Proposal: Jets-Isles

[Critical13]

Ehlers is young with a ton of upside by right now he’s a 2nd line winger. The islanders are stocked deep on the wing in the NHL and the prospect level.

The islanders Need a #2 Center and youngish high end Defensman.

Leddy is a # 3/4 Defensman but can play on the top pair. He’s in my mind the best skating Defensman in the NHL and I think the numbers show he’s either #1-2 at carrying the puck snd entering the zone.

Leddy is also signed long term.

So yes, with all that in mind I would not make his deal. It would have to be a bigger deal to include Eberle or Nelson. Nelson is playing as the islanders #2 Center right now so unless a center is coming back I don’t see him being included in a trade.

That blows my mind. He's a #2 winger on the Jets, I would say he's an ideal 1st line winger to ride with Barzal.

Islanders do have those needs, but I don't think you get better value for Nick Leddy. You won't get a potential #1c or a potential #1d type player. A #1w on a good contract with tons of upside is a great deal for an aging 3/4d.

If I had to guess, Lou accepts this without a 2nd thought. That's how you rebuild a franchise on the fly and still compete.

 

[Huffer]

Delete

 

[Huffer]

Double post

 

[Huffer]

Are you serious?

You're saying no to Ehlers for Leddy?

He's expendable in the right trade...if you're getting Ehlers, this is the right trade. You won't get a better player 1v1 for Nick Leddy.

This is shortsighted HF at it's worst, IMO.

I think shortsighted HF at it's worst is a Jets fan who's panicking about Ehlers while Ehlers has a PDO of 91.

Can't see many, if any other Jets fans besides the OP who would make this trade.

And saying that, Leddy would be a nice addition, but not at the expense of a young piece like Ehlers. Not sure we have a piece that works for the Islanders.

 

[72hockey guy]

Ehlers is young with a ton of upside by right now he’s a 2nd line winger. The islanders are stocked deep on the wing in the NHL and the prospect level.

The islanders Need a #2 Center and youngish high end Defensman.

Leddy is a # 3/4 Defensman but can play on the top pair. He’s in my mind the best skating Defensman in the NHL and I think the numbers show he’s either #1-2 at carrying the puck snd entering the zone.

Leddy is also signed long term.

So yes, with all that in mind I would not make his deal. It would have to be a bigger deal to include Eberle or Nelson. Nelson is playing as the islanders #2 Center right now so unless a center is coming back I don’t see him being included in a trade.

agreed, this is a nice deal on paper, but hockeey games arent won on paper,the Isles need more defense not less and ehlers does nothing to help the Isles Weakest area

winnepeg, has a much better defense than we do and are still looking for more, which should be a clue to some of our less savvy fans, unfortunately they like shiny names Like Ehlers over nitty gritty hockey players, and they think you can win with all offense all the time....sadly you cannot

winning trades on paper and losing them on ice has never lifted a single stanley Cup

 

[voyageur]

I think shortsighted HF at it's worst is a Jets fan who's panicking about Ehlers while Ehlers has a PDO of 91.

Can't see many, if any other Jets fans besides the OP who would make this trade.

And saying that, Leddy would be a nice addition, but not at the expense of a young piece like Ehlers. Not sure we have a piece that works for the Islanders.

I'm not panicking about Ehlers. I don't think his game fits the Jets. We play a possession game. Ehlers in the offensive zone is showing again and again he can not sustain pressure. Jets fans tried to blame Littlr, but Little is only the guy that does everything. Tell me if Laine stays on the top line do you think Connor-Little-Roslovic would be a good possession line? I think Roslovic brings the same speed as Ehlers, but pursues the puck infinitely better, part of our system. That leads to production. And if anything I think they would provide Maurice with a 2nd defensive line, that would allow Scheifele more offensive zone starts, and more production. Then the argument of Petan running the half wall over Ehlers on the 2nd PP is probably another area where we increase production.

Leddy solidifies the d. Chiarot's puck movement is substandard, but he looked good on a sheltered pairing with Myers last year. By trading Ehlers salary, for a top 4 d salary, not having to worry about Myers for next year, being able to buy out Kulikov with a suitable replacement (Niku) the Jets have the Cap Space to lock up 3 core players long term. And if Trouba can't be signed there is the ability to bring more assets into the team.

As it stands I would like a Jets fan to tell me how Roslovic, Veselainen and Suess are going to grow into this team? By moving 4th liner Perreault, while Ehlers continues to flounder as overpaid winger in a system he looks increasingly less comfortable playing in?

It's a good trade for both teams. Now the Isles may need to move Beauvillier into the middle, or Lee at some point, or wait on Wahlstrom, but they don't have a lot of firepower. This is a trade of offense (potential) for defense. And I think given our playoff run last year, we saw that good defense is good offense. Limiting defensive breakdowns enables sustained offensive pressure.

 

[Pongs21]

I'm not panicking about Ehlers. I don't think his game fits the Jets. We play a possession game. Ehlers in the offensive zone is showing again and again he can not sustain pressure. Jets fans tried to blame Littlr, but Little is only the guy that does everything. Tell me if Laine stays on the top line do you think Connor-Little-Roslovic would be a good possession line? I think Roslovic brings the same speed as Ehlers, but pursues the puck infinitely better, part of our system. That leads to production. And if anything I think they would provide Maurice with a 2nd defensive line, that would allow Scheifele more offensive zone starts, and more production. Then the argument of Petan running the half wall over Ehlers on the 2nd PP is probably another area where we increase production.

Leddy solidifies the d. Chiarot's puck movement is substandard, but he looked good on a sheltered pairing with Myers last year. By trading Ehlers salary, for a top 4 d salary, not having to worry about Myers for next year, being able to buy out Kulikov with a suitable replacement (Niku) the Jets have the Cap Space to lock up 3 core players long term. And if Trouba can't be signed there is the ability to bring more assets into the team.

As it stands I would like a Jets fan to tell me how Roslovic, Veselainen and Suess are going to grow into this team? By moving 4th liner Perreault, while Ehlers continues to flounder as overpaid winger in a system he looks increasingly less comfortable playing in?

It's a good trade for both teams. Now the Isles may need to move Beauvillier into the middle, or Lee at some point, or wait on Wahlstrom, but they don't have a lot of firepower. This is a trade of offense (potential) for defense. And I think given our playoff run last year, we saw that good defense is good offense. Limiting defensive breakdowns enables sustained offensive pressure.

25 goals 64 points - 2nd year
29 goals 60 points 3rd year
22 years old
Kids snake bit, not overpaid. Just because it's not clicking with Little and Laine doesn't make him overpaid. I think hes going to be a steal at that contract. Just wait till Nylander gets paid and other young promising players start signing their 1st contract after their ELC.
You talk about the Jets being a possession team. If I recall correctly, was Ehlers not one of the best Jets at offensive zone entries?
Leddy is great, but I'd be extremely disappointed if that was a 1 for 1 swap and feel we'd live to regret it. I'd much rather give Niku the opportunity in that spot before giving up on a 22year old dynamic winger who's good for 60 points. Who I also feel hasn't scratched the surface of his potential.

 

[72hockey guy]

25 goals 64 points - 2nd
29 goals 60 points 3rd year
22 years old
Kids snake bit, not overpaid. Just because it's not clicking with Little and Laine doesn't make him overpaid. I think hes going to be a steal at that contract. Just wait till Nylander gets paid and another young promising players start signing their 1st contract after their ELC.
You talk about the Jets being a possession team. If I recall correctly, was Ehlers not one of the best Jets at offensive zone entries?
Leddy is great, but I'd be extremely disappointed if that was a 1 for 1 swap and feel we'd live to regret it. I'd much rather give Niku the opportunity in that spot before giving up on a 22year old dynamic winger who's good for 60 points. Who I also feel hasn't scratched the surface of his potential.
Little for Leddy much more value for value trade, but wed be left with no 2nd C

I would laugh if little were offered for Leddy

we're not in this to help the jets, why would we accept Little when we wouldnt accept Ehlers

the Jets could conceivably lose Myers and Trouba in short order, and go from being a Cup contender to a middle of the pack team and no Niku does not make up for that. Byfuglien isnt improving as he ages, so they are gonna need defense and soon. I see little reason to subtract from what little defense we have to help them .by making our already weak defense worse

Sure Toews and Dobson are developing but they need mentors too you know. we arent ever going to improve if we trade leddy

 

[Pongs21]

I would laugh if little were offered for Leddy

we're not in this to help the jets, why would we accept Little when we wouldnt accept Ehlers

the Jets could conceivably lose Myers and Trouba in short order, and go from being a Cup contender to a middle of the pack team and no Niku does not make up for that. Byfuglien isnt improving as he ages, so they are gonna need defense and soon. I see little reason to subtract from what little defense we have to help them .by making our already weak defense worse

Sure Toews and Dobson are developing but they need mentors too you know. we arent ever going to improve if we trade leddy

Should have been more clear, im not really proposing that trade, more so making a point to chill the f out in Ehlers and that hes not an overpaid bum

 

[Newsworthy]

Leddy and Nelson for Ehlers

 

[72hockey guy]

Should have been more clear, im not really proposing that trade, more so making a point to chill the f out in Ehlers and that hes not an overpaid bum

i never said he was an overpaid bum, hes just not worth it to trade leddy for, teams need defense too. and youll soon find that out if you lose Trouba and Myers, you wont be so disappointed then if you need to trade Ehlers then for a quality defender. so you chill the F out.

we arent challenging for the cup you are so we have no urgent need for a forward like Ehlers at the expense of Leddy, especially with Wahlstrom And Bellows knocking on the door. and to be honest I tend to think ehlers became a 60 point player more because his line added Laine, more than anything else. I seriously doubthe'd come close to 60 points if he was playing with anyone other than Barzal on the Island

so take your own advice we dont need Ehlers at all, in fact we need more defenders like Leddy

so all things considered hes nowhere near worth Giving up Leddy for

 

[72hockey guy]

Leddy and Nelson for Ehlers

no interest whatsoever

 

[Pongs21]

i never said he was an overpaid bum, hes just not worth it to trade leddy for, teams need defense too. and youll soon find that out if you lose Trouba and Myers, you wont be so disappointed then if you need to trade Ehlers then for a quality defender. so you chill the F out.

we arent challenging for the cup you are so we have no urgent need for a forward like Ehlers at the expense of Leddy, especially with Wahlstrom And Bellows knocking on the door.

so take your own advice we dont need Ehlers at all, in fact we need more defenders like Leddy

My post was more directed towards Jets fans if anything. I dont disagree with what you're saying, I'm just not interested in acquiring Leddy, I'm not banging that drum,
I'm happy with our 6-2-1 start and dont think any moves need to be made right now. We have enough quality pieces that can be shuffled around to see if something sticks rather than make a risky move. I see it as a lesser Hall for Larson trade if that makes any sense.
Trouba may or may not be out the door, but hes an RFA and we'll get good value back if he's shipped out. maybe not full value unless it's a sign and trade, but I don't see him leaving the Jets with no return. Myers I'm sure is a part of some contingency plan, but it's not like both assets are walking out the door at the end of the year with the Jets holding an empty bag. Any contending team losing a top pairing and top 4/5 D man with no return brings them to the middle of the pack, not just the Jets.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

Jets could get bette for Ehelrs.

 

[72hockey guy]

My post was more directed towards Jets fans if anything. I dont disagree with what you're saying, I'm just not interested in acquiring Leddy, I'm not banging that drum,
I'm happy with our 6-2-1 start and dont think any moves need to be made right now. We have enough quality pieces that can be shuffled around to see if something sticks rather than make a risky move. I see it as a lesser Hall for Larson trade if that makes any sense.
Trouba may or may not be out the door, but hes an RFA and we'll get good value back if he's shipped out. maybe not full value unless it's a sign and trade, but I don't see him leaving the Jets with no return. Myers I'm sure is a part of some contingency plan, but it's not like both assets are walking out the door at the end of the year with the Jets holding an empty bag. Any contending team losing a top pairing and top 4/5 D man with no return brings them to the middle of the pack, not just the Jets.

thats all true, but as you do point out, there will be changes on your defense, we have no need for a guy like ehlers, because we do have Wahlstrom and Bellows knocking on the door and unlike the jets we are not contenders, so we have no reason to move one of our only quality defenders to add a forward. especially since its questionable if he'd be as good without Laine, Scheifele, Wheeler and Little.

he's a good player but he benefits from some excellent linemates

 

[72hockey guy]

Jets could get bette for Ehelrs.

i seriously doubt that

teams have to wonder if he's a line driver or merely a beneficiary of his linemates. his start this year only highlights that question. Playing With a Patrik Laine, possibly the best pure goal scorer (along with Boeser, in my opinion) takes all the pressure off Ehlers. teams may think twice cefore trading a Werenski, or Provorov for that..... I know i certainly would.

put it this way, there is no doubt in my mind that if Eberle and Ehlers switched teams theyd put up similar numbers, which is not to say that Ehlers isnt the more valuable player do to age and contract status, because he is, but their pure numbers on ice would be about the same

 

[almostawake]

thats all true, but as you do point out, there will be changes on your defense, we have no need for a guy like ehlers, because we do have Wahlstrom and Bellows knocking on the door and unlike the jets we are not contenders, so we have no reason to move one of our only quality defenders to add a forward. especially since its questionable if he'd be as good without Laine, Scheifele, Wheeler and Little.

he's a good player but he benefits from some excellent linemates

Absolutely get that the Islanders needs are elsewhere, but beating this "Ehlers benefits from his linemates drum" doesn't fit with reality.

Ehlers-Little-Laine is one of the most ineffective ES lines in the league if you divide by the sum of their talent.

And despite that fact, last season Ehlers produced 47 ES points. Signficantly more than Laine or Little.

To be honest, I'm not even certain Ehlers's game would benefit all that much from more offensively talented line mates. What he needs is a defensively responsible center that does the little things right and a winger that is good along the boards. They don't have to be 1st or even high end 2nd line talents offensively. Just the correct fit.

Also, his offensive benefits a lot more from puck moving defensemen with good vision.

 

[72hockey guy]

Absolutely get that the Islanders needs are elsewhere, but beating this "Ehlers benefits from his linemates drum" doesn't fit with reality.

Ehlers-Little-Laine is one of the most ineffective ES lines in the league if you divide by the sum of their talent.

And despite that fact, last season Ehlers produced 47 ES points. Signficantly more than Laine or Little.

To be honest, I'm not even certain Ehlers's game would benefit all that much from more offensively talented line mates. What he needs is a defensively responsible center that does the little things right and a winger that is good along the boards. They don't have to be 1st or even high end 2nd line talents offensively. Just the correct fit.

Also, his offensive benefits a lot more from puck moving defensemen with good vision.

im sorry but it most definitely does Ehlers Went from 40 to 60 points with Laine, and youre trying to tell me thats due to Ehlers? get off it !!! Ehlers Assists went up 140% since Laine arrived.

not only are you insulting Laine, nobody in their right mind would make that argument, you better hope Laine stays healthy because if he gets hurt for an extended period, Ehlers value will fall precipitously.

how you could even hint that Laine doesnt benefit Ehlers is incredible to say the least

 

[almostawake]

im sorry but it most definitely does Ehlers Went from 40 to 60 points with Laine, and youre trying to tell me thats due to Ehlers? get off it !!!

not only are you insulting Laine, nobody in their right mind would make that argument

You do understand that that 40 point season was Ehlers's rookie season right? And you do understand that he started that season at 19 y/o, right? And that for the second half of that season he was scoring at a 60+ point pace anyways?

Look, I'm a Jets fan. I love Laine. He does things I've never seen another player do on a consistent basis.

But most nights, Laine's ES effectiveness is essentially that of an average 2nd line winger. Going forward, he'll certainly be more than that as he keeps improves his skating, vision, d-zone positioning, defensive stick use, and continues to bulk up. But right now he is not a guy that drives possession at ES.

Ehlers is a guy that drives possession with his ability to gain the offensive zone with possession. And he will be that guy until his speed deserts him in old age.

 

[72hockey guy]

You do understand that that 40 point season was Ehlers's rookie season right? And you do understand that he started that season at 19 y/o, right? And that for the second half of that season he was scoring at a 60+ point pace anyways?

Look, I'm a Jets fan. I love Laine. He does things I've never seen another player do on a consistent basis.

But most nights, Laine's ES effectiveness is essentially that of an average 2nd line winger. Going forward, he'll certainly be more than that as he keeps improves his skating, vision, d-zone positioning, defensive stick use, and continues to bulk up. But right now he is not a guy that drives possession at ES.

Ehlers is a guy that drives possession with his ability to gain the offensive zone with possession. And he will be that guy until his speed deserts him in old age.

so you say, but I see it differently, We dont have a patrik Laine to take the focus off Ehlers, most teams dont. you can make up all the excuses you want but Ehlers isnt a line driver and playing on the Islanders with anyone but Barzal he wouldnt sniff 50 points let alone 60 and No One will give you a top Pairing Defenseman for him and you know it.

put up a poll. leave Isles fans and Jets fans out of it, Who is better Laine or Ehlers? you'll soon find out who really drives that line. I get it youre defending your player, but dont baldfaced lie to do it

im certain if Eberle and Ehlers swapped teams the jets wouldnt notice the difference

 

[Saitama]

Oh yeah, let's trade Laine's best friend on the team while we're negotiating his next contract! I'm sure that will work out great for the Jets!

 

[almostawake]

so you say, but I see it differently, We dont have a patrik Laine to take the focus off Ehlers, most teams dont. you can make up all the excuses you want but Ehlers isnt a line driver and playing on the Islanders with anyone but Barzal he wouldnt sniff 50 points let alone 60 and No One will give you a top Pairing Defenseman for him and you know it.

I'm not arguing anything related to what he would get in trade. You are confusing arguments you are having with other people.

The point is simple. Ehlers is what is he is. It is what he was before the Jets even picked Laine.

Its is easy to watch the highlights of Laine and think he is a dominant game changing player. Sometimes he certainly is. And on the PP he definitely is all the time.

But for every crazy highlight you see, there's at least a few shifts where the Ehlers-Little-Laine line is hemmed in in their own end way too long because someone (and to be clear, it isn't only Laine) wasn't strong on the puck at a critical moment, or chose to make a fancy play instead of a safe one.

But the only way you're going to see that is if you watch every single Jets game. Which I have since before either Ehlers or Laine were even on the scene.

 

[72hockey guy]

I'm not arguing anything related to what he would get in trade. You are confusing arguments you are having with other people.

The point is simple. Ehlers is what is he is. It is what he was before the Jets even picked Laine.

Its is easy to watch the highlights of Laine and think he is a dominant game changing player. Sometimes he certainly is. And on the PP he definitely is all the time.

But for every crazy highlight you see, there's at least a few shifts where the Ehlers-Little-Laine line is hemmed in in their own end way too long because someone (and to be clear, it isn't only Laine) wasn't strong on the puck at a critical moment, or chose to make a fancy play instead of a safe one.

But the only way you're going to see that is if you watch every single Jets game. Which I have since before either Ehlers or Laine were even on the scene.

now youre grasping at straws, saying you see things nobody else can. im done with you. ehlers has 140% more assists since Laine joined the team. if Ehlers is and has been the line driver, why has that happened? forget your imaginary insights only you see, focus on that alone, if Ehlers drives the line why didnt he do that before?

nobody buys your imaginary i see things nobody else can see bull. Anybody with Eyes knows Laine is among the best pure snipers in the NHL, and Ehlers benefits immensely from that, so unless youre trading them in a package, youre not getting a first pairing Defender for Ehlers

 

[72hockey guy]

Oh yeah, let's trade Laine's best friend on the team while we're negotiating his next contract! I'm sure that will work out great for the Jets!

this i wont argue, i dont know how close they are, so I take your word for it. but i do know this.... if I had Laine and Ehlers is his best buddy, I wouldnt even think of moving him. in this league you do what you can to keep your elite players happy. and Laine is ELITE. (capital letters on purpose) how anyone can say that anyone who plays with him doesnt benefit is CRAZY and to say someone else drives that line.....

when Laine has the puck in the offensive zone, every eye in the damned arenas on him.

with the exception of Almost awale that is, no wonder he has that name, he's obviously dreaming of Ehlers

 

[almostawake]

now youre grasping at straws, saying you see things nobody else can. im done with you. ehlers has 140% more assists since Laine joined the team. if Ehlers is and has been the line driver, why has that happened? forget your imaginary insights only you see, focus on that alone, if Ehlers drives the line why didnt he do that before?

nobody buys your imaginary i see things nobody else can see bull

And 98.43% of Laine's ES goals have come while on a line with Ehlers.

I'm a data scientist. If you want to play with weak inference and claiming causality from correlation: Come at me bro.

But really. I'm far from the only person who sees Laine's limitations at ES. I mean, one of the few times that Ehlers and Laine have actually been broken up Maurice explicitly said it was because their line was spending too much time in their own defensive end.

Like, have you seen Laine shoot? If he was half as good at getting the puck to the other end of ice as he is at shooting, we wouldn't be talking about a guy that was tied for 21st in ES goals last season. We'd be talking about a guy that had the most ES goals by a fairly significant margin. BTW, can focus on the assist numbers, but the reality is, Laine only had 2 more ES goals than Ehlers last season.