Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Staaled Out Edition

[MarkovsKnee]

My original post (a couple of pages back) was directed at a poster who claimed that KK was playing well enough to not hurt the team. It had nothing to do with Staal vs KK.

KK's numbers aren't that bad. Staal's are horrific. And, you know that.

 

[Habs Icing]

It boggles the mind that we waived a 22-year-old D, so that we could add Gustafsson.

Which also caused all kinds of cap problems.

Those were not management's intentions. They waived Mete believing he would go through without being picked up. It was a gamble. A bad gamble in my opinion.

 

[azcanuck]

Danault's effectiveness was likely mostly due to playing with Gallagher.

C'mon man. Gally is a beast but it's Danault's defensive awareness that is top rate. He sucks offensively but his analytics against both McJesus and Matthews are big time.

 

[Habs Icing]

KK's numbers aren't that bad. Staal's are horrific. And, you know that.

I go mainly by the eye test and KK stunk to high heaven. And as I said in the last couple of games Staal was more useful than KK.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Those were not management's intentions. They waived Mete believing he would go through without being picked up. It was a gamble. A bad gamble in my opinion.

He was never going to pass. It was ridiculous to think so. Poor management.

I go mainly by the eye test and KK stunk to high heaven. And as I said in the last couple of games Staal was more useful than KK.

You were the one who was arguing based on stats!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

My original post (a couple of pages back) was directed at a poster who claimed that KK was playing well enough to not hurt the team. It had nothing to do with Staal vs KK.

And that poster was right.

Relative to his teammates, KK drives the play in the opposing zone. Raw numbers his CF% is 55%. Those are strong numbers. He largely helps us on the ice. The puck is in the other team's zone most of the time.

Staal's numbers suck. Forget the raw numbers becaue he was stuck in Buffalo but relative to his teammates the puck is going to be in our zone most of the time. -2.6 is pretty bad. There's simply no way to justify him over KK.

As for the "eye test" I remember people talking about the intangibles of Douglas Murray. Meanwhile we got outchanced to the tune of like 8 to 1 while he was on the ice vs Boston in the playoffs before MT finally pulled his head out of his ass to sit him.

Why the hell should we stake the Leafs an advantage here? It's going to be hard enough to beat them as it is.

 

[Archijerej]

Apparently, after his third NHL season our 3rd OA pick is not good enough to crack the lineup. Our brass sure has reasons to feel proud of themselves.

 

[The Great Weal]

C'mon man. Gally is a beast but it's Danault's defensive awareness that is top rate. He sucks offensively but his analytics against both McJesus and Matthews are big time.

He really likes comparing Danault to KK. I would personally hope that KK can do more offensively than Danault with a lesser environment as a 3rd overall pick, but I guess people have different expectations.

 

[Habs Icing]

And that poster was right.

Relative to his teammates, KK drives the play in the opposing zone. Raw numbers his CF% is 55%. Those are strong numbers. He largely helps us on the ice. The puck is in the other team's zone most of the time.

Staal's numbers suck. Forget the raw numbers becaue he was stuck in Buffalo but relative to his teammates the puck is going to be in our zone most of the time. -2.6 is pretty bad. There's simply no way to justify him over KK.

As for the "eye test" I remember people talking about the intangibles of Douglas Murray. Meanwhile we got outchanced to the tune of like 8 to 1 while he was on the ice vs Boston in the playoffs before MT finally pulled his head out of his ass to sit him.

Why the hell should we stake the Leafs an advantage here? It's going to be hard enough to beat them as it is.

You skipped over the part where KK was rated relative to his team mates. But why would you look at that? It contradicted your intrepretation. It had KK in the middle or at the end of the pack.

 

[montreal]

Part of me wonders if Kotkaniemi will be exposed in the expansion draft.

zero chance.

Yeah I think he's finished here.

no way.

It boggles the mind that we waived a 22-year-old D, so that we could add Gustafsson.

Which also caused all kinds of cap problems.

Those were not management's intentions. They waived Mete believing he would go through without being picked up. It was a gamble. A bad gamble in my opinion.

The rumor is that MB thought he had a deal in place so he waived Mete, but the deal feel through. Don't know what the deal was and why not wait until the deal is done to waive him, but it's MB here. They waived DLR and then a week later Pleks, when all they had to do was waive Pleks first and it would have solved that at least for the time being.

 

[Whitesnake]

And that poster was right.

Relative to his teammates, KK drives the play in the opposing zone. Raw numbers his CF% is 55%. Those are strong numbers. He largely helps us on the ice. The puck is in the other team's zone most of the time.

Staal's numbers suck. Forget the raw numbers becaue he was stuck in Buffalo but relative to his teammates the puck is going to be in our zone most of the time. -2.6 is pretty bad. There's simply no way to justify him over KK.

As for the "eye test" I remember people talking about the intangibles of Douglas Murray. Meanwhile we got outchanced to the tune of like 8 to 1 while he was on the ice vs Boston in the playoffs before MT finally pulled his head out of his ass to sit him.

Why the hell should we stake the Leafs an advantage here? It's going to be hard enough to beat them as it is.

There's no way for sane people AND people who doesn't have their job attached to those decisions. But there's a way for an interim coach to hope to keep his job given by the GM who went and got those players for the moment that are the playoffs.

No Ducharme fan. At all. But it's insane to put the blame more on Ducharme right now...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You skipped over the part where KK was rated relative to his team mates. But why would you look at that? It contradicted your intrepretation. It had KK in the middle or at the end of the pack.

I didn't skip over anything. His relative numbers are good. Staal's are very bad.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There's no way for sane people AND people who doesn't have their job attached to those decisions. But there's a way for an interim coach to hope to keep his job given by the GM who went and got those players for the moment that are the playoffs.

No Ducharme fan. At all. But it's insane to put the blame more on Ducharme right now...

I have no idea if DD is being told to do this or not. Either way it's a dumb decision.

In my opinion this ALL falls on the GM. 'Cause who hired the coach to begin with?

 

[Habano]

19 games, 10 games, 15 games, 8 games. Next thing you know, we'll be choosing 12 periods from 11 different games lmfao. This is a joke. Everyone can find a sample size that suits their needs and supports their arguments. I can probably find a night when Byron got a point but Matthews didn't so obviously, that makes Byron better right??

The best one is 19 games because the game previous KK had 2 points

These arbitrary bullshit sample sizes are only used when people try to justify their outlandish arguments.

The only 2 sample sizes that count are the whole season or, since Staal has been here. In both cases KK has clearly been better and there can be no argument against that.

Stop cherry picking sample sizes guys, it's getting embarrassing.

 

[Roadhouse]

I go mainly by the eye test and KK stunk to high heaven. And as I said in the last couple of games Staal was more useful than KK.

I also think KK's been making shit decisions from an eye test PoV. In all three zones. HOWEVER, we know that offensively he's very capable of finding lanes and God forbid defenders actually let him shoot - it's a heavy one. He's been clowned on the defensive side of the puck way too often this year and I suspect it's gotten him some sit-downs with the coaching staff. As it should.

The crappy part is I don't think Staal's been more useful. Sure to make a heavy pick here and there without catching a penalty, but that's it. He's a full second behind most plays, whether he's expected to shoot or make a quick read/pass. It's hard to expect another gear from him, whereas we have reasons to believe a rested KK can do some damage in an exploitation role vs. Nash/Kerfoot or Thornton/Spezza.

 

[DAChampion]

He really likes comparing Danault to KK. I would personally hope that KK can do more offensively than Danault with a lesser environment as a 3rd overall pick, but I guess people have different expectations.

That argument is less clever than you think it is: Linemates and ice time count for a lot.

Notice Eller and Desharnais -- he didn't do better than him until after they left the Habs.

 

[Whitesnake]

I have no idea if DD is being told to do this or not. Either way it's a dumb decision.

In my opinion this ALL falls on the GM. 'Cause who hired the coach to begin with?

Not about being told. It's about acquiring those guys for that purpose. Bergevin did that for this purpose.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not about being told. It's about acquiring those guys for that purpose. Bergevin did that for this purpose.

End result is the same.

Any coach worth his salt would tell MB to pound sand.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I also think KK's been making shit decisions from an eye test PoV. In all three zones. HOWEVER, we know that offensively he's very capable of finding lanes and God forbid defenders actually let him shoot - it's a heavy one. He's been clowned on the defensive side of the puck way too often this year and I suspect it's gotten him some sit-downs with the coaching staff. As it should.

The crappy part is I don't think Staal's been more useful. Sure to make a heavy pick here and there without catching a penalty, but that's it. He's a full second behind most plays, whether he's expected to shoot or make a quick read/pass. It's hard to expect another gear from him, whereas we have reasons to believe a rested KK can do some damage in an exploitation role vs. Nash/Kerfoot or Thornton/Spezza.

if the decision making was better or the point production a bit better then he could have beat out Staal for the final spot. It was a low bar to get over.

the coach looks at the single goal in the 2nd half of the season, or 1 point in X games, and that potential isn’t so enticing relative to the experience factor.

When you have an inexperienced player who’s supposed to be an offensive player, and he isn’t producing, then a coach will usually opt for experience.

hopefully Dom has a short leash on Staal and KK gets in game 2 if they lose.

 

[DAChampion]

End result is the same.

Any coach worth his salt would tell MB to pound sand.

Ducharme doesn't have a lot of leverage.

Look what happened to Cunneyworth, who was well regarded prior to being Gauthier's bitch.

 

[Whitesnake]

End result is the same.

Any coach worth his salt would tell MB to pound sand.

But not really. Not as an interim. Not when you clearly expect that no matter who you put on the ice, you will lose.

Just put it in your sphere of work. You are in a 3-months probation. Your boss wants you to implement his ideas. And in a 3-month probation period you will say...no? Or you'll do what he wants, and when it doesn'T work out, you'll THEN give your own opinion?

 

[azcanuck]

He really likes comparing Danault to KK. I would personally hope that KK can do more offensively than Danault with a lesser environment as a 3rd overall pick, but I guess people have different expectations.

Danault made a career out of nothing. I give him full credit. He's got the body of a grade 9 student. He's got very little offensive acumen. But he worked his ass off to make a decent career. He's light years ahead of KK in the back two zones.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ducharme doesn't have a lot of leverage.

Look what happened to Cunneyworth, who was well regarded prior to being Gauthier's bitch.

I get that he doesn't have a lot of leverage. He's not dealing from a position of strength. But as I said, any coach worth his salt would make the right decision.

But not really. Not as an interim. Not when you clearly expect that no matter who you put on the ice, you will lose.

Just put it in your sphere of work. You are in a 3-months probation. Your boss wants you to implement his ideas. And in a 3-month probation period you will say...no? Or you'll do what he wants, and when it doesn'T work out, you'll THEN give your own opinion?

I get it.

But that's the whole point right? MB has a weak coach in there who's not strong enough to overrule him. So... get rid of them both.

Danault made a career out of nothing. I give him full credit. He's got the body of a grade 9 student. He's got very little offensive acumen. But he worked his ass off to make a decent career. He's light years ahead of KK in the back two zones.

Nonsensical to compare a twenty EIGHT year old player to a 20 year old.

 

[Runner77]

Apparently, after his third NHL season our 3rd OA pick is not good enough to crack the lineup. Our brass sure has reasons to feel proud of themselves.

So frustrating to see this org. repeating the same mistakes.

 

[Ozmodiar]

So frustrating to see this org. repeating the same mistakes.

Yep.
The mistake was 2.5 years ago when they decided to add him to the roster. We’re seeing the results now.