Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part IV

[417]

I think people are a little bit obsessed with "letting him dominate". I understand the rationale, but it is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition in maximizing his development. Let him go to WJC and play a big role like Mete did last year, sure, but I think he can develop fine in the NHL the way he is currently playing and being deployed.

It's pretty much just become a cliché at this point.

 

[417]

He should be all our concern. This organizations future is entirely based on his shoulders. He NEEDS to be an elite 1C.

This is how expectations become unrealistic.

 

[Fixxer]

I guarantee you guys Kotka wants to play with Armia

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-kotkaniemi-looking-forward-playing-idol-armia/

"Idol" Armia was playing with men in Finland. Sure he's not the most talented offensive player, but great 2-way, great move on the Byron goal. Kotkaniemi backpass when near the board was a nice play too.

These players gel good together, while the other lines work good the way they are. Drouin-Domi-Lehkonen Gallagher-Danault-Tatar Deslauriers/Peca/Shaw.
Anyway, great kid. I think he struggles with the pace of the game, BUT he has his times where he shines. Still a good top 9 on every game. Tough call for Bergevin.

 

[montreal]

It's pretty much just become a cliché at this point.

it's not a cliche at all, i bet if you asked most NHLers they would agree that hockey is at least 80% mental or somewhere around that level.

 

[417]

it's not a cliche at all, i bet if you asked most NHLers they would agree that hockey is at least 80% mental or somewhere around that level.

It's become cliché in the sense that dominating inferior competition, has suddenly trumped a player playing well and producing in the NHL.

A 35pt rookie season in the NHL for Kotkaniemi (mixed in with numerous ups and downs) > a PPG season in the SM Liiga.

 

[yianik]

When you are at this level of course a big part is mental.

I liked AK46 and thought he was a good 2nd line winger. He wasnt a 1st line winger because he was inconsistent. Why ? Mental. He had everything to be a 1st liner but he didnt bring it every night.

Our own Mike Reilly talked about, ironically, not being afraid of getting stapled to the bench here for small mistakes like in Minny, so he has been confident to play his game. Mental.

Having the confidence of the coach is really important as you then dont play with fear. That's part of the mental game. So is having general confidence in your game. If you can put up points in a lower league you have some confidence you can do it when you take the next step.

 

[417]

When you are at this level of course a big part is mental.

I liked AK46 and thought he was a good 2nd line winger. He wasnt a 1st line winger because he was inconsistent. Why ? Mental. He had everything to be a 1st liner but he didnt bring it every night.

Our own Mike Reilly talked about, ironically, not being afraid of getting stapled to the bench here for small mistakes like in Minny, so he has been confident to play his game. Mental.

Having the confidence of the coach is really important as you then dont play with fear. That's part of the mental game. So is having general confidence in your game. If you can put up points in a lower league you have some confidence you can do it when you take the next step.

Kotkaniemi has the confidence of the coach and he's got confidence in himself.

He's not just holding his head above water...

He's learning and getting better every game.

This constant talk about sending him back to dominate, imo, has everything to do with points and production.

Because for some reason, it seems that prospects only develop, when they're producing points.

I'd argue Kotkaniemi has progressed and developed more in the NHL today, then he would have, had he been in Finland at this point.

 

[Mrb1p]

This is how expectations become unrealistic.

But this is exactly what we need of him. We need him to be a 1C, we need him to be elite, thats why we drafted him. Did we draft Price to be a journeyman goaltender ? No. Drafted him to be the best in the league, the same applies to Kotkaniemi, and the tools are there.

 

[417]

But this is exactly what we need of him. We need him to be a 1C, we need him to be elite, thats why we drafted him. Did we draft Price to be a journeyman goaltender ? No. Drafted him to be the best in the league, the same applies to Kotkaniemi, and the tools are there.

He's 18yrs old and you're already claiming that he's responsible for the entire organization's future.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself and the odds that Kotkaniemi himself, all alone, is going to carry this organization, are extremely low.

He's not Sidney Crosby, even he needed Malkin, Letang.

He's not Connor McDavid...he's the best player in the game and that's not enough for Edmonton.

We love to make heroes and then turn them into zeroes when they don't meet our unrealistic expectations.

 

[Andrei79]

While he hasn't been bad, he hasn't been playing his game. I understand that he is the youngest player in the league and has to get his feet wet, but I just think the AHL makes a lot more sense. You can always call him up at the deadline when you trade some players.

That's one of the parts that's lost on some people who didn't watch him leading up to the draft.

He's not playing his game. He's pressuring well and showing offensive IQ, but he's often passive and basically never open for a pass.

 

[417]

That's one of the parts that's lost on some people who didn't watch him leading up to the draft.

He's not playing his game. He's pressuring well and showing offensive IQ, but he's often passive and basically never open for a pass.

The NHL is not the SM Liiga...of course he's not going to repeat with the same level of success, the things he did in that league.

 

[Runner77]

He should be all our concern. This organizations future is entirely based on his shoulders. He NEEDS to be an elite 1C.

I might have agreed with you in prior years. I like the way they're handling him right now. Ducharme is probably involved. I don't know what else they're supposed to do about his future. His future is now and they've determined that he's NHL-ready. He's not the first top 3 overall draft pick to be deemed NHL-ready. I usually don't trust management but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. It's not a Therrien/Galchenyuk dynamic. Enjoy.

 

[Andrei79]

The NHL is not the SM Liiga...of course he's not going to repeat with the same level of success, the things he did in that league.

He was a bit like that in Liiga as well last year. I'm talking about his game vs his age group. Hence why I wanted the next step to be translating his game in the pros, which he was doing in Liiga pre-season.

In any case, I'm talking about his usual pace and tempo. He's still surviving out there.

 

[The Great Weal]

That's one of the parts that's lost on some people who didn't watch him leading up to the draft.

He's not playing his game. He's pressuring well and showing offensive IQ, but he's often passive and basically never open for a pass.

I hate it when young players have to change their game just to keep up with the NHL. They need to build on their game to adapt to the NHL, not change it. Mete is a perfect example. I saw a lot more offensive abilities in junior. With his skating and skills, there is no way he should not be producing at least mediocre numbers. His sound defensive game is what has kept him in the NHL.

 

[Andrei79]

I hate it when young players have to change their game just to keep up with the NHL. They need to build on their game to adapt to the NHL, not change it. Mete is a perfect example. I saw a lot more offensive abilities in junior. With his skating and skills, there is no way he should not be producing at least mediocre numbers. His sound defensive game is what has kept him in the NHL.

Agreed. This is why I wanted more time for Mete before he jumped to the NHL.

 

[417]

He was a bit like that in Liiga as well last year. I'm talking about his game vs his age group. Hence why I wanted the next step to be translating his game in the pros, which he was doing in Liiga pre-season.

In any case, I'm talking about his usual pace and tempo. He's still surviving out there.

I think he's doing more than just surviving.

My eye test says so, advanced stats also support that.

Is he perfect? No

Are there things he needs of work on?
Yep

Does he have the attitude and ability to do so?

IMO, without question.

 

[Forum93]

He's 18yrs old and you're already claiming that he's responsible for the entire organization's future.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself and the odds that Kotkaniemi himself, all alone, is going to carry this organization, are extremely low.

He's not Sidney Crosby, even he needed Malkin, Letang.

He's not Connor McDavid...he's the best player in the game and that's not enough for Edmonton.

We love to make heroes and then turn them into zeroes when they don't meet our unrealistic expectations.

As long as he's playing well I'll call him KoKo, when his game turns to crap it'll be KaKa, fair enough?

 

[417]

I hate it when young players have to change their game just to keep up with the NHL. They need to build on their game to adapt to the NHL, not change it. Mete is a perfect example. I saw a lot more offensive abilities in junior. With his skating and skills, there is no way he should not be producing at least mediocre numbers. His sound defensive game is what has kept him in the NHL.

I think people are going to be disappointed if they think Mete is going to be a big point producer in the NHL.

Even his CHL stats aren't exactly eye popping.

His skating makes you think that he projects as an offensive Dman, but I dont really see it.

I see him as a Jared Spurgeon type of Dman.

While it seems many see him as a Torey Krug type.

 

[Runner77]

He's going to be nit-picked, he's by far our best hope of ever getting out of this **** MB has put us in. Not everyone is going to agree what's best for him cause it's impossible to really know, my point is more why risk it when we have been burned so many times doing exactly what they are doing. All the things posters are saying now about how it's fine, he's fine, everything is fine with how they are developing him but all this was said with Galchenyuk as well as others too. I got so much heat early on for questioning Beaulieu's development or Tinordi's or how bad a job Lefebvre was doing. People said everything is fine etc... now of course they don't and say it's because Beaulieu/Tindori suck, Galchenyuk isn't that good, etc.. but at the time they weren't saying that (meaning most around here)

No harm in questioning an organization that has shown it struggles to develop talent over the last 6 years and being concerned that our best hope could be handled if not better in a less risky way cause no matter what we can not screw up this pick cause we may not get another shot at a top 3 due to the new lotto rules.

Sure, not everyone will agree but a clear majority of posters here are not at all concerned about the decision management has made to keep the player at the NHL level beyond 9 games.

Question the organization all you want, that's your prerogative and at several junctures, have done so myself and am continuing to do so whenever something looks to be off-kilter to me. And no, I haven't forgiven MB for his first 6 years, however, I'm not going to go on some conspiracy theory that involves past players that have ZERO to do with how Julien and his assistants are handling the player now. This "risk" thing is pure exaggeration, he played with men last year, he proved that he can play in that kind of environment. He's not made of porcelain, he'll adapt. I like the way Julien and his assistants have been deploying him so far and he's been getting his minutes, in a controlled manner.

Not all 18 year olds can handle it, but this 18-year old appears to be adapting and his high hockey IQ will make up for whatever he lacks in NHL experience. Not everything has to be doom and gloom with this organization.

 

[The Great Weal]

I think people are going to be disappointed if they think Mete is going to be a big point producer in the NHL.

Even his CHL stats aren't exactly eye popping.

His skating makes you think that he projects as an offensive Dman, but I dont really see it.

I see him as a Jared Spurgeon type of Dman.

While it seems many see him as a Torey Krug type.

Mete has 7 points in 54 games. That's an 11 point pace in an 82 game season. Karl Alzner had 12 point in 82 games last year, and he is about the furthest thing from an offensive dman that I can think of. CHL stats are nice, but they don't tell the whole story. Lajoie had similar stats to Mete, yet he has already matched Mete's career point total despite playing only 7 games. Spurgeon on average produces 33 points in a season. Obviously Mete is still young, but he has to make SIGNIFICANT changes in his game if he wants to hit 33 points a season.

 

[417]

Sure, not everyone will agree but a clear majority of posters here are not at all concerned about the decision management has made to keep the player at the NHL level beyond 9 games.

Question the organization all you want, that's your prerogative and at several junctures, have done so myself and am continuing to do so whenever something looks to be off-kilter to me. And no, I haven't forgiven MB for his first 6 years, however, I'm not going to go on some conspiracy theory that involves past players that have ZERO to do with how Julien and his assistants are handling the player now. This "risk" thing is pure exaggeration, he played with men last year, he proved that he can play in that kind of environment. He's not made of porcelain, he'll adapt. I like the way Julien and his assistants have been deploying him so far and he's been getting his minutes, in a controlled manner.

Not all 18 year olds can handle it, but this 18-year old appears to be adapting and his high hockey IQ will make up for whatever he lacks in NHL experience. Not everything has to be doom and gloom with this organization.

I'm just confused at times with our fanbase.

Development or lack there of, has been a big talking point here over the years.

We have a bright prospect developing right before our eyes but it seems like we don't want that now?

What gives?

 

[417]

Mete has 7 points in 54 games. That's an 11 point pace in an 82 game season. Karl Alzner had 12 point in 82 games last year, and he is about the furthest thing from an offensive dman that I can think of.

Victor Mete is 20yrs old...

CHL stats are nice, but they don't tell the whole story. Lajoie had similar stats to Mete, yet he has already matched Mete's career point total despite playing only 7 games. Spurgeon on average produces 33 points in a season. Obviously Mete is still young, but he has to make SIGNIFICANT changes in his game if he wants to hit 33 points a season.

Lajoie is on a hot streak...unless you actually think he's going to out up a PPG season.

Also, Lajoie put up 1 goal and 15pts in 56 AHL games last year.

He didn't dominate the AHL like many here seem to think is a pre-requisite to being a successful NHL player.

That hasn't prevented him from producing this season.

But come on, he's going to come back down to earth at some point.

Mete doesnt have to make significant changes to his game, he just needs to continue gaining experience, the points will eventually follow because hes got good hockey sense and he's a modern day NHL dman.

I mean, he's not going to suddenly develop a howitzer like Weber or grow 6 inches. He'll eventually find his comfort zone.

 

[Runner77]

I'm just confused at times with our fanbase.

Development or lack there of, has been a big talking point here over the years.

We have a bright prospect developing right before our eyes but it seems like we don't want that now?

What gives?

I think some posters feel scorched by how the org. has handled past prospects and are projecting the same thing now, fearing that the same thing will happen all over again, probably on account of MB still being at the helm.

Also, just because this 18 year old is so exceptional, doesn't mean the same recipe will be applied to those who come after him.

It seems to me that this particular 18 year old is adapting and progressing and he's being deployed smartly and with a reasonable baseline amount of TOI. He has mostly looked like he belongs. And the org. has all but officially announced that he's staying. I don't have an issue at all with the current situation continuing, it looks like it's working. No need to fix what's not broken.

 

[The Great Weal]

Victor Mete is 20yrs old...


Lajoie is on a hot streak...unless you actually think he's going to out up a PPG season.

Also, Lajoie put up 1 goal and 15pts in 56 AHL games last year.

He didn't dominate the AHL like many here seem to think is a pre-requisite to being a successful NHL player.

That hasn't prevented him from producing this season.

But come on, he's going to come back down to earth at some point.

Who cares if it's a hot streak? At least he has had one. Mete hasn't shown anything offensively in 54 games. Lajoie has to go 47 games without a point to match Metes stats and he would still have 4 more goals. Mete played last year because he and Petry were the only dmen who could skate well. Lajoie sucked in the AHL last year, and I would have wanted him sent down after preseason as well. However, even if it is early and only a hot streak, he has shown FAR more than what Mete has ever shown in the NHL. If Mete produced something decent, then of course I wouldn't want to send him down. I was told how he looked so much better than last year based on his preseason, but he looks the exact same so far.

 

[417]

Who cares if it's a hot streak? At least he has had one. Mete hasn't shown anything offensively in 54 games. Lajoie has to go 47 games without a point to match Metes stats and he would still have 4 more goals. Mete played last year because he and Petry were the only dmen who could skate well. Lajoie sucked in the AHL last year, and I would have wanted him sent down after preseason as well. However, even if it is early and only a hot streak, he has shown FAR more than what Mete has ever shown in the NHL. If Mete produced something decent, then of course I wouldn't want to send him down. I was told how he looked so much better than last year based on his preseason, but he looks the exact same so far.

Man its crazy how points = everything here.

Unless your putting up points, you're not developing.

Sens are a mirage, even more than the Habs at this point.

I'm not excluding Lajoie from this phenomenon either (good player but come on man).

I'm going to stop talking Mete in this thread..

But if points are how you're going to define Victor Mete...then I'm afraid you're never going to be a fan of this player.