Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part VII) - Pretty Mint Edition

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crosbyshow

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Galchenyuk was almost 19 in January 2013 at the start of the short season: - 18 - 11 months: He is born on Feb 1994

KK started the season at 18 and 2 months.......it is a huge difference at that age.

And even then...KK is a lot more impressive with his IQ, anticipation, Backcheck and his play in all 3 zones

Bergeron-Kopitar-Toews.....you can choose
 
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Frank Drebin

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Hands and shot. We clearly saw these deficiencies at the WJC.
I see shot and of course general strength. I was just wondering what Habs icing saw in him that couldn't be improved as he physically matured and gained experience.

He's smart, has good hockey sense and vision, I think his shot at this point is underrated. He's starting to show more poise and patience as the season goes on, I see a real player in him.

The points will come with maturity, linemates and usage, although I have a hard time picturing him as anything other than a bambi looking kid.
 

NotProkofievian

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I see shot and of course general strength. I was just wondering what Habs icing saw in him that couldn't be improved as he physically matured and gained experience.

He's smart, has good hockey sense and vision, I think his shot at this point is underrated. He's starting to show more poise and patience as the season goes on, I see a real player in him.

The points will come with maturity, linemates and usage, although I have a hard time picturing him as anything other than a bambi looking kid.

I was mostly f***ing with you. The points are sorta already coming. If he finishes the year with this pace or better the only way to look at it is as a roaring success.
 
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yianik

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I dont think Bowman was saying Kotkaniemi wont be playing at 1C until he is 22 , just that he wont be playing/ producing like a 1C until he is 22 , which is reasonable.
 

Habs Icing

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What do you think he is lacking?

Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
 

Engelwood

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Galchenyuk was dynamite with the puck but he was playing as winger unlike Kotkaniemi as a center. It' hard to compare 1vs1. That being said when you watched Galchenyuk at first glance you would be more impressed by his offensive skillset more so than Kotkaniemi. You could see him try deke, unleash powerful shots and make crisp accurate passes. Kotkaniemi is a different animal, he looks like a 15 years old nhl vet. So much maturity in his game no flashy dekes (although he often show glimpses of his hands), very few turnover or selfish play. Always back checking hard and supporting defensively. He also showed more vision/playmaking than with Chucky. In term of their physicality both were overwhelmed in the NHL, Kotkaniemi looks more willing to take hit but he also seem to lose his balance more than Galchenyuk did.

Overall Kotkaniemi is a bit more impressive because he did it as a center and he seems more mature and composed than Chucky was.

Want to know another more current player that the fan base complained he was too skinny, got pushed around but showed talent and had an off the charts hockey IQ but would never be the first line center on the team was........Mark Scheifele. Now look at him his is filled out, and can be out right dominant.
 
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417

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Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
You see him fan on 90-95% of his pass attempts?

Really?

Are you really tracking these? Or just throwing a randomly high number out there?

If the guy was fanning on 95% of his pass attempts...he'd be in Laval or Finland right now, no coach would ever live with that rate of liability.
 

Mrb1p

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Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
He wont burn anyone in this league! Except when he did last week, that was an exception.
 

crosbyshow

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Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.


Agree with a lot of things but he well be a number one center.......A Bergeron, Kopitar, Barkov, Toews type of player and they are all number one center.

Also Mtl will be very hard to play against soon when they will have 3 good center in all 3 zones: KK, Poeling, Danault (Domi on the wing)
 

417

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Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
An already refined hockey sense...

One that will just naturally get better with more experience and added physical maturity.

And to me, hockey sense will always be the most important attribute a player can have.

I have zero doubts he's gonna be a #1C
 
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Habs Icing

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You remind me of the people who were saying Pacioretty would be no more than a 3rd line player, when we were only in his rookie season.

I rarely make bold statements about prospects and young players. KK will be a 1st line center.
I never said Patches would be more than a 3rd liner but I did say from way back that I didn't like him as a hockey player and I would never keep a player like him on my team. You don't win squat with players like Pacioretty on your team.

I was asked what KK was lacking to be a #1center. So I'll ask you what skills do you see that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
 

Mrb1p

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Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.

Ill add, hes elite defensively, you even admit that, he has elite vision, his one timer is elite and will only get better with timing and his shot/hand combo is elite too, even though you choose to turn a blind eye to every thing that suggest he is.

Jesperi is kind of the center version of Mark Stone, but with better skating and a better shot.

What does Mark Stone have that makes him a PPG player exactly?
What about Weber? Why was he elite?
What makes Kopitar elite?
Barkov?
Scheifele?
Barzal?

Ill tell you whats up, Kotkaniemi isnt a flashy skater or even a flashy player, and you're a bad talent evaluator, thats where the 2C story stops.
 
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crosbyshow

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I never said Patches would be more than a 3rd liner but I did say from way back that I didn't like him as a hockey player and I would never keep a player like him on my team. You don't win squat with players like Pacioretty on your team.

I was asked what KK was lacking to be a #1center. So I'll ask you what skills do you see that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.


Easy, His IQ, his vision, his anticipation.

Most important things in hockey...more than the speed and weight.

Ribeiro had no speed , no shot, no frame but a great IQ and vision....and KK is a lot more complete than Mike
 

Mrb1p

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I never said Patches would be more than a 3rd liner but I did say from way back that I didn't like him as a hockey player and I would never keep a player like him on my team. You don't win squat with players like Pacioretty on your team.

I was asked what KK was lacking to be a #1center. So I'll ask you what skills do you see that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
You said that? Do you have selective memory? Because Pacioretty was a wrecking ball back then, he was a power forward in the proper sense of the word. The injuries changed him around 2014.
 
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NotProkofievian

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Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.

I'll answer the same way that I answered before we drafted him: his hockey IQ, vision, and playmaking. The fact that he plays such a competent 200 foot game right out of the gate attests to his understanding of the game. Some of the most ridiculous passes we've seen a hab make this year have been authored by Jesperi Kotkaniemi.

But lastly, there's another thing that sticks out about him to me, and it's not a skill: it's his will. If you look at his last goal, you can criticize Matheson for his garbage defensive play all you like, most players won't even try to do what he did. That's just an example of what Jesperi is trying to do on the ice. It gives an idea of what Jesperi thinks he's capable of on any given shift. Most players don't have that. Instead of noticing that he flubs his passes, notice what he's trying to do.

Most of the criticisms that you've mentioned here are actually far from unfounded. I've heard them before. Based on these shared concerns one guy actually bet me his account that Jesperi would be outscored in Liiga by Jarno Kärki this year. He's not around anymore.

He looks weird on the ice, and yet he's effective. The only conclusion to draw from this, IMO, is that he has a gift.
 

Frank Drebin

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Let me start by what I think is his strongest skill. His defensive game. I give him full marks on his reading of the play and his positioning. It's exceptional. He also has shown a lot of grit and moxy. Doesn't back down to anyone. Another strength is that he appears to be very consistent. I can remember one game were he made an errant move that led to a goal. He didn't let it get to him. Came back and played to his level for the rest
of the game.

Now, for his other skills. His skating is average. He isn't going to burn anyone but he will not be left behind either. That's without the puck on his stick. Once he has the puck he slows down like a lot of players. He falls down a lot and I don't mean when he is being checked but when he has to pivot, or stop and change direction. That might improve. Then again it might not. His vision is very good but it's being held back by what I would call his stick work. I'd say 90-95% of his pass attempts he either fans or they're blocked by opponents. Same can be said about his shots. He either fans, has the shot poked off his stick as he is about to shoot or misses his mark. It's either a slow stick or bad balance on his skates. Although in his 40 odd games he has flashed a couple of stickhandling plays, I don't think dangling will be one of his strengths.

Right now he's only 18 and his body will fill out so he could become physically imposing but then again he might not. We would have to see how that part of his game develops.

When I look at the total package I don't see a #1 center. I see a very good #2 which is nothing to sneeze at.

Most number 1s have two or three exceptional skills, let me ask you what skills do you see in the kid that are exceptional enough to make him a #1.
I see great vision and hockey sense. What makes Joe Thornton, Ryan Getzlaf or anze kopitar great? None are absurdly good at any one thing, are they?

How about the great one? What made him great?
 
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417

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I'll answer the same way that I answered before we drafted him: his hockey IQ, vision, and playmaking. The fact that he plays such a competent 200 foot game right out of the gate attests to his understanding of the game. Some of the most ridiculous passes we've seen a hab make this year have been authored by Jesperi Kotkaniemi.
Because 3/4's of them didn't end up in converted goals - it's like they never happened.

But they did...

But lastly, there's another thing that sticks out about him to me, and it's not a skill: it's his will. If you look at his last goal, you can criticize Matheson for his garbage defensive play all you like, most players won't even try to do what he did. That's just an example of what Jesperi is trying to do on the ice. It gives an idea of what Jesperi thinks he's capable of on any given shift. Most players don't have that. Instead of noticing that he flubs his passes, notice what he's trying to do.

Most of the criticisms that you've mentioned here are actually far from unfounded. I've heard them before. Based on these shared concerns one guy actually bet me his account that Jesperi would be outscored in Liiga by Jarno Kärki this year. He's not around anymore.

He looks weird on the ice, and yet he's effective. The only conclusion to draw from this, IMO, is that he has a gift.
While some of what he highlighted was factual (though some of it also exaggerated).

I think we've crossed a point of no return when we're breaking down weaknesses in an 18yr old player who is doing more than holding his own in the NHL.

Yes he's not perfect - he's 18, he's not supposed to be.

Enjoy the good and at least for this year, forget some of the bad.
 

Belial

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I don't want to start any arguments with anyone on here but we're through 48 games which was the length of the lockout season. What we're the impressions of Galchenyuk through 48 games(the full season) compared to Kotkaniemi? I'm just genuinely curious because I don't quite remember what people were thinking at the time.

Eagle is freaking Bergeron out there compared to Chucky at the same age or even right now...

Just watch him chasing the puck with his enormous stick when he has no puck possession!
 

backwards motion

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How do you real Montreal fans feel if I join in your bandwagon? I really don't have a number one team. I love my Fins but not a fanatic for on team. Recently Kotkaniemi has been great, and even everyone sold him short, Niemi is quite a back up. And you have Lehkonen (I'm Finn). Anyways, I really hope you make the playoffs. I don't have just one team I like, but since Saku Koivu playd with the stroughles. I kinda love this new situation.. Cheers. Hope you're doing well everybody. :)

And Armia. he's battle beats. May no goal that often, but sure has proven to be a very good defends grinder, don't you thing?
 
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