Proposal: Jets Defence Mega Thread

Intangir

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At this point, the best course of action for the Jets would be to acquire serviceable defensemen that are slight upgrades on what they have right now on the cheap, just like they did with Dahlstrom, since the kinds of players that would make the Jets' defense more than just a bit better right now and for the future (AKA good young-ish defensemen) are plain not available, and even if they are, they will certainly not come cheap.

A guy like Ristolainen might be had from the Buffalo Sabres, and fair value would likely consist of a First-round pick or similar-quality prospect, another lower pick and a B-level prospect or weaker d-man (basically the Montour and Faulk trades), except that the Sabres still have Montour and Bogosian on IR so it is likely that they would rather keep Ristolainen for now as a quality insurance policy than trade him for fair value. If Montour returns and shows he can play at a high level, Ristolainen could get dealt, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially with how Buffalo is playing as a group right now.

In the meanwhile, I fear Winnipeg will find improving their defense difficult and will need to keep weathering the storm and try to outscore their defensive inefficiency until they manage to find a trade partner and a fit roster-wise while not mortgaging their team or future too badly.
 
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elchud

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It's early, but everything's working for the Sabres right now. Sabres have RHD depth, with Montour is back in 2-3 weeks.


Montour / Rodrigues / Vesey

Roslovic / Perreault / Nikkanen / 2020 1st (top16 protected), if not 2021 1st


Sabres keep 3 RHD (Risto/Miller/Jokiharju) with Will Borgen knocking on the door. Montour is immediately a 22 minute RHD for the Jets. Vesey is a dump, but seems good for 15-20 goals a year. Rodrigues is shipped out for a slight upgrade in Roslovic...he's seem to be an afterthought in the BUF new coaching regime, but can play 3rd/4th line center minutes and goes hard on either wing.

Sabres get a veteran W/C on a bad contract in Perreault, a 10-13 forward, maybe similar to Sobotka but with an extra year and who can actually score a few goals. Roslovic is the RW/C with upside, and a Sheary/Perreault/Roslovic line seems to be a way to take Mittelstadt out of center minutes while also giving more offense than they currently have in the Vesey/Mitts/Sheary-Rodrigues line which hasn't produced anything. Nikkanen is a big C prospect who fell his draft year, and the 1st will transfer to 2021 if the Jets make the playoffs this year...which they should, right?


Vesey can be moved at the deadline (for a 3rd, that seems to be what he's worth), Montour and Rodrigues are RFAs next year. Sabres have to assume Perreault's contract to make this deal work in 2021. Even with moving out Montour's deal, and the several UFAs, salary will be tight in 2021 for Buffalo with having to re-sign Reinhart/Olofsson/Mitts/Ullmark. Maybe a mid-low pick to balance this out.
 

hn777

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The Jets need a 1RHD (and BTW, we still don't know if Buff is coming back), not just any D.
The Jets can't continue to offload forwards neither, the depth has taken a hit after losing Armia, Lemieux, Tanev within a year+, so I would keep Roslovic, who has been great this year.
Ride it out with the D as it is atm., help is on the way from promising prospects.
 
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elchud

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The Jets need a 1RHD (and BTW, we still don't know if Buff is coming back), not just any D.
The Jets can't continue to offload forwards neither, the depth has taken a hit after losing Armia, Lemieux, Tanev within a year+, so I would keep Roslovic, who has been great this year.
Ride it out with the D as it is atm., help is on the way from promising prospects.

Right, I'm just looking at this from a different Jets perspective than yours. You've got a half-dozen LHD prospects none of whom are ready for top-4 minutes this year, Buff may in fact be finished, and how easy is it to find a 2RHD let alone a 1RHD. Montour is a great get for you, you still have Vesalainen/Appleton/Gustafsson and you are coming off a 99 point season and (I think) are still one of the top 5 Western Conference teams. Your window to win is now, but, it could very well be a season where you miss the playoffs if you don't add 1/2RHD who can eat some serious minutes. If there's a better option out there than Montour, you may need to go for that option. Sabres can write off 19-20 as a non-playoff year and it's fine, not sure if the Jets can do the same.

*And as for forward depth, Wheeler/Connor/Laine/Schiefele/Ehlers/Copp/Vesalainen/Appleton/Gustafsson are your top 9 in a couple years. I suppose you can upgrade on that through trades, but no other current prospects on drafted prospects this year or next year will slot in ahead of any of those 9. In a sense, you're already committed to your top 5 for a long time and Copp may be a 6th commitment. Yes, of course there can be 2-for-1 trades, and with a surplus of LHD prospects that seems likely in your future.
 

leeroggy

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The Jets need a 1RHD (and BTW, we still don't know if Buff is coming back), not just any D.
The Jets can't continue to offload forwards neither, the depth has taken a hit after losing Armia, Lemieux, Tanev within a year+, so I would keep Roslovic, who has been great this year.
Ride it out with the D as it is atm., help is on the way from promising prospects.

It seems that is kind of wishful thinking right now. Didn't it get reported he didn't even skate over the summer? A 34-year old who 'IN SHAPE' weighs 260 lbs. and didn't condition over the summer is likely up closer to 300 now. Even if he came back what's the likelihood he gets through the rest of the season without multiple strains, etc.?

He's mad a LOT of money over the years and it looks like his heart is just not into playing anymore, no matter what the reports might be.
 

hn777

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Right, I'm just looking at this from a different Jets perspective than yours. You've got a half-dozen LHD prospects none of whom are ready for top-4 minutes this year, Buff may in fact be finished, and how easy is it to find a 2RHD let alone a 1RHD. Montour is a great get for you, you still have Vesalainen/Appleton/Gustafsson and you are coming off a 99 point season and (I think) are still one of the top 5 Western Conference teams. Your window to win is now, but, it could very well be a season where you miss the playoffs if you don't add 1/2RHD who can eat some serious minutes. If there's a better option out there than Montour, you may need to go for that option. Sabres can write off 19-20 as a non-playoff year and it's fine, not sure if the Jets can do the same.

*And as for forward depth, Wheeler/Connor/Laine/Schiefele/Ehlers/Copp/Vesalainen/Appleton/Gustafsson are your top 9 in a couple years. I suppose you can upgrade on that through trades, but no other current prospects on drafted prospects this year or next year will slot in ahead of any of those 9. In a sense, you're already committed to your top 5 for a long time and Copp may be a 6th commitment. Yes, of course there can be 2-for-1 trades, and with a surplus of LHD prospects that seems likely in your future.
Lots of good points.

I think Pionk and Poolman has been good this season, and can be our 2RD and 3RD now and going forward. Morrissey is a 1LD, you can absolutely argue we need a 2LD short term (this season), but better team D and defensive systems would go a long way.
[Edit: Fun fact: Neal Pionk leads the NHL in total ice time with 162:07. Not saying it's sustainable, but so far so good]

The problem at F is short term, as we're now playing guys like Letestu, Bourque next to Lowry instead of legit NHL players like Armia, Tanev, Lemieux.

I agree with your analysis of the Jets medium and long term F core.
 
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Fjordy

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Dahlstrom played 23 minutes the other night for the Jets.
Doesn't mean he's worth a major forward piece on a good long term contract.

If Risto was in the Jets dressing room I'm sure they would play him and maybe a lot. But that doesn't mean he's worth one of our young core to us at this time.

Next summer would be a better time to address this.
The Jets can see if they can get a good UFA (I've seen a list that shows a lot of D are UFA this summer) or perhaps a trade at that time. In season trades are difficult.

No need to spend a big asset to get a player that doesn't even fit the style for the role you're trying to fill.
Dahlstrom probably played so much because there is no one else. Risto always plays so much and looks good. I don’t see the point of Buffalo trade him for a bag of pucks or some unproven prospects. If you need proven RHD in top 4, then pay, if not, no problem.
 
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Jeti

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Jul 8, 2011
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Dahlstrom probably played so much because there is no one else. Risto always plays so much and looks good. I don’t see the point of Buffalo trade him for a bag of pucks or some unproven prospects. If you need proven RHD in top 4, then pay, if not, no problem.
You really don't see his point? Risto has always played so much because Buffalo has been terrible and had no one to play ahead of him. When has he looked good (before this year, supposedly)? He's not proven in a top 4 role any more than Pionk was last year with the Rangers (where, like Risto, he was terrible by every metric other than points).
 
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tbcwpg

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At this point, the best course of action for the Jets would be to acquire serviceable defensemen that are slight upgrades on what they have right now on the cheap, just like they did with Dahlstrom, since the kinds of players that would make the Jets' defense more than just a bit better right now and for the future (AKA good young-ish defensemen) are plain not available, and even if they are, they will certainly not come cheap.

A guy like Ristolainen might be had from the Buffalo Sabres, and fair value would likely consist of a First-round pick or similar-quality prospect, another lower pick and a B-level prospect or weaker d-man (basically the Montour and Faulk trades), except that the Sabres still have Montour and Bogosian on IR so it is likely that they would rather keep Ristolainen for now as a quality insurance policy than trade him for fair value. If Montour returns and shows he can play at a high level, Ristolainen could get dealt, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially with how Buffalo is playing as a group right now.

In the meanwhile, I fear Winnipeg will find improving their defense difficult and will need to keep weathering the storm and try to outscore their defensive inefficiency until they manage to find a trade partner and a fit roster-wise while not mortgaging their team or future too badly.

I'm not sure paying a first round pick for a "slight serviceable upgrade" is the best use of assets there.

The team is paralyzed until the Buff situation works out because of the cap. The only trade that makes sense is a move that is cap neutral or reduces the cap in case he returns. And in that case, someone useful would be going out - is that best case for a team who's got a winning record at this early point of the season?
 

Fjordy

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You really don't see his point? Risto has always played so much because Buffalo has been terrible and had no one to play ahead of him. When has he looked good (before this year, supposedly)? He's not proven in a top 4 role any more than Pionk was last year with the Rangers (where, like Risto, he was terrible by every metric other than points).
Now he is great with a team and a competent coach. The bottom line is that it makes no sense for us to trade Risto cheaply and everyone knows that.
 
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TS Quint

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Dahlstrom probably played so much because there is no one else. Risto always plays so much and looks good. I don’t see the point of Buffalo trade him for a bag of pucks or some unproven prospects. If you need proven RHD in top 4, then pay, if not, no problem.
Clearly its a problem. Jet fans aren't countering with garbage like you say. They are just saying no with explanation. Maybe refute with some stats rather than just saying you think he looks good or something.
 

Yukon Joe

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It seems that is kind of wishful thinking right now. Didn't it get reported he didn't even skate over the summer? A 34-year old who 'IN SHAPE' weighs 260 lbs. and didn't condition over the summer is likely up closer to 300 now. Even if he came back what's the likelihood he gets through the rest of the season without multiple strains, etc.?

He's mad a LOT of money over the years and it looks like his heart is just not into playing anymore, no matter what the reports might be.

No. I have not seen it reported that Buff didn't skate over the summer.

Now he didn't play in the summer Da Beauty League, but he was seen skating with Jets players in Winnipeg right before training camp.

And where do you get the idea he "likely" packed on 40 pounds over just one summer? For what it's worth, he has been seen around Winnipeg the last month or so, and no one has commented that it looked like he put on weight.
 
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leeroggy

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No. I have not seen it reported that Buff didn't skate over the summer.

Now he didn't play in the summer Da Beauty League, but he was seen skating with Jets players in Winnipeg right before training camp.

And where do you get the idea he "likely" packed on 40 pounds over just one summer? For what it's worth, he has been seen around Winnipeg the last month or so, and no one has commented that it looked like he put on weight.

At his size, putting on weight in the offseason is pretty common.

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-rumors-october-12-2019/

Excerpt:

Since Byfuglien took his leave of absence, little information has been leaked as he’s kept a low profile. Earlier this week, Bob McKenzie, appearing on TSN 1050’s OverDrive, mentioned that he heard that Byfuglien “didn’t skate or train all summer. And he’s not had a training camp.” He also pointed out that Byfuglien is coming off a bad ankle.

That's my source, I doubt McKenzie didn't find a 2nd source before putting that out but you can listen if you want to.
 

GaryPoppins

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Sep 10, 2016
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At this point, the best course of action for the Jets would be to acquire serviceable defensemen that are slight upgrades on what they have right now on the cheap, just like they did with Dahlstrom, since the kinds of players that would make the Jets' defense more than just a bit better right now and for the future (AKA good young-ish defensemen) are plain not available, and even if they are, they will certainly not come cheap.

A guy like Ristolainen might be had from the Buffalo Sabres, and fair value would likely consist of a First-round pick or similar-quality prospect, another lower pick and a B-level prospect or weaker d-man (basically the Montour and Faulk trades), except that the Sabres still have Montour and Bogosian on IR so it is likely that they would rather keep Ristolainen for now as a quality insurance policy than trade him for fair value. If Montour returns and shows he can play at a high level, Ristolainen could get dealt, but I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially with how Buffalo is playing as a group right now.

In the meanwhile, I fear Winnipeg will find improving their defense difficult and will need to keep weathering the storm and try to outscore their defensive inefficiency until they manage to find a trade partner and a fit roster-wise while not mortgaging their team or future too badly.

Sincere question:

What makes anyone outside of Jets kool-aid drinkers think that this D Corps can improve even with some additions? They had 10x the D Corps last year and still were a bottom 10 defensive team.

We need to look at coaching as a major issue to resolve.
 
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snowkiddin

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It's early, but everything's working for the Sabres right now. Sabres have RHD depth, with Montour is back in 2-3 weeks.


Montour / Rodrigues / Vesey

Roslovic / Perreault / Nikkanen / 2020 1st (top16 protected), if not 2021 1st


Sabres keep 3 RHD (Risto/Miller/Jokiharju) with Will Borgen knocking on the door. Montour is immediately a 22 minute RHD for the Jets. Vesey is a dump, but seems good for 15-20 goals a year. Rodrigues is shipped out for a slight upgrade in Roslovic...he's seem to be an afterthought in the BUF new coaching regime, but can play 3rd/4th line center minutes and goes hard on either wing.

Sabres get a veteran W/C on a bad contract in Perreault, a 10-13 forward, maybe similar to Sobotka but with an extra year and who can actually score a few goals. Roslovic is the RW/C with upside, and a Sheary/Perreault/Roslovic line seems to be a way to take Mittelstadt out of center minutes while also giving more offense than they currently have in the Vesey/Mitts/Sheary-Rodrigues line which hasn't produced anything. Nikkanen is a big C prospect who fell his draft year, and the 1st will transfer to 2021 if the Jets make the playoffs this year...which they should, right?


Vesey can be moved at the deadline (for a 3rd, that seems to be what he's worth), Montour and Rodrigues are RFAs next year. Sabres have to assume Perreault's contract to make this deal work in 2021. Even with moving out Montour's deal, and the several UFAs, salary will be tight in 2021 for Buffalo with having to re-sign Reinhart/Olofsson/Mitts/Ullmark. Maybe a mid-low pick to balance this out.

Don't know too much about the Sabres' players but I'm not really interested in moving Nikkanen. I know he's a minor piece, but he's a C prospect that we desperately need and he's off to a good start. He was looked at as a potential first round pick before he fell due to injury.
 

Zhamnov5GoalGame

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Dahlstrom probably played so much because there is no one else. Risto always plays so much and looks good. I don’t see the point of Buffalo trade him for a bag of pucks or some unproven prospects. If you need proven RHD in top 4, then pay, if not, no problem.

I'm not suggesting they should trade him.
I'm saying the Jets shouldn't trade for him period.
 
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TT1

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Remove all trash from Canadiens and är a Good piece instead, like Koktka, and remove kulikov and it is much closer....

Or lets go tour style: bietteto Dahlström a 2nd for Petry

what is this garbage, Petry isn't getting moved
 

Intangir

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Sincere question:

What makes anyone outside of Jets kool-aid drinkers think that this D Corps can improve even with some additions? They had 10x the D Corps last year and still were a bottom 10 defensive team.

We need to look at coaching as a major issue to resolve.

I agree that coaching, goaltending and the system have a huge influence on the way a team's defense shapes up and that the Jets indeed lost a ton of quality and depth on defense in the last year, but it is my, a Habs fan and neutral observer in this case, belief that with a few personnel upgrades (say, one top 4 D, RHD preferably, and a good #5-6) and some slight adjustments of the system and the forwards' implication on defense, the Jets' defense could be merely a bit below-average on defense (a situation that would actually be viable for them given the high-powered offense) instead of the dumpster fire it is now.
 

Fjordy

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I'm not suggesting they should trade him.
I'm saying the Jets shouldn't trade for him period.
Clearly, on the other hand, and for whom should they trade? Now it is unlikely that someone will give a good defender to top 4. Risto is good in his zone when he is not foolish with the puck, for all the games this season he had one serious mistake in his area, and then Risto is not entirely guilty. Of course he is not Pesce or Slavin in his zone, but he is not Pionk, plus he is very good at physical game if you need such a player.
 

tbcwpg

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Jan 25, 2011
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Clearly, on the other hand, and for whom should they trade? Now it is unlikely that someone will give a good defender to top 4. Risto is good in his zone when he is not foolish with the puck, for all the games this season he had one serious mistake in his area, and then Risto is not entirely guilty. Of course he is not Pesce or Slavin in his zone, but he is not Pionk, plus he is very good at physical game if you need such a player.

If Buff retires either this season, or in the offseason, the Jets have a lot of money to spend on a d-man. I don't think you'll find many Jets players looking to pay Ehlers or Connor for a defenceman who is probably not moving the needle between contender and bubble team this year. It slightly improves the defence at the cost of making the forwards much worse.
 
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is the answer jesus

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His advanced stats "playing on terrible Sabres teams" are no better than terrible dmen playing on those same teams. His simple stats show he's a PP specialist. being garbage defensively is one thing, being poor offensively 5v5 is another.

No one cares about the physical element if he's bad (Well a few, maybe Potato Maurice does) He scores 40 points a year playing on the PP. He's a poor 5v5 producer.

There are dozens of scouts at many NHL games. You have no idea what the interest is, and if teams were soooo god damned interested he'd be traded by now.

I'd rather Neal Pionk, and that's saying something considering I hate the Trouba trade.
The problem with your theory is that not all of Buffalo's defenseman are "terrible". Look at a player like Scandella who was widely touted as a solid 2nd pairing guy in his Wild days. He's been absolutely caved in playing on these Sabres teams. It's almost like being on a bad team might severely impact nearly all stats for the majority of the members of that team, both good and bad. When terrible teams aren't scoring at all at even strength the best opportunity good players get to accumulate points is on the PP. Ristolainen has done that. What he'll do on a team that actually scores at ES is unknown at this point. Hockey isn't a game played on spreadsheets despite this new wave of fans who consistently point to them as the end all be all of player evaluation. Which is again why there has been interest in Ristolainen as reported by several hockey insiders and the price has been reported as being "high". Sure scouts are at every game, but in the intermission of the game in question it was specifically mentioned there was an increased number of scouts and that was related to Rasmus Ristolainen being on the block. Now even if that's Botterill playing the media to maximize his return, why have teams been rumored to be after Ristolainen? Why does TB have any interest in an overpaid PP specialist? Ultimately GM's have seen enough good on the ice combined with potential for more to outweigh the deficiencies Ristolainen has. The timeline of when a player is traded is irrelevant. Everyone knew Duchene wanted out and many teams were interested, the deal took a while to come to fruition to maximize the return. No one is forcing Jets fans to like or want Ristolainen.
 

dogbazinho

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If Buff retires either this season, or in the offseason, the Jets have a lot of money to spend on a d-man. I don't think you'll find many Jets players looking to pay Ehlers or Connor for a defenceman who is probably not moving the needle between contender and bubble team this year. It slightly improves the defence at the cost of making the forwards much worse.

Waiting till the offseason has it's own challenges. Chances are you'll have to overpay or take a risk on a player that for some reason team's don't want to touch. Even then it's possible you won't find the right fit and what then? You've spent a year waiting and all your young players are 1 year closer to UFA and still haven't addressed your D.
 

tbcwpg

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Jan 25, 2011
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Waiting till the offseason has it's own challenges. Chances are you'll have to overpay or take a risk on a player that for some reason team's don't want to touch. Even then it's possible you won't find the right fit and what then? You've spent a year waiting and all your young players are 1 year closer to UFA and still haven't addressed your D.

The loss of the players being suggested by other teams' fans would be a bigger negative impact on the Jets than the marginal improvement of the defencemen being offered. Players like Petry are 2 years away from UFA - those young players are all signed for longer.

I'd rather have Ehlers and this D than Ristolainen and no Ehlers.
 

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