Jim Robson Division Finals - Baltimore Skipjacks (1) vs St John's Maple Leafs (3)

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Baltimore Skipjacks (1)

"Hockey is figure skating in a war zone."

Coach: John Tortorella
Captains: Stevens, Clarke, Day

Brendan Shanahan - Bobby Clarke (A) - Reggie Leach
Vic Hadfield
- Connor McDavid - Yvan Cournoyer
Nick Metz
- Steve Kasper - Tomas Sandstrom
Kirk Maltby - Tod Sloan - Mike Foligno
+ Reggie Fleming, Ron Sutter

Scott Stevens (C) - Rob Blake
Hap Day
(A) - Gary Suter
Alex Gusev - Gennady Tsygankov

+ Billy Coutu

Billy Smith

CuJo

PP1: Shanahan - McDavid - Cournoyer - Blake - Suter
PP2: Hadfield - Clarke - Leach - Stevens - Gusev
PK1: Clarke - Metz - Stevens - Day - Smith
PK2: Kasper - Maltby - Blake - Tsygankov - Smith


Estimated minutes chart:

PlayerESPPPKTotal
Clarke153422
Shanahan15419
Cournoyer14418
McDavid14418
Leach14317
Hadfield13316
Metz10414
Kasper10313
Sandstrom1010
Maltby7310
Sloan88
Foligno88
1382114
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerESPPPKTotal
Stevens163423
Blake164323
Day16420
Suter16420
Tsygankov14317
Gusev14317
921414
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


VS


St.John's Maple Leafs (3)

St_johns_maple_leafs_200x200.png


Coach: Cecil Hart

Michel Goulet-Mario Lemieux-Rick Tocchet
Steve Shutt-Jacques lemaire-Martin st.louis
Shayne Corson-Kris Draper-Jean pronovost
Craig Simpson-Tyler Seguin-Nicklas Sundstrom
Scott Gomez-


Bill Quackenbush-Doug Wilson
Andrei Markov-ulf Samuelsson
Willie Mitchell-dick redmond

extra: Kenny Jonsson

chuck Rayner
Mike liut
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
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Special teams for the maple leafs

pp 1; Goulet-Lemieux-St.louis-Wilson-Markov
PP 2; Shutt-Lemaire-Tocchet-Redmond-Quackenbush

PK 1; Draper-Sundstrom-Quackenbush-Mitchell
PK 2; Lemaire-Pronovost-Samuelsson- Wilson
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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Can Baltimore limit Lemieux?

That is the series.

Mario gets agitated when physically harassed. A 5'11 Lithuanian famously needled him constantly and Mario demanded the Pens acquire him to stop the abuse.

To wit, the Skipjacks are built to make the superstar's life difficult. Clarke is dirty nasty, Kasper famously shadowed Gretzky. Stevens-Blake have an ideal strength and size combo to take him on, open ice hits, hip checks, Day's relentless checking and Suter's brutal stickwork. And no one bulls Battlin' Billy in the crease. This is not a series Lemieux would enjoy.

Mario won 2 cups in 17 years. This probably ain't one of them. He doesn't have the supporting cast to complement him.
 
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tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Lemieux vs. Clarke is a battle I think that will be fun to watch. That matchup pits one of the best offensive centres ever vs. Probably the top defensive centre ever. I think Lemieuxs talents will be enough to overcome Clarke.

My question for your team is Connor Mcdavid. Yes,he’s a great talent but is he great enough for 2nd line duty, even in a 40 team ATD? I’m not so sure eSpecially when he’s going to be matched up vs. Jacques Lemaire. We shall see what happens,
 

Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
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I think Bobby Clarke and the Baltimore defense absolutely can limit Lemieux.

The question is, can they score going the other way. Clarke is ok offensively. Shanahan is probably ok as well. Leach is horrid - easily the worst first liner in the draft, likely worst top-6er.
 
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tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
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Yeah, Leach is a questionable 1st liner here no matter the size of the draft. I know tocchet is on my 1st line but that’s to protect Lemieux, what role will leach play?
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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My question for your team is Connor Mcdavid. Yes,he’s a great talent but is he great enough for 2nd line duty, even in a 40 team ATD?
Dreakmur, TDMM and HT18 have beat that drum this playoffs.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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Conn Smythe Leach's PLAYOFF record is better than anyone on the other team, clearly, in terms of peak years.

And Leach has his center Clarke for chemistry!

And Yvan Cournoyer & Tomas Sandstrom at 2nd & 3rd RW outperformed Martin St. Louis & Jean Pronovost in the playoffs!

And our 3rd center MacLeish led all Flyers in scoring in BOTH Stanley Cup championships.
 
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Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
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Orillia, Ontario
Yeah, Leach is a questionable 1st liner here no matter the size of the draft. I know tocchet is on my 1st line but that’s to protect Lemieux, what role will leach play?

Tocchet isn't great on a 1st line, but he's a much better scorer than Leach at even strength, and he actually provides non-offensive value.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
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Yeah, 3rd line Baltimore pivot:

Kasper is "the Ghost", shadowing Gretzky effectively.

Fourth line? Sloan. A 70 vs.x, better than most bottom sixers.

(Gee, Dreakmur, a surprise you pipe up here.)
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
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Dreakmur, TDMM and HT18 have beat that drum this playoffs.

I've been beating the drum of "still not sure what I think about McDavid here." Pretty lame drum.

I don't think we should be shackled to a 10-year or even 7-year standard for a player as special as McDavid, but we shouldn't totally ignore the lack of depth in his career, either.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
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2nd centers include Roenick, Nieuwendyk, Watson, Barkov, Stanfield, Turgeon, Tkaczuk, Nedomansky, Petrov, Laprade, Starshinov....
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
8,625
Ontario
Can Baltimore limit Lemieux?

That is the series.

Mario gets agitated when physically harassed. A 5'11 Lithuanian famously needled him constantly and Mario demanded the Pens acquire him to stop the abuse.

To wit, the Skipjacks are built to make the superstar's life difficult. Clarke is dirty nasty, Kasper famously shadowed Gretzky. Stevens-Blake have an ideal strength and size combo to take him on, open ice hits, hip checks, Day's relentless checking and Suter's brutal stickwork. And no one bulls Battlin' Billy in the crease. This is not a series Lemieux would enjoy.

Mario won 2 cups in 17 years. This probably ain't one of them. He doesn't have the supporting cast to complement him.

Mario Lemieux is my favorite player of all-time. But you’re correct in saying this would NOT be a series Mario would enjoy. Baltimore was built to deal with and limit the effect of a player like Mario.

It will come down to how people will judge our overall scoring ability and McDavid’s fit on our 2nd line. We’ve already listed our reasons, nothing else we say will sway opinions, IMO.

McDavid was drafted and placed on our 2nd line considering the speed fit with Cournoyer and the fact that his peak, although his career is still young, was far superior to anyone left available at that point. McDavid is special and his peak is already elite.

Reggie Leach was drafted to complete a reimagining of a real-life line that enjoyed actual success. He had real life chemistry with Bobby Clarke and he performed well in the playoffs.

Those are the reasons. No need for us to overthink it and analyze it to the point of writing a novel on here about it.

The voters will determine the series. This is a team that was built for playoff hockey (even if light on overall offensive firepower obviously...but that’s not Baltimore’s style) and are lead by Bobby Clarke, Scott Stevens, Hap Day and Billy Smith. Plus warriors like Shanny and Gary Suter. Chippy players in Sandstrom, Foligno, Hadfield. Rob Blake will play a big role. Agitators like the aforementioned Sandstrom, Maltby, Kasper, Metz.

The best PK group of forwards in the draft.

The identity with this team is clear.

And quite frankly, even if we don’t match the offensive firepower of other teams, it is quite silly that the #1 seed was taken to game 7 OT by the team that was voted as the 4th place seed a week earlier in the opening round. And I liked zombies team, but c’mon.

I figured McDavid would be a selection that was loved or hated. No in between. It is what it is. If people penalize us for that, so be it.

But it should be clear to everyone that Baltimore wasn’t built to destroy teams offensively. They were built to best you in other ways, and the hope is that they score more than you, even if the games are decided by a single goal in low scoring affairs.

This series best player is Mario Lemieux. I think we can all agree that Baltimore is NOT a club that Mario will be all that effective against. And I love Mario.

So if St. John’s is going to win, it won’t be because of Mario. Let’s get that out of the way early.
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
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We should just draft, and then immediately award the ATD title yearly to the team with the highest overall VsX. Because that seems to be what this thing is turning into.

Let’s vote for the most active posters who write novels about their teams and why they will win, while citing VsX stats every paragraph. No need to actually consider anything else, just the fancy stats. That tells us who we should vote for.

Real life chemistry? An actual great stylistic fit? A team with a specific identity built for playoff hockey? Doesn’t matter, team B has a better overall fancy stat percentage number. They’re clearly superior.
 
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Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
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Orillia, Ontario
Real life chemistry? An actual great stylistic fit? A team with a specific identity built for playoff hockey? Doesn’t matter, team B has a better overall fancy stat percentage number. They’re clearly superior.

There's a balance between style and stats. Pretty tough to really evaluate offensive ability by using anything outside statistics.
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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There's a balance between style and stats. Pretty tough to really evaluate offensive ability by using anything outside statistics.

I disagree completely and why you don't see me just doing line by line generalized VsX overviews. There are plenty of times doing that would help me and vice versa. I just happen to think it's only one slice to the pie.

In real life certain players are in better positions to score. Hell, every player was in some level of better/worse conditions to score. You want to know why Ziggy Palffy didn't have a better VsX? He played on terrible teams. Mostly gawd awful rosters. You can't quantify that in numbers but that doesn't mean you (or anyone for that matter) should just plug hard numbers in and then say, "well, that's basically the best we can do". Put Palffy on say the Avalanche and I think he's an 85-90 VsX player post career. He was that talented/skilled. People just didn't get to see it much and those who did saw Palffy skating with a lot of low hanging fruit. He's not Jagr, obviously. But like BB (IMO accurately) states about Cournoyer, conditions can absolutely impact statistical output, suppress superior skill. Conversely being in the right place (Ken Hodge) can inflate an inferior player's offensive resume.
 

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