Line Combos: Jets Projected line up next season

Jack722

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Been banging my Perreault drum since forever but I believe you put Perreault with another decent driver and someone who can find the net and he has a bit of a revival. I think something like Harkins - Copp - Perreault would look good. Maybe Vesalainen instead?

Perreault's not what he once was but he's still a pretty decent playmaker, he just suffers when he gets behind the play. I don't think Copp-Lowry suits his game at all.
 
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10Ducky10

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The top 6 is a given and I would think Gus has a good chance at making the team...

Harkins Roslo Appleton
Gus Lowry Copper
MP in the pressbox and ready to go in for an injured player. If Gus isn't ready and neither is KV, play MP in that spot.
If KV is ready, I'd like to see what he can do on Roslo's wing.

This bottom 6 can play 25 minutes a game easily.
 

Weezeric

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The top 6 is a given and I would think Gus has a good chance at making the team...

Harkins Roslo Appleton
Gus Lowry Copper
MP in the pressbox and ready to go in for an injured player. If Gus isn't ready and neither is KV, play MP in that spot.
If KV is ready, I'd like to see what he can do on Roslo's wing.

This bottom 6 can play 25 minutes a game easily.

I don’t understand why anyone would want this. Why do we want Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers and Connor playing 16-18 mins?
 
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10Ducky10

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I don’t understand why anyone would want this. Why do we want Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers and Connor playing 16-18 mins?
18 minutes is fine if you ask me...they'll be well rested for the playoffs......how many do you think they should play?
 

KingBogo

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18 minutes is fine if you ask me...they'll be well rested for the playoffs......how many do you think they should play?
There were 82 forwards in the league that played more than 18:00 TOI last season. Balancing ice time is great in theory but teams that are best able to do it have 3rd lines like Tampa. If we end up playing in a Canadian division next season Edmonton will continue to ride McDavid and Dri hard who both are in the 22 minute range and ahead of Scheifele. Toronto will continue riding Matthews and Marner hard, both in the 21 minute range. This means you are giving up 4-6 extra shifts a night where these types of players get to feast on much weaker competition. I'm all for having 3rd and 4th lines help carrying the load, but you need the talent that can handle it. The Jets are far from the worst teams that ride their top forwards the hardest. We have 2 player in the top 31 and that is Scheifele and Connor. Both Edmonton and Toronto have 3 players in the top 31.
 
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Weezeric

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There were 82 forwards in the league that played more than 18:00 TOI last season. Balancing ice time is great in theory but teams that are best able to do it have 3rd lines like Tampa. If we end up playing in a Canadian division next season Edmonton will continue to ride McDavid and Dri hard who both are in the 22 minute range and ahead of Scheifele. Toronto will continue riding Matthews and Marner hard, both in the 21 minute range. This means you are giving up 4-6 extra shifts a night where these types of players get to feast on much weaker competition. I'm all for having 3rd and 4th lines help carrying the load, but you need the talent that can handle it. The Jets are far from the worst teams that ride their top forwards the hardest. We have 2 player in the top 31 and that is Scheifele and Connor. Both Edmonton and Toronto have 3 players in the top 31.

All good points. In addition to that, the way a hockey game flows doesn’t lend to running four lines unless there’s a big deficit, which is uncommon.

If you’re down a goal in the third period and you look down your bench, who do you want on the ice? Scheifele and Laine or Harkins and Appleton?

On the other hand, if you’re up a goal and the other team puts out Matthews and Marner or McDavid and Draisaitl, are you going to insist on getting your 4th line out there for a defensive zone draw in the name of balancing ice time?

Really, we’re only talking about one or two shifts a game. It’s hardly a hill to die on.
 

10Ducky10

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How long is Wheeler going to be able to play big minutes like that? In all likelihood, he is Scheif's winger...

In a perfect world...
Scheif's line 19
Stastny 17
Roslo 13
Lowry 11
 

Adam da bomb

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All good points. In addition to that, the way a hockey game flows doesn’t lend to running four lines unless there’s a big deficit, which is uncommon.

If you’re down a goal in the third period and you look down your bench, who do you want on the ice? Scheifele and Laine or Harkins and Appleton?

On the other hand, if you’re up a goal and the other team puts out Matthews and Marner or McDavid and Draisaitl, are you going to insist on getting your 4th line out there for a defensive zone draw in the name of balancing ice time?

Really, we’re only talking about one or two shifts a game. It’s hardly a hill to die on.
How do other teams do it as I remember Scheifele and wheeler were near the top in terms of minutes played in league. They were useless in ot because of exhaustion. They also get so exhausted they often don’t play D. They would be better with fewer minutes because the coach would trust Harkins and Appleton or Ves and Roslovic. Also the 2015 line in the short sample were better than other 3rd and 4th lines. Copp perfetti ves would outvplay other teams bottom 6 yet with Mo ves and Perfetti would get 4-6 minutes.
 

KingBogo

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How do other teams do it as I remember Scheifele and wheeler were near the top in terms of minutes played in league. They were useless in ot because of exhaustion. They also get so exhausted they often don’t play D. They would be better with fewer minutes because the coach would trust Harkins and Appleton or Ves and Roslovic. Also the 2015 line in the short sample were better than other 3rd and 4th lines. Copp perfetti ves would outvplay other teams bottom 6 yet with Mo ves and Perfetti would get 4-6 minutes.
Wheeler was 4th among Jets forwards in TOI behind Scheifele, Connor and Laine.
 

bennylundholm

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Wheeler was 4th among Jets forwards in TOI behind Scheifele, Connor and Laine.
Wheeler goes shorter shifts than his linemates throughout the game.
Then he totally gases himself at critical points later in the game and in OT to the point that he begins to lose brain functioning and passes to the other team as he wobbles around trying to stay upright.
 
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KingBogo

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Wheeler goes shorter shifts than his linemates throughout the game.
Then he totally gases himself at critical points later in the game and in OT to the point that he begins to lose brain functioning and passes to the other team as he wobbles around trying to stay upright.
The stats over the last 3 years would suggest your perception is wrong. If we isolate just empty net play for and against for the last 3 seasons which is as late in the game as possible and something that is possible to isolate with reasonable access to statistical data, Wheeler comes out quite well. Among active players on the Jets Wheeler is 5th in GF% against an empty net at 78.05% and is 4th in GF% with an empty net at 34.38%. As you can see these are % not raw numbers so they account for increased opportunity.
 

bennylundholm

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The stats over the last 3 years would suggest your perception is wrong. If we isolate just empty net play for and against for the last 3 seasons which is as late in the game as possible and something that is possible to isolate with reasonable access to statistical data, Wheeler comes out quite well. Among active players on the Jets Wheeler is 5th in GF% against an empty net at 78.05% and is 4th in GF% with an empty net at 34.38%. As you can see these are % not raw numbers so they account for increased opportunity.
I'm just going off the eye test.
The sight of Wheeler staying on the ice too long late in a game or in OT and barely being able to move seems too happen far too much.
 
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surixon

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Conner has his cash for the long term now so I doubt he'd be that opposed to moving around the top 6 as needed to help the team win.

With regards to Cole, if he plays a few games for us I want it to be at center so that he really gets a crash course on what his reads will need to be and where he is going to need to improve.

Vesalainen continues to tear it up I Finland and seems to have found his scoring touch again. Play him with some solid players in the bottom 6 that can create plays and I think we add some nice secondary scoring.

Ves Harkins Roslovic would be a solid 3B line imo. It lets Appelton play a more checking role with Lowry and Copp.
 
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LowLefty

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I think KC would probably demand a trade if KV and Perfetti are above him on the LW depth chart:(

He'd probably play where ever he is asked to play - he doesn't strike me as the type that worries too much about line mates or where he sits in the pecking order.
He does need a center that can drive play - would love to see him tested with Perfetti - that would be very interesting.
After watching a number of Cole highlights, he's very good at finding the open guy around the net - which is where KC hangs out.
I doubt very much that they will move LY's top goal scorer to the third line in an effort to balance the line up - unless Perfetti is centering that line :DD
 
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surixon

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He'd probably play where ever he is asked to play - he doesn't strike me as the type that worries too much about line mates or where he sits in the pecking order.
He does need a center that can drive play - would love to see him tested with Perfetti - that would be very interesting.
After watching a number of Cole highlights, he's very good at finding the open guy around the net - which is where KC hangs out.
I doubt very much that they will move LY's top goal scorer to the third line in an effort to balance the line up - unless Perfetti is centering that line :DD

I can see he and Perfetti working really well in the future.

My hope is that Conner after last years playoffs realizes he needs to be better in his own end and learn to push play better himself. To really take a step forward we need both he and Laine to really round out their games to take some pressure off their centers.
 

LowLefty

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I can see he and Perfetti working really well in the future.

My hope is that Conner after last years playoffs realizes he needs to be better in his own end and learn to push play better himself. To really take a step forward we need both he and Laine to really round out their games to take some pressure off their centers.


Agreed - they both need to be better on the D side -
I also think our improved (hopefully) D core will take a little pressure off both - neither can (or probably ever will) be able to make up for a severally stunted D squad like LY. The centers will also benefit.
If we're going to discuss the need for better D from our forwards (some of them at least), we also need to include the need on the blue line in that same discussion.
 

surixon

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Agreed - they both need to be better on the D side -
I also think our improved (hopefully) D core will take a little pressure off both - neither can (or probably ever will) be able to make up for a severally stunted D squad like LY. The centers will also benefit.
If we're going to discuss the need for better D from our forwards (some of them at least), we also need to include the need on the blue line in that same discussion.

That goes without saying, having dmen that can better stop the cycle and move the puck effectively will help.

Where they need to improve is in effectively moving the puck out of our end when they have it on their stick. I would also like to see both improve in their decision making in the nz when entering the oppositions end.

Conner also needs to work on his reads and positioning.
 

LowLefty

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That goes without saying, having dmen that can better stop the cycle and move the puck effectively will help.

Where they need to improve is in effectively moving the puck out of our end when they have it on their stick. I would also like to see both improve in their decision making in the nz when entering the oppositions end.

Conner also needs to work on his reads and positioning.


Yes, it does go without saying but it's important and worth repeating.
As far as reads and positioning go, it doesn't matter much when everything comes out as a dump along the walls regardless of where the wingers are positioned. The wingers are setting up where they should - between the puck and the D men on the blue line - that's where the outlet pass is supposed to end up (offense) and that's where they block off the D man (defensive).
That's why I keep going back to the D discussion - it has to start there or everyone looks bad.
 

garret9

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It does seem like a waste how Maurice uses his four lines. I don't understand the logic in just basically forfeiting one of them for no reason and even then having only 2 scoring lines. Even then most of the time it has been only one scoring line. Offensive chemistry is not a priority at all, which is so weird, especially given the current roster.

Maurice has absolutely genius-level strengths as a coach but this lineup management stuff needs to be delegated to someone else. Just get a guy with a different type of brain to do the stuff you are bad at. I would be horrible at developing talent and keeping the room together. I would get a guy for that.

One thing I always said is people forget there are so many skillsets that a coach or GM have. When I say I think I can do better in some very specific skillsets, people ask sassily if I think I am better than them. I still believe that they are better overall at their job, and it's not even close... There's just a lot of different tasks within a job and I'm specialized in one very specific area.
 
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surixon

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One thing I always said is people forget there are so many skillsets that a coach or GM have. When I say I think I can do better in some very specific skillsets, people ask sassily if I think I am better than them. I still believe that they are better overall at their job, and it's not even close... There's just a lot of different tasks within a job and I'm specialized in one very specific area.

I very much agree with this. Everyone has specific strengths and weaknesses and nobody is an expert at everything. I think Maurice is quite good at some things but is well below average in others.

For instance he shouldn't be allowed to touch the PK. It should be delegated to someone who knows what he/she is doing and Maurice then needs to give that individual the autonomy to derive and execute the system they deem appropriate.

I think we need to see more robust coaching/support staffs where everyone has there own area of expertise and are allowed to make decisions in their areas. I.e, if the sports scientist says optimum ice time is 19 minutes a game for your top line then as a coach you do your best to keep the ice time in that range.

If the statistician has data that states combo x, y, z and b,c, d are good together you should give those combos serious consideration instead of just playing y-b-c together because of hierarchy or because that is what he wants to do.

I personally see the head coach like a top executive, he should be deriving and communicating the overall strategy based on the data he has available but he should be delegating specialized tasks to experts below him and allowing them to carry them out.
 

Razzle71

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Wheeler goes shorter shifts than his linemates throughout the game.
Then he totally gases himself at critical points later in the game and in OT to the point that he begins to lose brain functioning and passes to the other team as he wobbles around trying to stay upright.
:D:laugh::naughty::DD
 

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