Post-Game Talk: Jets 5 Oilers 4

[Shathar]

Thats the problem with Cagguila. If he just played on the third and fourth line as an energy type guy who plays simple hes pretty good. Hes just not good defensively and he shouldnt be on the PK (too many brain lapses). He also just thinks thats hes much more skilled than he actually is. He makes so many bad plays because hes trying to be hero or because he thinks hes better than he is. I have generally liked what I have saw from him this year, but he wasnt good last night. He was coming off an injury which should be more of the reason to just play a simple game.

Cagguila has transformed and salvaged his career by becoming a third-line agitator sort and if he continues to play that role he'll be a useful NHL player. But he was a 'skilled' guy in college. Maybe it takes him a game or two after an injury to forget that line of thinking again.

 

[FlameChampion]

Cagguila has transformed and salvaged his career by becoming a third-line agitator sort and if he continues to play that role he'll be a useful NHL player. But he was a 'skilled' guy in college. Maybe it takes him a game or two after an injury to forget that line of thinking again.

Yeah so far this year hes been playing the third line agitator sort and been pretty opportunistic. Last game he kinda looked like he did last year, trying to do too much, trying to be too cute and it cost the team.

 

[frag2]

Cagguila has transformed and salvaged his career by becoming a third-line agitator sort and if he continues to play that role he'll be a useful NHL player. But he was a 'skilled' guy in college. Maybe it takes him a game or two after an injury to forget that line of thinking again.

Sounds eerily similar to Cogliano

 

[Multigrain]

Just wondering if the third pairing was so exposed why were the not a -? Both were +?

 

[nabob]

I forgot to pvr the game so I can't give exact times in the game, but there were two in the 3rd period he made that kept the Oilers in it. One was a one timer from the slot that he absorbed. Too me, that was a big save. One timers from the slot aren't easy stops. The other one was a hard wrist shot labelled for the top corner from the circle. He got a glove on it and tipped it over the net. Again, nothing overly spectacular but it was a big stop in my opinion.

It's a double edged sword with Talbot. He made the big saves to get them to OT but he didn't make the big save in regulation off Perrault (thought he could have stopped that) and the Laine goal. He got a piece of it, but not enough. It looked like he shot it right at him and was stoppable in my opinion.

I remember the one timer clearly and the Jets player muffin’d The shot right into Talbot’s crest. The other one I believe was actually a shot that was high blocker side that he got a piece of with his shoulder. It wasn’t from the best angle but it was a well placed, hard shot. Both were saved that you expect a goalie to make.

 

[CupofOil]

His job is to let 2 or 3 at max in during any game.

He let in 5

Koskinen let in 4 last game including 2 softies against Rantanen btw and I didn't see any posts like this in the PGT (big fan of Koski btw).

It's so simple to some of you, isn't it?
Opponent doesn't get taken into account, team in front of him doesn't matter, injuries etc.

The fact of the matter is that this was a heavily depleted lineup that was a 20 minute fire drill in front of the goalie in the 3rd against an elite offense that was hungry (41 shot attempts against in the 3rd alone!!!) and he only let up 1 somehow getting them a point. He did let up 2 softies and was shaky even on some of the saves but anybody putting all the blame on Talbot for that game either didn't watch the whole game or has a serious agenda against him.

 

[GMofOilers]

Koskinen let in 4 last game including 2 softies against Rantanen btw and I didn't see any posts like this in the PGT (big fan of Koski btw).

It's so simple to some of you, isn't it?
Opponent doesn't get taken into account, team in front of him doesn't matter, injuries etc.

The fact of the matter is that this was a heavily depleted lineup that was a 20 minute fire drill in front of the goalie in the 3rd against an elite offense that was hungry (41 shot attempts against in the 3rd alone!!!) and he only let up 1 somehow getting them a point. He did let up 2 softies and was shaky even on some of the saves but anybody putting all the blame on Talbot for that game either didn't watch the whole game or has a serious agenda against him.

The fact of the matter is Talbot is a terrible goalie, has been for a long time now.

His GAA is 1 more then Koskinen, and his save % is over 20 points worse.

Koskinen wins last night no problem at all.

 

[CupofOil]

Caggiula thought he was Mcdavid out there for a shift with his behind the back pass turnover, then another turn over, then another one in the same sequence and its in their net.

Good job Drake, welcome back.

It was his first game so he needs to be cut some slack.

It was a weird game for him. I thought he looked great early, had two prime scoring chances, made one great pass that led to a chance which I didn't know he had in him then just seemed gassed in the 3rd making many lazy reads. First game back, lets give him a break.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Great post.

I'd also add to it (even though it's already baked in there) that he really seems to know how to use a player's strenghts. I always assume/think that players at this level don't really need to develop that much. It looks like big steps in development when someone (coach or similar) manages to pin-point a strenght and have the player use them in the right way. This is above the general quality of the player of course.

Hitch seems to be awesome at this and as you say he seems to also get them to think the right way.


I'll mention something I kept to closed door conversations a couple of weeks ago. He said just a couple of games after Hitch took over that he liked McLellan and thought practices were hard under Hitch but not much changed (didn't word it very nicely so he would have neen roasted on hfoil...). Just one week later he was excited as a kid on Christmas eve talking about Hitch and the positive changes he had on the team and added that he looked forward to Hitch starting to work more with the defence (apparently he worked almost exclusively with the fwds in the first weeks). I bet he isn't the only one who has had this turn-around and it's a very good sign.

I can't parse what you're saying here. Who is he? I read this a couple times and can't make sense of it.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The fact of the matter is Talbot is a terrible goalie, has been for a long time now.

His GAA is 1 more then Koskinen, and his save % is over 20 points worse.

Koskinen wins last night no problem at all.

Strange, Talbot was fine in the previous two games.

Of course, you didn't watch those.

 

[iCanada]

Sounds eerily similar to Cogliano

Cogliano. Injuries. Pick one.

 

[CupofOil]

The fact of the matter is Talbot is a terrible goalie, has been for a long time now.

His GAA is 1 more then Koskinen, and his save % is over 20 points worse.

Koskinen wins last night no problem at all.

I'm just talking about last night and I know that Koskinen is the better goalie.

I'm just talking about the double standard around when it comes to certain players. You said a goalie needs to keep the goals down to 2 or 3 yet Koskinen let in 4 the previous game with two being very stoppable yet not a peep from.some about those soft goals.

Lol at "not a problem" that Koskinen wins that game last night. Did you see the 3rd period? That would have been a problem for any goalie in the league. I'm more confident with Koskinen in net but that was a very difficult goalie game for the Oilers.

 

[NeverForget06]

The fact of the matter is Talbot is a terrible goalie, has been for a long time now.

His GAA is 1 more then Koskinen, and his save % is over 20 points worse.

Koskinen wins last night no problem at all.

I know you don't like Talbot but you could at least keep your opinions based in fact. Or admit when Talbot has a good game instead of disappearing only to reappear again when your narrative is correct.

Winnipeg had like 26 scoring chances last night. You really think that would have been "no problem at all" for Koskinen? I still think he would have had to play a pretty spectacular game honestly.

 

[GMofOilers]

I'm just talking about last night and I know that Koskinen is the better goalie.

I'm just talking about the double standard around when it comes to certain players. You said a goalie needs to keep the goals down to 2 or 3 yet Koskinen let in 4 the previous game with two being very stoppable yet not a peep from.some about those soft goals.

Lol at "not a problem" that Koskinen wins that game last night. Did you see the 3rd period? That would have been a problem for any goalie in the league. I'm more confident with Koskinen in net but that was a very difficult goalie game for the Oilers.

Well its because he never gave up the lead last game, so he did his job perfectly fine.

Talbot gave up a 1 goal lead twice last night.

 

[Stoneman89]

Talbot was busy, but not a lot of 5 bell chances. He needed to save the OT winner. So his night was fine with a burp at the end.

Not to dismiss Talbot's work, but I believe if Koskinen was in net, he may have come up with a couple great saves that were goals last night, and we win 4-3.

This seems to be the difference between the 2 goalies, for me at least. Both make the saves you should make, more often than not. But Koskinen takes it to another level by making ones that he shouldn't be able to make. Goalies like that are hard to come by, and are the ones that take teams to another level.

 

[GMofOilers]

I know you don't like Talbot but you could at least keep your opinions based in fact. Or admit when Talbot has a good game instead of disappearing only to reappear again when your narrative is correct.

Winnipeg had like 26 scoring chances last night. You really think that would have been "no problem at all" for Koskinen? I still think he would have had to play a pretty spectacular game honestly.

Talbot gave up the lead twice last night.

He didnt do his job at all.

 

[GMofOilers]

Talbot was busy, but not a lot of 5 bell chances. He needed to save the OT winner. So his night was fine with a burp at the end.

Not to dismiss Talbot's work, but I believe if Koskinen was in net, he may have come up with a couple great saves that were goals last night, and we win 4-3.

This seems to be the difference between the 2 goalies, for me at least. Both make the saves you should make, more often than not. But Koskinen takes it to another level by making ones that he shouldn't be able to make. Goalies like that are hard to come by, and are the ones that take teams to another level.

GAA and save % between the 2 also stat that Koskinen wins 4-3 last night.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Talbot gave up the lead twice last night.

He didnt do his job at all.

You mean that goal that went in off a defender's skate? Maybe Talbot's not using his psychic powers enough.

 

[Drivesaitl]

60-40 Jets in the first.
80-20 Oilers in the second.
95-5 Jets in the third.

Given the Oil lineup and the fact that we ended up with a point against a team with fantastic depth, I’m satisfied.

Happy to see Khaira score. Seems Hitch might like this player and is giving him more chances than McLellan did. I think JJ is responding well. Thought he had a hell of a game last night. Wish the big guy would use his speed on every shift though. HM to Brodz and Kassian as well. Thought they were hustling all night - esp on the PK. Hitch is getting to these guys too.

Which leads to the point I wanted to make. Unbelievable how Hitchcock seems to be getting guys to play better individually. I can only assume that this comes from him being able to reach the players mentally. It’s a facet of coaching that perhaps most fans, myself included, don’t consider enough. Drawing up the lineup, running practices, having a game plan etc ... these were all things I expected to improve under Hitchcock. What I didn’t expect to see so quickly was guys embracing roles and/or skating their guts out to show the coach they deserve a particular role. It’s clear they are playing for Hitch.

I was on record saying Bowman couldn’t coach this roster into the playoffs. Hitch is a slam dunk hall of fame coach so he’s as close as any of us is going to get to seeing a ‘Bowman’ again. And it’s clear he’s proving me wrong. A hall of fame coach could get this roster into the playoffs if it gets healthy. How fortunate are we that Hitchcock was available?

Are the numbers at the start your gradings of periods?

Anyway I'm a Hitch fan of sorts. I don't mind an experienced coach like Hitch or Trotz that has always had teams play better. I never felt McLellan was that great as you know.

That said its too early to say that his coaching improvement is enough to overcome line up issues. So far we've been riding spectacular best in the league goaltending, 13 goal season from Chiasson, PPG Khaira lately.

Theres a lot predicated right now on things very unlikely to continue.

Also not to forget until last night Hitch was playing guys like Draisaitl 25mins/night every game and Connor too much as well. Theres a shelf life for that stuff.

He did however give Nuge rest these past couple games and Brodz actually getting slightly more toi which is somewhat bizarre.

Unless Lucic rediscovers how to play at his peak, which is extremely remote, we still have very limited core forwards. We now have a grossly damaged D and that's going to be a problem before long as well.

Like I've said we can be in the playoff convo, but its going to go down to the wire. its going to take every last drop of everybody.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

GAA and save % between the 2 also stat that Koskinen wins 4-3 last night.

And then Talbot starts tonight and we lose.

Guess 2 points > 3 points in some people's world.

And for all your talk about stats, Hellybuck had a worse sv% than Talbot last night.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

The Talbot criticism is ridiculous. He's had a solid 4 game stretch now.
The Jets completely rolled us in the 3rd period, and we still got a point strictly because Talbot showed up.

 

[CupofOil]

Well its because he never gave up the lead last game, so he did his job perfectly fine.

Talbot gave up a 1 goal lead twice last night.

And also made 16 saves in the 3rd just to get that game to OT but the peanut gallery conveniently ignores that.

I say this while also adding that he gave up 2 bad goals (Laine and Morrissey) so no bias here. I like to see both sides of it unlike some people.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You mean that goal that went in off a defender's skate? Maybe Talbot's not using his psychic powers enough.

Yeah, so much groaning about the game and that own goal was really the difference. Without which maybe the Oilers even W in reg time.

That said, people are expecting too much saving between the pipes. You get it once in awhile but the last month or so its to the point of ridiculous. We are getting outshot in nearly every game and the goaltending is almost always being the difference for us. Not a sustainable formula. You take the pts and be happy, but the team play has to be optimal for this team to have a chance. Quite clearly the Oilers again started this game last night not playing their best and giving up 2 goals in the first. How quickly this team forgets that it often only scores 1 or 2 goals in a game. We gave up the tenable amount of GA in the first damned period. Despite recent games this Oilers club has a lot of trouble scoring goals. But they forget that completely after a couple games in which they've been able to score.

The frustrating part is how quickly this team becomes casual about such things.

 

[GMofOilers]

And also made 16 saves in the 3rd just to get that game to OT but the peanut gallery conveniently ignores that.

I say this while also adding that he gave up 2 bad goals (Laine and Morrissey) so no bias here. I like to see both sides of it unlike some people.

Goalies are suppose to make saves no?

sub 900 save last night isnt the reason we got to OT. Its the reason we lost.

 

[FlameChampion]

I'm just talking about last night and I know that Koskinen is the better goalie.

I'm just talking about the double standard around when it comes to certain players. You said a goalie needs to keep the goals down to 2 or 3 yet Koskinen let in 4 the previous game with two being very stoppable yet not a peep from.some about those soft goals.

Lol at "not a problem" that Koskinen wins that game last night. Did you see the 3rd period? That would have been a problem for any goalie in the league. I'm more confident with Koskinen in net but that was a very difficult goalie game for the Oilers.

The one thing with Koskinen that I have seen so far is that he seems much stronger mentally. He seems to move on quicker from a bad goal. He also mentioned that he doesnt care about his statistics, all he cares is about winning. He seems to just make the saves when they are needed. Seems like theres something about finnish personality which translates well for goalies (unless its Rask).

Talbot has seemed better under Hitchcock. He didnt lose the game last night and he didnt win it either. Main thing with him is that he just seems much more fragile mentally. He gets rattled easier and cant seem to move on bad goals or bad games that well. I think we need to be patient with Talbot and try and get him to work on his focus and confidence with Hitchcock. Talbot is trending in the right direction. Its a long season, we will probably need him at some point.