist
Downie Sutter Comeau

That's not a great top-9 ? Really ?

Rutherford did everything he could, but everything backfired, mostly bad luck. Not his fault. Only bad move is Lovejoy.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

To date, Taylor ****ing Chorney's worst game here has been better then Despres' best game here.

That's just patently false. Despres had some glorious #1-esque games this season for us, complete with ice time to match.

 

[CellarDweller0]

Hornqvist > Neal
The lovejoy deal was bad but not as bad as people make it
MAF has been playing the best hockey of his career thepast 2 years so how in the world was it bad?

My thinking was inline with this as well. Thought maybe I was off but glad to see someone else (maybe others) think the same.

 

[Extra Texture]

Rossi has been ragging on Pens brass non-stop for the past year, and good on him for doing so because they obviously deserve it.

He's also carried water for equally questionable decision making from other Pens brass in the past, when they probably deserved it even more.

 

[Extra Texture]

That's just patently false. Despres had some glorious #1-esque games this season for us, complete with ice time to match.

Preach man. The revisionist history backflips some people do over that deal is pretty astounding.

"We'll its not like he's Bobby Orr or something!" isnt a justification for losing up a trade, giving up a promising cost-controlled young player for less than his worth, or bringing back a defensive retread who was given up for nothing.

People just dont get it. Its not that he was some franchise savior. Its that he was worth alot more (to us and to another team) than we got. Terrible asset management especially when you consider the defensive makeup of this team in this series.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

It's pretty hard to hit the ceiling when you can't got off of the floor.

I'm curious as to what you see in Despres game? His inability to win battles? His constant turnovers? His inability to make a quick, let alone, accurate pass out of the zone? His constant fumbles at the blue-line?

Exactly what do you see that makes you believe he has upside potential?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you haven't watched a second of Des on the Ducks.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

As a neutral fan, I liked Rutherford's moves. Erhoff was easy though, he wanted a chance at the cup.

Dealing Neal for Hornqvist though, that was really good. Players for Crosby and Malkin, you want complimentary guys who do the non-scoring things excessively well. Thay way you can pay them less than guys who are going to put up 60 points with Crosby and Malkin. Hornqvist is that kind of player, is much cheaper than Neal and they got a young guy out of it. Underrated move.

Acquiring Perron was also good. Pens are clearly in win now mode. A late round pick will not contribute before Crosby/Malkin window closes.

I don't understand Despres for Lovejoy, but that didn't single handedly sink the Pens ship. Injuries to multiple key players did.

Blaming JR is the equivalent of blaming Dan Bylsma last year. He didn't make this team. He changed some of the spare parts.

People just dont get it. Its not that he was some franchise savior. Its that he was worth alot more (to us and to another team) than we got. Terrible asset management especially when you consider the defensive makeup of this team in this series.

The reason people are mad right now is because the Pens are losing, and may very well lose, their opening round in the playoffs.

Which has little to do with a minor trade between two currently similar players, albeit one who is younger and has a higher ceiling.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

He has made three notable moves since he was hired I suppose:

1) Traded James Neal for Hornqvist + Spalling.

This trade is meh. He got someone for Crosby, but lost someone for Malkin

2) Traded Lovejoy for Despres.

He lost this trade and it makes no sense

3) Extended MAF.

Poorly timed extension to give out. Could turn out bad for the Pens in the years to come.

Wrong.

The way MAF played this year and this POs he could have easily gotten 6M+. He's the only reason he Pens made the POs and aren't getting blown out every game.

 

[Extra Texture]

Imagine if the Pens had packaged their first rounder with Neal instead of moving one, then the other...

Yeah, wow, then they could have gotten two young cost controlled wingers from a team with a death wish to gut its wing depth, right?

Or wait, better yet they would have gotten a single superstar winger to toggle between two star centers, so that they could be back in the same boat they were before the trades?

Hornqvist is a god send for them. Maybe not as prolific as Neal, but his style of play, attitude, consistency, virtually everything else about him is more befitting of what the Pens need. Spalling hasnt been outstanding, but he provides depth. And maybe it was just my personal feelings, but I felt that Neal's style and attitude was everything wrong with the playoff Penguins.

Perron hasnt gotten going after his early start, but the same was true of Neal and they have another year to see his game in Pitt. His game isnt as physical as PH's but he still works hard and has skill for days. Neal didnt get going either when he first arrived in Pitt, but then he hit his stride.

Basically, for Neal and a 1st (15-23 range) and Klinkhammer to get Hornqvist, Perron (playing up to his potential) and Spaling is a swap I would make every time.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I know he would be a JR retread, and JR loves retreads, but I always envisioned Jiri Tlusty playing very well with either Crosby or Malkin. He's what Pascal Dupuis was when he first came to the Pens. Slightly above average at everything, little to distinguish himself from the pack. Though Tlusty finished 6th in goals in the League during the lockout year, so he has talent (that year was clearly an aberration).

 

[Extra Texture]

As a neutral fan, I liked Rutherford's moves. Erhoff was easy though, he wanted a chance at the cup.

Dealing Neal for Hornqvist though, that was really good. Players for Crosby and Malkin, you want complimentary guys who do the non-scoring things excessively well. Thay way you can pay them less than guys who are going to put up 60 points with Crosby and Malkin. Hornqvist is that kind of player, is much cheaper than Neal and they got a young guy out of it. Underrated move.

Acquiring Perron was also good. Pens are clearly in win now mode. A late round pick will not contribute before Crosby/Malkin window closes.

I don't understand Despres for Lovejoy, but that didn't single handedly sink the Pens ship. Injuries to multiple key players did.

Blaming JR is the equivalent of blaming Dan Bylsma last year. He didn't make this team. He changed some of the spare parts.



The reason people are mad right now is because the Pens are losing, and may very well lose, their opening round in the playoffs.

Which has little to do with a minor trade between two currently similar players, albeit one who is younger and has a higher ceiling.

No arguments here, man. Not with any of it. Except I had had enough of DB because he refused to adjust or change anything about the team game to game or within games. There was never a different approach from him.

The reason I'm just frustrated is some people seem to be taking the piss out of Despres in an effort to justify the move. I just wish they would stop because everyone realizes it was a mistake. They got back an asset they dumped for very little in exchange for a first round pick. And made the team worse.

 

[Edges7*]

That's just patently false. Despres had some glorious #1-esque games this season for us, complete with ice time to match.

I'm done with this conversation. Despres was a #1 draft pick who, 5 years later, no one knows what his upside is or if he even has one.

That is the fact/book on Despres. Deal with it. Don't. I couldn't care less at this point.

 

[Edges7*]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you haven't watched a second of Des on the Ducks.

You'd fall off.

 

[Edges7*]

No arguments here, man. Not with any of it. Except I had had enough of DB because he refused to adjust or change anything about the team game to game or within games. There was never a different approach from him.

Bylsma absolutely hated just about every 4th liner that he was given. He begged Shero to dump Talbot and couldn't wave good-bye to him fast enough. If he would have had his way, he would have rolled two lines spelled every third shift with a third line.

No. I was never a fan. I was very unhappy when they fired Therrien.

 

[PensFreak]

I'm done with this conversation. Despres was a #1 draft pick who, 5 years later, no one knows what his upside is or if he even has one.

That is the fact/book on Despres. Deal with it. Don't. I couldn't care less at this point.

Despres was most definitely an upgrade for the Ducks. He has also been one of our better dman in the playoffs and hits EVERYTHING. He has thrown some bone rattling hits and has been great on the top D pairing with Fowler.

Pens fans disagree with you. Ducks fans disagree with you. Defensemen take a long time to develop. He's 23 and playing on the Ducks' top pairing, and doing exceptionally well by all accounts. Except yours, somehow. He wheel your girl while he was in town or something? Your irrational, singleminded despise for Despres is ludicrous at this point.

This is the bottom line. We traded a #4 guy who may turn into a good 2-3 in coming years for a guy who will struggle as the #5, and probably shouldn't even play for the Pens next season.

Letang
Maatta
Cole
Pouliot

Are all clearly better now, and they would be better served having Dumoulin and Harrington in the lineup over Lovejoy or Scuderi. But, Lovejoy and Scuderi will play. And look awful. As usual.

 

[Edges7*]

He's 23 and playing on the Ducks' top pairing, and doing exceptionally well by all accounts.

Again, my understanding of the Ducks' depth chart has Bechimin (sp) and Lindholm as the *top* pairing. If I'm wrong, so be it. And Despres is ~24.

edit

[mod]
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2009e.html

Seems as if some other 1st round draft picks don't have Despres' question marks. Guess they missed your memo.

 

[Edges7*]

PeBut, ...Scuderi will play. And look awful. As usual.

Thanks for proving my point. Scuderi had a very solid season and has played very well, so far, in the playoffs.

 

[PensFreak]

Thanks for proving my point. Scuderi had a very solid season and has played very well, so far, in the playoffs.

You are probably the only person who thinks so. Admittedly, he hasn't been the worst defenseman, that has probably been Lovejoy.

I'm not sure how posting the draft class of 2009 helps either argument though? He's a relatively solid draft choice at 30 there, especially when you have no idea how any of those players are going to progress.

 

[BobDobolina]

Who's the new flavor of the month GM-to-be to replace him? Paul Fentons name always gets mentioned in these things so is it his turn finally?

 

[PensFreak]

Who's the new flavor of the month GM-to-be to replace him? Paul Fentons name always gets mentioned in these things so is it his turn finally?

I really haven't been upset with Rutherford. The only 'bad' deals I see him having made are Winnik and the Lovejoy -Despres trade. Hornqvist has been worth giving up Neal, Ehrhoff was a decent pickup, Comeau overachieved greatly until he got hurt. Lapierre has been great in the playoffs, Cole for Bortuzzo was great-Cole has been one of our best D in the playoffs. Perron looked like a good pickup at the time, but just hasn't quite panned out. Extended Fleury in what is looking like a steal of a contract. All in all, he's been pretty solid.

The two biggest issues are that we have 7 million suck into Scuderi and Kunitz, for two more years. If Dupuis isn't himself when he returns, that turns into 11 million dollars of cap space that is essentially wasted. Haha. We may be spending 11 million dollars next season on two third/fourth line wingers and a #7 defenseman.

 

[Voight]

Sure, Crosby and Malkin had sub-par years, but that's more on coaching. Also, Sid almost won the scoring title still... Fleury had a solid year and Letang was on his way to the Conn Smythe.
.

You mean Norris here, right?

I know he would be a JR retread, and JR loves retreads, but I always envisioned Jiri Tlusty playing very well with either Crosby or Malkin. He's what Pascal Dupuis was when he first came to the Pens. Slightly above average at everything, little to distinguish himself from the pack. Though Tlusty finished 6th in goals in the League during the lockout year, so he has talent (that year was clearly an aberration).

Dupuis was never "slightly above average" at anything. He was a 3rd liner that fortunately meshed with Sid and got himself a nice contract and a 59 point year out of it.