Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part 5, Jesse Bumped Up the Line-up

[nabob]

I hate to see him 15-20 pounds heavier. His first steps aren't exactly that fast as it is.

Depends where and how he add the mass. He could add 15-20 pounds of muscle to his core and legs and he would probably have a faster first step/s.

 

[Zaddy]

I really hate this type of uninformed and narrow minded argument.

Actually he grew to 6’5” by most reports coming into camp this year and was down from his 212lbs weight. He was and still is a lanky kid. Very disingenuous of you to draw the line at 18/19 and leave him out because he is 20. A man doesn’t fill out until his early 20’s and in Nurses case it’s obvious that he has filled out the last year.

Ok, so you really believe his game will change fundamentally if he just gains a couple of pounds and get this mystical and magical "fill out" of his body? I think that's a rather naive and incredibly optimistic view of things.

How much has Nurse improved over the years as he has "filled out"? If anything it seems like he is less physical and using his body less these days than before. Everyone kept telling me how he was gonna be a beast once he filled out. He is still very much the same player he always was.

Going back to Pulju...do you really believe his issues stem from a lack of weight / filling out / man-strength or whatever you want to call it rather than working on his core strength (which has nothing to do with weight or "filling out") and specific aspects of his game, such as learning how to be strong in the corners (not meaning in relation to strength but rather how to angle himself, use his body more effectively etc), win puck battles or find a way to get his shot off more?

To me it seems very odd to think that weight has anything to do with Pulju's struggles. Again, the NHL has changed, it's not a league that cares very much about size or being strong and tough anymore, you have to be smart and skilled, so I think this whole mindset of "filling out" is stupid 90% of the time since it really won't change much. You need to be smart and skilled, not necessarily strong, to be successful in todays game, and in that department Pulju has a lot of work to do and it is IMO the largest inhibitor on his play right now.

 

[frag2]

I really hate this type of uninformed and narrow minded argument.

Actually he grew to 6’5” by most reports coming into camp this year and was down from his 212lbs weight. He was and still is a lanky kid. Very disingenuous of you to draw the line at 18/19 and leave him out because he is 20. A man doesn’t fill out until his early 20’s and in Nurses case it’s obvious that he has filled out the last year.

Filling out won't change a damn if he can't process the game properly.

 

[OiledUp]

Ok, so you really believe his game will change fundamentally if he just gains a couple of pounds and get this mystical and magical "fill out" of his body? I think that's a rather naive and incredibly optimistic view of things.

How much has Nurse improved over the years as he has "filled out"? If anything it seems like he is less physical and using his body less these days than before. Everyone kept telling me how he was gonna be a beast once he filled out. He is still very much the same player he always was.

Going back to Pulju...do you really believe his issues stem from a lack of weight / filling out / man-strength or whatever you want to call it rather than working on his core strength (which has nothing to do with weight or "filling out") and specific aspects of his game, such as learning how to be strong in the corners (not meaning in relation to strength but rather how to angle himself, use his body more effectively etc), win puck battles or find a way to get his shot off more?

To me it seems very odd to think that weight has anything to do with Pulju's struggles. Again, the NHL has changed, it's not a league that cares very much about size or being strong and tough anymore, you have to be smart and skilled, so I think this whole mindset of "filling out" is stupid 90% of the time since it really won't change much. You need to be smart and skilled, not necessarily strong, to be successful in todays game, and in that department Pulju has a lot of work to do and it is IMO the largest inhibitor on his play right now.

Growing into your body doesn't really mean filling out or adding mass. It means getting re-coordinated after your teenage growth, it has more to do with proprioception than strength. Can take longer for guys who are tall, with long limbs and/or have a late growth spurt. All of which happens to apply to Jesse and a big reason it was a mistake to bring him over early.
Will "growing into his body" magically fix his game? No, but it's a valid point when discussing his developement.

Anyone else happen to remember Chara at 21? Prime example of a guy who had yet to regain full control of his massive limbs. He turned out ok.

Not saying Jesse = Chara. Just saying some guys need time past their 20th birthday and still turn out at the high end.

 

[nabob]

Ok, so you really believe his game will change fundamentally if he just gains a couple of pounds and get this mystical and magical "fill out" of his body? I think that's a rather naive and incredibly optimistic view of things.

How much has Nurse improved over the years as he has "filled out"? If anything it seems like he is less physical and using his body less these days than before. Everyone kept telling me how he was gonna be a beast once he filled out. He is still very much the same player he always was.

Going back to Pulju...do you really believe his issues stem from a lack of weight / filling out / man-strength or whatever you want to call it rather than working on his core strength (which has nothing to do with weight or "filling out") and specific aspects of his game, such as learning how to be strong in the corners (not meaning in relation to strength but rather how to angle himself, use his body more effectively etc), win puck battles or find a way to get his shot off more?

To me it seems very odd to think that weight has anything to do with Pulju's struggles. Again, the NHL has changed, it's not a league that cares very much about size or being strong and tough anymore, you have to be smart and skilled, so I think this whole mindset of "filling out" is stupid 90% of the time since it really won't change much. You need to be smart and skilled, not necessarily strong, to be successful in todays game, and in that department Pulju has a lot of work to do and it is IMO the largest inhibitor on his play right now.

How much has Nurse improved since he filled out? A TON. If you can’t see how much Nurse has improved in the last year and a half then there’s no point in talking to you. It’s so stupid when posters judge a player based off their 18/19 year old seasons as if they are finished developing like you are with Jesse.

 

[nabob]

Growing into your body doesn't really mean filling out or adding mass. It means getting re-coordinated after your teenage growth, it has more to do with proprioception than strength. Can take longer for guys who are tall, with long limbs and/or have a late growth spurt. All of which happens to apply to Jesse and a big reason it was a mistake to bring him over early.
Will "growing into his body" magically fix his game? No, but it's a valid point when discussing his developement.

Anyone else happen to remember Chara at 21? Prime example of a guy who had yet to regain full control of his massive limbs. He turned out ok.

Not saying Jesse = Chara. Just saying some guys need time past their 20th birthday and still turn out at the high end.

Nope once a player turns 20 he can no longer develop according to some posters.

 

[nabob]

Filling out won't change a damn if he can't process the game properly.

A good coach seems to be helping him a lot in that regard. Guess we’ll see. We’ll see if you’re a smarter hockey mind than Hitchcock is. I’m betting you aren’t.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Weight isn't JP's problem. His problem is weak skating, lack of hockey IQ and confidence. Wouldn't surprise me if he's done in the NHL for at least a couple of years maybe and heads back to Finland. Unless there's a major turn around before the year's over I think he's done with the Oilers for awhile come the end of his ELC. Huge disappointment mostly so far.

 

[Zaddy]

How much has Nurse improved since he filled out? A TON. If you can’t see how much Nurse has improved in the last year and a half then there’s no point in talking to you.

He has improved as a player, but how much does it stem from "filling out" vs actually gaining experience in the league? As I said, I think he's less physical now than he used to be, and you don't really see him muscling guys around like he did in juniors. But you make the assumption that filling out was the reason for his improvement in play? That's pretty odd. What do you base that on? His style of play doesn't reflect it.

It’s so stupid when posters judge a player based off their 18/19 year old seasons as if they are finished developing like you are with Jesse.

Oh please, spare me. I've watched this kid for a long time, probably way longer than you. To insinuate that I'm judging him from his 18/19 year old season is hilarious. The problems I have with Jesse goes back from way before he ever was an Oiler. None of the flaws he had back then has been addressed, and unlike you I don't believe just "filling out" or "growing into his body" or whatever term you want to use is going to magically fix it.

 

[Zaddy]

Growing into your body doesn't really mean filling out or adding mass. It means getting re-coordinated after your teenage growth, it has more to do with proprioception than strength. Can take longer for guys who are tall, with long limbs and/or have a late growth spurt. All of which happens to apply to Jesse and a big reason it was a mistake to bring him over early.
Will "growing into his body" magically fix his game? No, but it's a valid point when discussing his developement.

Anyone else happen to remember Chara at 21? Prime example of a guy who had yet to regain full control of his massive limbs. He turned out ok.

Not saying Jesse = Chara. Just saying some guys need time past their 20th birthday and still turn out at the high end.

Sure, but it's not going to magically fix his game. What it MIGHT do is allow him to go from the very unproductive player and fringe NHLer that he is right now to someone who at least can score 35-45 points a year. The assumption that he just needs to fill out to become a beast of a player is ludicrous. He has so many issues in his game that has very little to do with growing into your body.

Keep in mind that the guy is on pace for 16 points and in his first 3 seasons of the league seem to have 20 points as his career-high. I'd love to see a list of guys who had those numbers in their first 3 years in the league and turned out to be a high-end player after "filling out".

If you look at a guy like Blake Wheeler who generally people seem to like to use as an example still had 21 goals and 45 points in his rookie year. Huge difference.

I mean you can look at Laine too. Also a huge kid who in my mind was less coordinated than Jesse in their respective draft years (a difference that was even more pronounced in the year prior to that) and he's doing just fine for a 20 year old 6'4, 200 lbs kid. The point being that if you actually have high-end upside you will show at least glimpses or stretches of it in your first couple of years in the league. Jesse hasn't done that and I don't buy that it's just about coordination. It's a weak excuse frankly.

 

[nabob]

He has improved as a player, but how much does it stem from "filling out" vs actually gaining experience in the league? As I said, I think he's less physical now than he used to be, and you don't really see him muscling guys around like he did in juniors. But you make the assumption that filling out was the reason for his improvement in play? That's pretty odd. What do you base that on? His style of play doesn't reflect it.



Oh please, spare me. I've watched this kid for a long time, probably way longer than you. To insinuate that I'm judging him from his 18/19 year old season is hilarious. The problems I have with Jesse goes back from way before he ever was an Oiler. None of the flaws he had back then has been addressed, and unlike you I don't believe just "filling out" or "growing into his body" or whatever term you want to use is going to magically fix it.

Did you watch the last game? Yeah Nurse tossed Henrique like he was an ant. He picks and chooses his spots a lot better and doesn’t have to prove himself anymore.

I have never said that Jesse filling out and gaining coordination will magically fix everything. That’s a weak straw man that you just made up. But please continue to write a player off because of his play as a 14-17 year old, seeing as how you just said your problems with him are from long before he was an Oiler. Just when it seemed that writing a player off for his play as an 18 year old was the dumbest thing I’ve seen you prove you can eclipse that by writing him off because of his play as a child.

 

[frag2]

A good coach seems to be helping him a lot in that regard. Guess we’ll see. We’ll see if you’re a smarter hockey mind than Hitchcock is. I’m betting you aren’t.

Always the smart ass .
I guess thats what happens when you're a fan of the player and not the team .

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Always the smart ass .
I guess thats what happens when you're a fan of the player and not the team .

This makes no sense.

Maybe he wants the player to play better cause it will help the team win?

 

[bobbythebrain]

How much has Nurse improved since he filled out? A TON. If you can’t see how much Nurse has improved in the last year and a half then there’s no point in talking to you. It’s so stupid when posters judge a player based off their 18/19 year old seasons as if they are finished developing like you are with Jesse.

Jesus what a horrible argument.

Nurse has improved cuz of progression(200 games), and in the last year and a half, MAINLY b/c of Adam Oates. The big leap in his game can be traced right to that summer w/ Oates. The big leap in his game was a mental improvement, not a physical one

JP's fundamental improvement as a player in the NHL will be mental. Filling out more physically will have very little to do w/ it

 

[nabob]

Always the smart ass .
I guess thats what happens when you're a fan of the player and not the team .

Well that’s a dumb comment. Been a huge fan long before Jesse was even born.

 

[nabob]

Jesus what a horrible argument.

Nurse has improved cuz of progression(200 games), and in the last year and a half, MAINLY b/c of Adam Oates. The big leap in his game can be traced right to that summer w/ Oates. The big leap in his game was a mental improvement, not a physical one

JP's fundamental improvement as a player in the NHL will be mental. Filling out more physically will have very little to do w/ it

So let’s all be like Zaddy and write him off because of his play as a child. That’s a much better argument.

 

[OiledUp]

Sure, but it's not going to magically fix his game. What it MIGHT do is allow him to go from the very unproductive player and fringe NHLer that he is right now to someone who at least can score 35-45 points a year. The assumption that he just needs to fill out to become a beast of a player is ludicrous. He has so many issues in his game that has very little to do with growing into your body.

Keep in mind that the guy is on pace for 16 points and in his first 3 seasons of the league seem to have 20 points as his career-high. I'd love to see a list of guys who had those numbers in their first 3 years in the league and turned out to be a high-end player after "filling out".

If you look at a guy like Blake Wheeler who generally people seem to like to use as an example still had 21 goals and 45 points in his rookie year. Huge difference.

I mean you can look at Laine too. Also a huge kid who in my mind was less coordinated than Jesse in their respective draft years (a difference that was even more pronounced in the year prior to that) and he's doing just fine for a 20 year old 6'4, 200 lbs kid. The point being that if you actually have high-end upside you will show at least glimpses or stretches of it in your first couple of years in the league. Jesse hasn't done that and I don't buy that it's just about coordination. It's a weak excuse frankly.

Laine had his last big growth spurt at 16 though. Jesse still grew in his draft +1 year. Not everyone goes through their late teens with their limbs all over the place but some do, to my eye Jesse looks like one of those people. It's not all about coordination but I think it could make huge difference alongside confidence.
Like you I've watched them both for a long time, I still think Jesse will be one hell of a player at 23, way beyond a 40ish point player, but time will tell. I just think we'll have to agree to disagree. Not really interested in making excuses, was just making a point based on what I see withrregards to the player.

Blake Wheeler was 22 in his rookie year btw. When next season starts Jesse will be 21. I'd argue it's way too early to make a final call just because the Oilers put him in the NHL before he was ready. Doubt Wheeler would have done much in his 18, 19 year old seasons when he couldn't crack ppg in the ushl and barely was over 0.5 ppg in the ncaa respectively.
Different players have different timelines.

 

[Zaddy]

I have never said that Jesse filling out and gaining coordination will magically fix everything. That’s a weak straw man that you just made up.

Lol. It was you who attacked me and my argument when I said in a general sense that a lot of people seem to think that "filling out" fixes everything. And now you call me out on strawman? You can't have it both ways. Either don't attack the post where I said exactly that thing, implying that you heavily disagree with it, or don't call it strawman...

But please continue to write a player off because of his play as a 14-17 year old, seeing as how you just said your problems with him are from long before he was an Oiler. Just when it seemed that writing a player off for his play as an 18 year old was the dumbest thing I’ve seen you prove you can eclipse that by writing him off because of his play as a child.

You're one of the worst posters to have an argument on here with because you can never keep to the discussion but instead resort to ad hominem type posts as well as putting words in people's mouths.

You also attack this argument in a REALLY odd way. I said I had followed him for a long time, and in your mind that was equal to me writing him off as a 14-17 year old? Huh? No, what it implies is that I have followed him since he was 16 UP UNTIL THIS POINT where he is 20 going on 21 and I STILL SEE the same issues I did then as I do now. Which is why I ARGUE that growing into his body won't make a huge difference in his game as the issues he has stems from other things. Why is this so hard to grasp for you?

 

[frag2]

This makes no sense.

Maybe he wants the player to play better cause it will help the team win?

The poster will do anything to defend JP including blame other players. It's never JP's fault if you haven't read her posts.

I'm sure everyone wants him to succeed but I dont see why it's always so hostile when someone mentions he lacks this or that

 

[frag2]

Lol. It was you who attacked me and my argument when I said in a general sense that a lot of people seem to think that "filling out" fixes everything. And now you call me out on strawman? You can't have it both ways. Either don't attack the post where I said exactly that thing, implying that you heavily disagree with it, or don't call it strawman...



You're one of the worst posters to have an argument on here with because you can never keep to the discussion but instead resort to ad hominem type posts as well as putting words in people's mouths.

You also attack this argument in a REALLY odd way. I said I had followed him for a long time, and in your mind that was equal to me writing him off as a 14-17 year old? Huh? No, what it implies is that I have followed him since he was 16 UP UNTIL THIS POINT where he is 20 going on 21 and I STILL SEE the same issues I did then as I do now. Which is why I ARGUE that growing into his body won't make a huge difference in his game as the issues he has stems from other things. Why is this so hard to grasp for you?

There's no point. According to that poster, any criticism directed towards JP is bashing. Even mentioning doubt is bashing.
Eerily similar to Narnia and Lowe.

 

[nabob]

Lol. It was you who attacked me and my argument when I said in a general sense that a lot of people seem to think that "filling out" fixes everything. And now you call me out on strawman? You can't have it both ways. Either don't attack the post where I said exactly that thing, implying that you heavily disagree with it, or don't call it strawman...



You're one of the worst posters to have an argument on here with because you can never keep to the discussion but instead resort to ad hominem type posts as well as putting words in people's mouths.

You also attack this argument in a REALLY odd way. I said I had followed him for a long time, and in your mind that was equal to me writing him off as a 14-17 year old? Huh? No, what it implies is that I have followed him since he was 16 UP UNTIL THIS POINT where he is 20 going on 21 and I STILL SEE the same issues I did then as I do now. Which is why I ARGUE that growing into his body won't make a huge difference in his game as the issues he has stems from other things. Why is this so hard to grasp for you?

The problem is that you insist on having an argument instead of a discussion. You can’t handle people disagreeing with you and claim you’re being attacked. It’s really too much

 

[nabob]

There's no point. According to that poster, any criticism directed towards JP is bashing. Even mentioning doubt is bashing.
Eerily similar to Narnia and Lowe.

Hahaha ok Frag. I have repeatedly stated that JP has many flaws but you insist on being ignorant and choose to take pot shot and flame me instead of having a discussion.

Hell I can’t even mention that Hitchcock is a superior coach to McLellan without you acting up and going on some rant about how I’m not an Oilers fan, just a Puljujarvi fan. That’s some DSF/Replacement level posting from you.

 

[nabob]

Jesse has a great game, scores again and all this thread is a bunch of ignorance and trolling. Good grief. It’s funny how so many posters get so triggered when he plays well. It’s like some people truly do want him to fail. Just so their thoughts about him as a U16 player can be justified.

The same posters who thought Drai was a bust after his rookie season and wished the Oilers drafted Bennett. The same posters who scream “no hockey IQ” every time Nurse doesn’t score on a rush. The same posters who seem to find more enjoyment when players struggle than when the team is winning.

 

[backhandsauce]

Wish he would change his number. He wore 39 for a stint.

 

[frag2]

Hahaha ok Frag. I have repeatedly stated that JP has many flaws but you insist on being ignorant and choose to take pot shot and flame me instead of having a discussion.

Hell I can’t even mention that Hitchcock is a superior coach to McLellan without you acting up and going on some rant about how I’m not an Oilers fan, just a Puljujarvi fan. That’s some DSF/Replacement level posting from you.

Anyone that criticizes JP, you get worked up. He's on his 4th coach. He's scoring at an even worse rate than he did under TMac AND getting more opportunities. But hey keep fighting the good fight. He's clearly not progressing-looks better but not much to show for where it counts. Either he was playing the game incorrectly in the FEL or he's just not good enough for the NHL.

We all want him to succeed but with each passing game, we're left wanting more and coming out disappointed. Can't wait to hear what excuse you'll make if he ends up with less points under Hitchcock. It's Hitch's fault now right?