Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part VIII) - Pretty Mintniemi Edition

[Mrb1p]

9:29pm July 13th 2019

So hes going to bulk up but youll still deny him the 2C spot

 

[cphabs]

What a ridiculous question.......How does anyone answer that?

I know that Coconuts need a good source of water and sunlight to reach their maximum size or volume.

 

[Habby4Life]

So hes going to bulk up but youll still deny him the 2C spot

It’s simple - if he gets a little stronger, proves he can handle playing 2c on a regular basis and is productive he should play there. If he does not demonstrate this, he should play 3c while he continues to develop. That’s my opinion. Common sense I thought.

 

[Mrb1p]

It’s simple - if he gets a little stronger, proves he can handle playing 2c on a regular basis and is productive he should play there. If he does not demonstrate this, he should play 3c while he continues to develop. That’s my opinion. Common sense I thought.

Hell never prove he can play there.... unless he plays there.

Did Danault ever prove he was adequate for the top 6? Cause Ive never seen it, and hes 25 now.

 

[Mrb1p]

I really wonder why NY and Vancouver didnt wait to displace Brock Nelson and Jay Beagle to play Pettersson and Barzal. At first it was because they were 19 and not 18 and now were talking about bulking. Talking about Kotkaniemis development is like talking about QCs secularism bill, theres one side that looks stupid as hell.

 

[Habby4Life]

Hell never prove he can play there.... unless he plays there.

Did Danault ever prove he was adequate for the top 6? Cause Ive never seen it, and hes 25 now.

Seriously, That’s what my post says. IF he proves he can handle 2c on a regular basis and is productive he should play there. It’s pretty obvious that he needs to be a little stronger to compete at 2c and I am sure he is working on that any many other aspects of his game now and will continue in the off season. Obviously they would give him a chance to earn (play there) 2c and with some time they would know if he is ready or needs more development time on the third line.

I don’t think I can explain it any more simple then that. Not really a complicated concept.

 

[overlords]

I really wonder why NY and Vancouver didnt wait to displace Brock Nelson and Jay Beagle to play Pettersson and Barzal. At first it was because they were 19 and not 18 and now were talking about bulking. Talking about Kotkaniemis development is like talking about QCs secularism bill, theres one side that looks stupid as hell.

You watch too much disney.

 

[Mrb1p]

Seriously, That’s what my post says. IF he proves he can handle 2c on a regular basis and is productive he should play there. It’s pretty obvious that he needs to be a little stronger to compete at 2c and I am sure he is working on that any many other aspects of his game now and will continue in the off season. Obviously they would give him a chance to earn (play there) 2c and with some time they would know if he is ready or needs more development time on the third line.

I don’t think I can explain it any more simple then that. Not really a complicated concept.

My post says that Danault has never proven that he could play in the top 6

 

[Shutdown]

My post says that Danault has never proven that he could play in the top 6

Well, he's top 50 in points for centermen this season. If you want to argue he isn't an elite 2nd line center, go ahead, but he's a legit top 6 guy at this point.

 

[Habby4Life]

My post says that Danault has never proven that he could play in the top 6

Great and I had Cheerios for breakfast. I never mentioned Danualt but since you brought it up, he sure had/has very good year at 2. Although I think he is a great 3.

Your post said “he’ll never prove he can play there... unless he plays there”. I clearly explained my reasoning for kk’s development. Not hard to understand.

You asked me a silly question earlier and then followed it up with a silly statement that I was denying him 2c. Once again, he will demonstrate if he is ready for 2c role, if not more seasoning on the third line will help him move up.

I can’t make this any clearer.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well, he's top 50 in points for centermen this season. If you want to argue he isn't an elite 2nd line center, go ahead, but he's a legit top 6 guy at this point.

Barely top 6 for centers WHILE playing 18 minutes a night and playing with Tatar and Gallagher, yeah, no, he's not a top 6er, not anymore than Kotkaniemi.

 

[the paisanos guy]

Barely top 6 for centers WHILE playing 18 minutes a night and playing with Tatar and Gallagher, yeah, no, he's not a top 6er, not anymore than Kotkaniemi.

Dude you need to take a break, you're not seeing things clearly. Top 50 in points for position, playing 18 minutes a night is basically the textbook definition of a 2nd line center.

I love Kotkaniemi, but it's clear the kid is getting worn out in the home stretch of the season. It's okay though, he will be great. I know the wound from Galchenyuk is pretty fresh, but this is not the same situation. Claude has trusted and played KK at the C position for the great majority of the season, and he will continue to do so next season. You can't just ignore that, focus on 1 or 2 must-win games where he didn't, and claim it's Therrien/Galchenyuk all over again.

 

[Mrb1p]

Dude you need to take a break, you're not seeing things clearly. Top 50 in points for position, playing 18 minutes a night is basically the textbook definition of a 2nd line center.

I love Kotkaniemi, but it's clear the kid is getting worn out in the home stretch of the season. It's okay though, he will be great. I know the wound from Galchenyuk is pretty fresh, but this is not the same situation. Claude has trusted and played KK at the C position for the great majority of the season, and he will continue to do so next season. You can't just ignore that, focus on 1 or 2 must-win games where he didn't, and claim it's Therrien/Galchenyuk all over again.

47th for points
95th for goals
57th for ice-time
80th for shots taken
44th for hits
47th for ES ice-time
61th overall for p/60

Quite the top 6 C, yeah. QOT is probably top ten, too.

 

[Redux91]

47th for points
95th for goals
57th for ice-time
80th for shots taken
44th for hits
47th for ES ice-time
61th overall for p/60

Quite the top 6 C, yeah. QOT is probably top ten, too.

But Top 6 means Top 62 not top 31
I mean.. thats not too bad, considering all the other variables missing he would rank even higher in

 

[the paisanos guy]

47th for points
95th for goals
57th for ice-time
80th for shots taken
44th for hits
47th for ES ice-time
61th overall for p/60

Quite the top 6 C, yeah. QOT is probably top ten, too.

29th for even-strength points
5th for SH TOI
23rd in Faceoff Win% (/w players that have over 50 games played)
29th in Blocked Shots/game

Interesting that these didn't make your list. And this was just with 2 minutes of looking.

 

[Mrb1p]

29th for even-strength points
5th for SH TOI
23rd in Faceoff Win% (/w players that have over 50 games played)
29th in Blocked Shots/game

Interesting that these didn't make your list. And this was just with 2 minutes of looking.

Those are 4th liner statistics. Nobody cares. McDavid doesn't need to win faceoffs to be the best player on the planet, its overrated. Blocking shots means you don't have the puck.

ES scoring is jacked up by QoT and ice-time, his p/60 is 61th overall, add in that he plays with a top 10 RW and Tatar, and the value tanks really low.

 

[Shutdown]

47th for points
95th for goals
57th for ice-time
80th for shots taken
44th for hits
47th for ES ice-time
61th overall for p/60

Quite the top 6 C, yeah. QOT is probably top ten, too.

How many top 6 forwards do you think there are in the league?

 

[azcanuck]

29th for even-strength points
5th for SH TOI
23rd in Faceoff Win% (/w players that have over 50 games played)
29th in Blocked Shots/game

Interesting that these didn't make your list. And this was just with 2 minutes of looking.

How come there's no like button on my account?
Good post.
The scare bears are out in full force .

 

[Mrb1p]

How many top 6 forwards do you think there are in the league?

One would say 6 per team, so 6*31, but just two years ago there was only 6*30 top 6 spots, and in a year there will be 6*32. To me, there's the top 6 players (Stops at around where Tatar is) and then there's the good enough to be top 6, provided the players can carry him to respectable numbers. Danault would fall in the bottom of that group, as he's showing, he's around Shaw, Drouin level.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So hes going to bulk up but youll still deny him the 2C spot

He needs to earn the spot weather he bulks up or not. Why are you so quick to give opportunity to players who don't earn it? Let me guess, you are focused on point totals only?

You are a bit too early with the Danault vs Kotkaniemi swap. Remember, we are fighting for the playoffs and we are not a rebuilding team. If we were in full rebuilding mode, you might have a point, but we are not in a full rebuild

 

[the paisanos guy]

Those are 4th liner statistics. Nobody cares. McDavid doesn't need to win faceoffs to be the best player on the planet, its overrated. Blocking shots means you don't have the puck.

ES scoring is jacked up by QoT and ice-time, his p/60 is 61th overall, add in that he plays with a top 10 RW and Tatar, and the value tanks really low.

He's 29th in even-strength points despite being 47th in even strength ice-time. That should tell you all you need to know. You trying to handwave that achievement away because he gets ice time with Gallagher and Tatar, who are by no means superstars, is hilarious. And P/60 is not a good tool to use in his case because he gets a disproportionate amount of PK time vs. PP time.

Anyways have fun continuing to hate on him for some bizarre reason.

 

[Mrb1p]

He needs to earn the spot weather he bulks up or not. Why are you so quick to give opportunity to players who don't earn it? Let me guess, you are focused on point totals only?

You are a bit too early with the Danault vs Kotkaniemi swap. Remember, we are fighting for the playoffs and we are not a rebuilding team. If we were in full rebuilding mode, you might have a point, but we are not in a full rebuild

I want to develop him, no better way to develop a skill player using him, as *drumroll* a skill player.

The conversation was about next year, too.

 

[ZUKI]

He's 29th in even-strength points despite being 47th in even strength ice-time. That should tell you all you need to know. You trying to handwave that achievement away because he gets ice time with Gallagher and Tatar, who are by no means superstars, is hilarious. And P/60 is not a good tool to use in his case because he gets a disproportionate amount of PK time vs. PP time.

Anyways have fun continuing to hate on him for some bizarre reason.

You can bring all the stats , all the good things Danault do, but will never be able to change his one track mind ; when Danault do good things "it's because he plays with Tatar and Gallagher , so he gets no merits". If the line plays bad it's all on Danault .
(mod)

 

[Guns n Roses]

Well, he's top 50 in points for centermen this season. If you want to argue he isn't an elite 2nd line center, go ahead, but he's a legit top 6 guy at this point.

Stop it. Any team with Danault as their 2C is in trouble. He’s a very very good 3C, that’s it that’s all.

 

[Mrb1p]

You can bring all the stats , all the good things Danault do, but will never be able to change his one track mind ; when Danault do good things "it's because he plays with Tatar and Gallagher , so he gets no merits". If the line plays bad it's all on Danault

Danault will never be a top 6 player, thats the main reason why i don't want him playing on the first line, but it may be hard to grasp. Nobody has ever said Danault was bad, Danault is good, he's a good player. But him playing over better players is not fine. Domi/Kotkaniemi should get the ice-time. You can't make a potato into a beautiful flower, you need a flower for that.