Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part VIII) - Pretty Mintniemi Edition

[BaseballCoach]

From a strictly statistical standpoint, there was no reason to sit KK. He had posted 1 goal and 4 assists in his last 7 games.

To your point about "evidence", there is none that is immediately available to the average fan. The Habs coaching staff is in a unique position to ascertain when a player is discernably fatigued and unless one believes that their role is to muddle and fabricate cover-ups in order to implement new decisions that may be less popular with the fan base, then we're not in a great position to be able to credibly claim otherwise.

FWIW, a good argument in favor of not sitting KK, came from Latendresse last evening on AC. He said that even he hit a wall as a rookie in the NHL however, Julien is pulling KK much too late in the season, at a time when there are only 15-16 games left in the season and the team is fighting for critical points in the standings.. At this point in the season, a coach shouldn't be going with trials and errors but instead, should have been able to establish his lines so as to create chemistry and momentum with said players.

Farmer Gilbert Delorme also admitted having "hit a wall" as a rookie in the league, so it's definitely a common thing.

Obviously, if you don't trust Julien about anything, there is no argument that will sway your opinion and that's your prerogative.

He can't help himself, the Clod. He needs his plugs. He asked for heavy help two years ago and it flopped. Now he has heavy help again, slow guys locked into the lineup while we take out skill to try a fourth liner.

He's just a bad coach.

 

[G0bias]

The physical and mental grind of a full NHL season was among the reasons why I initially advocated him playing another year in Liiga, so I can't say I'm too bothered by the idea of giving him some rest. I do find the timing of his alleged fatigue rather... convenient though - just so happens the team is in need of a wake up call.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

The panic over him sitting one game is hilarious.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Why would a 18 years old need more rest though, Im not sure about that one. Id think their ability to recover is much greater than 30+ yo.

Not really considering those 30 year olds have already done it multiple times, their bodies have already adjusted. This is really an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I'm SOOOO tired of fans who lap up anything ChuRien says.

On Monday, the lying POS was saying that KK's game had improved so much that he was now ready to center Jonathan Drouin. And the fefans lapped it up and repeated the talking point. Now, 24 hours later, he's hit a wall and again a contingent of fans go along. Let's sit out MORE games! We don't want the kid to get valuable experience playing these games, NOOOO. Suddenly the coaching staff chickens out.

Weirdest wall hit I ever saw. A ONE game scoring drought. A +5 in his last ten games or so.

You want to get Jordan Weal into the lineup? Sure no problem, you SHOULD. Put him on the fourth line where his speed will be a lifeline to Nate Thompson who is literally 30% slower than everyone else on the team. Nate's good on faceoffs and decent at PK. That's it. If the faceoff prowess is important, then at least give him Weal to back him up for those key draws and to provide some speed, because Lehkonen can't do much with Thompson and Weise. At least TRY Weal there.

We have had a good season by and large because we have three lines that can be a threat. With Byron and Armia, KK's line lately has been a major threat. Wall, my eye.

Julien is reverting to his pattern of slugs on the fourth line and over-reliance on vets. SOme here warned about that.

What's next in the "AHL guys spell tired youngsters" tale? Ouellett in for Mete?

I've changed my mind on the Weise and Thompson deals. They're turning into poison, not because of the price paid, cuz Schlemko was hot garbage and I don't care about the exact ranking of our 7th pick, but because we are now giving a guaranteed spot to TWO useless grinders, Weise and Thompson.

Weise = 7 games , zero goals, zero assists.
Thompson = 11 games, 1 measly assist on an ENG.

Weal might actually be an NHL player but to take the chicken way out and bench a rookie who was contributing so that the fourth line can contribute NOTHING is disgusting.

"We want to play fast" or "we want to dictate the play"
oops, we don't care about that anymore.

Clod ChuRien, gtfo.

Your dislike for Julien is clouding your judgment here IMO. I don't much care for him either, other than to say he's better than Therrien who was a complete steaming pile of horseshit.

I don't think there is anything to see here. Kid is banged up/tired and CJ is giving him a chance to recover. This has nothing to do with CJ thinking those other slugs increase our chances of winning. Yes hivingbthe kid a much deserved break before we enter the home stretch here. If he's getting scratched beyond this west coast swing, fine, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Archijerej]

Kotkaniemi's best strech of games was after the all-star break, when he came back rested.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Your dislike for Julien is clouding your judgment here IMO. I don't much care for him either, other than to say he's better than Therrien who was a complete steaming pile of horse****.

I don't think there is anything to see here. Kid is banged up/tired and CJ is giving him a chance to recover. This has nothing to do with CJ thinking those other slugs increase our chances of winning. Yes giving the kid a much deserved break before we enter the home stretch here. If he's getting scratched beyond this west coast swing, fine, but I don't see it happening.

The point is you are buying the banged up/tired line. It's bull crap. KK says he trusts the coach, but he is not tired. The stats of the past 10 games, even the past 3 games show he is not tired.

Monday, the line was that he was improved to the point of being ready to center one of the top two LW scorers. Tuesday they needed someone to come out to allow Jordan Weal a well-deserved chance and they take out the guy who is playing much less tired than Thompson and Weise.

Benn looked tired Saturday in the back to back, so did they put Reilly back in? No, because Benn is a veteran. Thompson had one of his worst games at the dot. Two games in two nights was a problem for quite a few guys, including Price. What to do?

Julien is under pressure to make the playoffs and his instincts are to go with slow vets and supposedly safe play instead of attacking with speed. He did this in 2017 and blew a winnable series against the Rangers and is reverting to form now. The problem is that slow vets do NOT actually improve your chances which means they are NOT the prudent choice. The fourth line is now providing LESS than before the trade deadline when it was decided they were not good enough. Solve the fourth line, don't mess with the top three.

 

[le_sean]

The physical and mental grind of a full NHL season was among the reasons why I initially advocated him playing another year in Liiga, so I can't say I'm too bothered by the idea of giving him some rest. I do find the timing of his alleged fatigue rather... convenient though - just so happens the team is in need of a wake up call.

I think it fits on a road trip. Forces him to hang out with the boys all day in beautiful California instead of sitting on his butt at home.

 

[angry pirate]

Why would a 18 years old need more rest though, Im not sure about that one. Id think their ability to recover is much greater than 30+ yo.

Not really considering those 30 year olds have already done it multiple times, their bodies have already adjusted. This is really an apples to oranges comparison.

I don't think it's so much injury recovery as much as the level of physical fitness. Generally speaking, 18 year olds don't have that base level of fitness that a prime aged player has and probably won't until he's 20 or 21.

 

[angry pirate]

FWIW, a good argument in favor of not sitting KK, came from Latendresse last evening on AC. He said that even he hit a wall as a rookie in the NHL however, Julien is pulling KK much too late in the season, at a time when there are only 15-16 games left in the season and the team is fighting for critical points in the standings.. At this point in the season, a coach shouldn't be going with trials and errors but instead, should have been able to establish his lines so as to create chemistry and momentum with said players.

That's a fair point. My biggest complaint on this isn't that game management shouldn't be a thing but that we should have had a plan for this from the beginning (and maybe we did). An 18 year old player probably shouldn't be expected to play an 82 game NHL season + playoffs + preseason + summer hockey + etc etc etc. NHL teams in general need to do a better job of this, not just with young players, but probably with all players.

If KK doesn't play in California, it'll be a 10 day break. That'll could be absolutely huge down the stretch and into the playoffs. This is probably the perfect time to give him a break really, where we only have 3 games in a 10 day span.

I wonder if this rest is a direct result of being in playoff contention. If we were in Ottawa's position, knowing when the season is ending, do we bother resting him?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Still don't understand why we'd sit him.

The only thing I can think of is that he's being punished for missing a curfew or being late for a meeting or something. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd have sat him for that game, esp when there were a few days off before and after that game. If he was going to be sat, why wouldn't they sit him in the upcoming back to back?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm calling him Kotcan from now on.

 

[Mrb1p]

Still don't understand why we'd sit him.

The only thing I can think of is that he's being punished for missing a curfew or being late for a meeting or something. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd have sat him for that game, esp when there were a few days off before and after that game. If he was going to be sat, why wouldn't they sit him in the upcoming back to back?

You dont need logic when youre Clod. Much rather go with AHL players than a former 3 OA pick. Shades of 2012.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

You dont need logic when youre Clod. Much rather go with AHL players than a former 3 OA pick. Shades of 2012.

How are you gonna react if he sits him tonight?

 

[overlords]

How are you gonna react if he sits him tonight?

mrb1p gonna lose his shit if his gf f***s up his beef n rice again

 

[Mrb1p]

How are you gonna react if he sits him tonight?

I dont know, Ill be mad at the team, like ive been for the past four years.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I dont know, Ill be mad at the team, like ive been for the past four years.

Don't you feel things were going too good with Kotka, and ish just HAD to go sour just cause well, we're the habs.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

I’m not watching another game until KK gets back into the lineup.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You dont need logic when youre Clod. Much rather go with AHL players than a former 3 OA pick. Shades of 2012.

Claude isn't Therrien. If it were Therrien, I'd just assume the idiocy.

My guess is that something happened behind the scenes. That's pure speculation on my part though.

 

[Schwang]

The kid has played a ridiculous amount of hockey. A lot more than what he played last year. I completely agree giving him a rest. He has looked tired or at least “off” over the past 20 days or so. As long as it’s not at the expense of winning, I’m fine with him resting a bit. He’s looked great on most nights,but honestly, it’s not like he’s lighting the world on fire yet. Yes, he’s having a great season for an 18 year old, but we’re not talking about a 20 goal 50 point guy here. He’s not there yet.

 

[Schwang]

You dont need logic when youre Clod. Much rather go with AHL players than a former 3 OA pick. Shades of 2012.

Um, Weal DID score and played great. And looked strong on face offs. It was want a bad move and it gave the kid some rest. There’s nothing suspicious about it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Um, Weal DID score and played great. And looked strong on face offs. It was want a bad move and it gave the kid some rest. There’s nothing suspicious about it.

I know, thats what were reduced to in MTL. We accept playing a guy that couldnt make the Coyotes or the Flyers over our prized jewel, over the chosen one.

 

[swimmer77]

He's just a kid in need of some down time.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Imo is that he will benched as long as we win with Weal. Coach wants a winning combo

 

[cphabs]

View attachment 196211

LOL! It’s true sometimes...