Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi Part 10: Connor's RW

[CycloneSweep]

Wait are people using a single goal to discredit Zaddys points?

Zaddy is probably one of the most knowledgeable posters here and actually watches the player like some here.

You know people can question a player's ability in an aspect and still love the player right? Like Jesus.

Puljujarvis finishing ability needs work. Period. That's not a knock on the player, he isn't a complete package.

You know who else needed work on finishing and isn't a bad player McDavid. You know who worked on it and fixed it, McDavid.

Just because someone sees some flaws in a players game that doesn't mean they dislike the player, think they are shit or like...any of that

Some people here get far too defensive of Pulju and act like his game is perfect and so good. If Pulju was actually that player, he would have far more points than he does right now. Doesn't make him a bad player, makes him young and ever evolving.

Jesus.

 

[gordonhught]

That sounds super.

like

 

[Whyme]

Some people here get far too defensive of Pulju and act like his game is perfect and so good. If Pulju was actually that player, he would have far more points than he does right now. Doesn't make him a bad player, makes him young and ever evolving.

I agree with you and the exciting thing is there still seems to be room for developing. The other side of the coin is that Pulju has played at the rate of 27 or 28 goals per full season when with McDavid. He hasn't got much PP time, but each year he's had it his PP goals/60 has been among the top three of the team.

I'm know I'm stretching this a bit, but if Pulju kept the same PP goal scoring rate and had as much PP time as the top PP guys he would've scored 12 PP goals per full season. I guess some think I'm being ridiculous, but basically that'd be 10 extra goals per full season.

Please don't take me too seriously, before Pulju actually has one full 30 goal season there's no point with going much further. But things can get very interesting if he manages to get his finishing better.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I agree with you and the exciting thing is there still seems to be room for developing. The other side of the coin is that Pulju has played at the rate of 27 or 28 goals per full season when with McDavid. He hasn't got much PP time, but each year he's had it his PP goals/60 has been among the top three of the team.

I'm know I'm stretching this a bit, but if Pulju kept the same PP goal scoring rate and had as much PP time as the top PP guys he would've scored 12 PP goals per full season. I guess some think I'm being ridiculous, but basically that'd be 10 extra goals per full season.

Please don't take me too seriously, before Pulju actually has one full 30 goal season there's no point with going much further. But things can get very interesting if he manages to get his finishing better.

Can't at all look at PP scoring rates when the sample size is infinitely tiny.

Pulju definitely isn't bad but his scoring ability could use improvement. If he is able to work on it (he should) he could end up being a 30-40 goal guy. If not he may hover between 20-25. Not that it's a bad thing, but I'd love for him to keep working.

 

[Whyme]

Can't at all look at PP scoring rates when the sample size is infinitely tiny.

Pulju definitely isn't bad but his scoring ability could use improvement. If he is able to work on it (he should) he could end up being a 30-40 point guy. If not he may hover between 20-25. Not that it's a bad thing, but I'd love for him to keep working.

Yeah I'd love that too. We're on the same page here, but a couple of quick notes.

The sample size is really low, but at what point do many small sample sizes form a larger one that maybe has at least some meaning... When you put those seasons together they do form a bit larger sample size. Hopefully in a year we won't have to talk about small sample sizes anyway, I just think it's worth noting it might not be just coincidence he's always scored at a good rate for the PP time he's got.

You talk about points but I guess you mean goals. I still think the total amount depends on if he gets to play in the first line and if he gets more PP time. And if he stays healthy.

 

[Daryls Friend]

Wait are people using a single goal to discredit Zaddys points?

Zaddy is probably one of the most knowledgeable posters here and actually watches the player like some here.

You know people can question a player's ability in an aspect and still love the player right? Like Jesus.

Puljujarvis finishing ability needs work. Period. That's not a knock on the player, he isn't a complete package.

You know who else needed work on finishing and isn't a bad player McDavid. You know who worked on it and fixed it, McDavid.

Just because someone sees some flaws in a players game that doesn't mean they dislike the player, think they are shit or like...any of that

Some people here get far too defensive of Pulju and act like his game is perfect and so good. If Pulju was actually that player, he would have far more points than he does right now. Doesn't make him a bad player, makes him young and ever evolving.

Jesus.

Whatever you do, don't question Puju's release. Even when you have/are complimenting him.
Hell hath no fury.....

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Can't at all look at PP scoring rates when the sample size is infinitely tiny.

Pulju definitely isn't bad but his scoring ability could use improvement. If he is able to work on it (he should) he could end up being a 30-40 point guy. If not he may hover between 20-25. Not that it's a bad thing, but I'd love for him to keep working.

So, he may hover at a rate far lower than he's scoring this year?

His pace this year is 38-39 points in a 82 game schedule.

 

[XXIV97]

Puljujarvi does fumble the puck a couple of times a game which isn't ideal. I think we are only seeing about 65% of his potential.

 

[CycloneSweep]

So, he may hover at a rate far lower than he's scoring this year?

His pace this year is 38-39 points in a 82 game schedule.

I gotta edit that, I meant goals lol

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I gotta edit that, I meant goals lol

Fair enough, post makes alot more sense now.

I agree, even if he just stays around a 20-20 or 25-25 guy, that is extremely valuable with how good defensively he is.

If he can develop a mean streak, even better, he's turning into a tank on skates.

 

[PulYou]

@Zaddy has been consistently providing the best prospect information for this board for years. If I'm not mistaken, he was a professional scout at one point. If you disagree with Zaddy, that's fine - but don't insult his commitment, intelligence, or time spent to share this information with us.

I am sorry to provoke here. I am not sold if I detect logical fallacies. ”He must have it right because he may have been a scout” and ”I know what I am talking about, because I have been following him so long” and ”Million times”... I have watched myself on repeat many of his goals. If I were scout I would not have time to do it with one player only.
I for one immediately think, that have You been by the rink side since 2014? What is the sample side from 2014?
Puck flobbing and shorter stick... come on!
There are more factors why he didn’t score in the NHL when he first entered. See Laine for example now. Looks like he doesn’t know how to score...
Last season in Liiga Pulju started to score again. One could see he was hesitant at first. He had no confidence. As the season progressed his confidence grew and the goals were (lack of a better word) smoother.
And about that stick length. One of the aspect of his game is his long reach. Does he lose something if he shortens his stick?

 

[Nostradumbass]

I am sorry to provoke here. I am not sold if I detect logical fallacies. ”He must have it right because he may have been a scout” and ”I know what I am talking about, because I have been following him so long” and ”Million times”... I have watched myself on repeat many of his goals. If I were scout I would not have time to do it with one player only.
I for one immediately think, that have You been by the rink side since 2014? What is the sample side from 2014?
Puck flobbing and shorter stick... come on!
There are more factors why he didn’t score in the NHL when he first entered. See Laine for example now. Looks like he doesn’t know how to score...
Last season in Liiga Pulju started to score again. One could see he was hesitant at first. He had no confidence. As the season progressed his confidence grew and the goals were (lack of a better word) smoother.
And about that stick length. One of the aspect of his game is his long reach. Does he lose something if he shortens his stick?

You don’t have to agree with Zaddy, but at least show the poster some respect. Maybe some of this is lost in translation, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not trying to be an asshole.

 

[PulYou]

You don’t have to agree with Zaddy, but at least show the poster some respect. Maybe some of this is lost in translation, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not trying to be an asshole.

The way he showed to @walktheboulavard?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

No need to get personal and take shots at fellow posters. Disagreements and debate is fine, crapping on other posters is not.

 

[SaltNPeca]

"bad hands Jesse" reminds me of "slow, lazy, bad D Draisaitl"
Stick looks to be the correct length for a 6'3" player (freeze the vid @ 0:46)

I'm all for critiquing young players. If this was coaching feedback 1:1 presented in a constructive way it's all good. The risk and problem I see is these narratives permeating the fanbase, where influential fans are some hockey GM/Coach/Scout wanna be spreading primarily negative vibes around our young players and fanbase.

Most young players have room for improvement, only some will "get there", very very few will do everything right and excel in the best hockey league in the world. I don't think it helps to focus so much on the negatives, as this stuff ends up on social media and in front of the young players eyes (even if they are working on it and improving)

That said: I'd like to see more of the below from Jesse! Great young player, with a big upside. Looking for him to be a major factor in our 2021 cup run!

 

[Zaddy]

"bad hands Jesse" reminds me of "slow, lazy, bad D Draisaitl"
Stick looks to be the correct length for a 6'3" player (freeze the vid @ 0:46)

I'm all for critiquing young players. If this was coaching feedback 1:1 presented in a constructive way it's all good. The risk and problem I see is these narratives permeating the fanbase, where influential fans are some hockey GM/Coach/Scout wanna be spreading primarily negative vibes around our young players and fanbase.

Most young players have room for improvement, only some will "get there", very very few will do everything right and excel in the best hockey league in the world. I don't think it helps to focus so much on the negatives, as this stuff ends up on social media and in front of the young players eyes (even if they are working on it and improving)

That said: I'd like to see more of the below from Jesse! Great young player, with a big upside. Looking for him to be a major factor in our 2021 cup run!

Give me a break lol. Pointing out an area of improvement in a player's game that could turn said player from a good one to a great one = being toxic?

I'm very happy the way Jesse's game has been trending and the fact that he took the (presumed) criticism/feedback from Holland and Tippett (and whoever else has influenced him) to heart and really worked on his game and accepted that he doesn't need to be the skill guy on his line but instead is fine with doing the 'dirty work' along the boards, in front of the net and defensively. I have lots of praise for that kind of attitude.

Also, to put this on record since we're talking about 'spreading negative vibes', I never once blamed Pulju or tried to character assassinate him when he went back to Finland unlike some other posters here. I thought it was the right move both for him and the organization, and as far as I can remember I don't think I ever supported trading him. I wanted him back, as long as he'd keep working on his game while in Finland and showed a willingness to adapt, which he evidently has done.

In short: I like Pulju and have nothing against him. I like where he is trending and I think there's a very real possibility he hits 30 goals next year if he continues to improve at the same rate.

 

[fancy dan]

my issue with the scrutiny of this player is that a certain poster is claiming to have a read on his ability to finish by a collection of anecdotal observations over time.... i too have anecdotally watched #13 for years and have a completely different standpoint.

 

[Daryls Friend]

my issue with the scrutiny of this player is that a certain poster is claiming to have a read on his ability to finish by a collection of anecdotal observations over time.... i too have anecdotally watched #13 for years and have a completely different standpoint.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions (to sate the obvious) based on their anecdotal observations, or more in depth observations. The problem lies imo is that unless you are a full on cult member, even when you compliment the guy, but also provide some other opinions, you are a hater. Or unfair. Or a troll.
Its ridiculous.

 

[Zaddy]

my issue with the scrutiny of this player is that a certain poster is claiming to have a read on his ability to finish by a collection of anecdotal observations over time.... i too have anecdotally watched #13 for years and have a completely different standpoint.

That's hockey. You have NHL scouts who have completely different takes on top prospects every year. Read HockeyProspect's Black Book and you'll see one NHL scout praising a player for his skating and another one finding it to be a weakness. It's not an exact science. Furthermore when terms like 'skating' or 'hockey sense' or 'finishing ability' are being used it's not overly illuminating as to what is specifically meant by that and different people have different understandings and ideas of what those terms actually mean.

 

[fancy dan]

right, so is #13 a good or bad finisher ?

 

[Zaddy]

right, so is #13 a good or bad finisher ?

Some people think he is, others don't. Not sure why you're trying to stir something up that's already been debated ad nauseam by now.

 

[Aceboogie]

I am JPs biggest supporter, but even I can see he is having troubles finishing right now. He fumbles the puck and his timing on wrist shots is off sometimes

However, I do think players can improve this skill in the offseason. So that is why I am extremely bullish on JP. His biggest flaw is (generally) fixable, and if he improves on these fumbles, or finishin, he will be popping in 30 goals beside McDavid. And hell, even if he doesnt improve finishing ability at all and this is the best we get, I am still very, very happy with his play. He is a stud defensivley and his complete level and overall awareness is good and top line quality

But JP with better finishing, is a very good top line winger. He already brings to the table pretty much everything else

 

[Aceboogie]

Getting away from that debate, I am very excited to watch Jesse in the playoffs.

if you were to design a perfect playoff player, it would to be Jesse P to a T

Relentless motor: check
Good defensively: check
Skill and smarts: check
Size & Physicality (and ability to play a puck-possession game): check

He does also have a good shot and I wold say that brings another dangerous element (even if sometimes he doesnt get it off in time)

 

[McDreamy]

I see exactly what Zaddy is talking about in regards to Pulju's ability to finish. He has some trouble with pucks in tight areas. I've always thought his stick was too long, but he uses it so effectively without the puck that I'd hesitate to change the length much. This is probably the only thing keeping him from being a star in this league right now, and I expect that we will see improvement in this facet of his game in the next year or two.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Jesse is currently sitting at a 13.5% shooting %. While his game may not look smooth at times, typically poor finishers don't shoot that high. Taylor Hall who I consider a poor finisher for a star player has only shot over 13% twice in his career and the only time that he bettered Jesse's current shooting % was in his Hart winning season.

IMO he needs to work on getting his shot off quicker on the rush when carrying the puck, but beyond that he's doing fine finishing wise.