Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 18

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

He needs to stop worrying about the skating. He can be fine with the way it is now. The more pressing need is to just stay on his damn feet. Add muscle, play a big boy game and stop getting knocked on your butt everytime someone breathes on you.

blaming KK skating is kinda stupid when you have Perry 10x slower but still can use his brain to make amazing plays.


You are right

 

[Garbageyuk]

The lashing out and tantrums in the other thread because some of us don't see KK as a 1C are hilarious. He just isn't showing it. A solid 3C/2C is what we have here. It's like people think just because he was drafted 3OA, it's going to magically morph his entire being into a player with elite C potential. Lol.

 

[angusyoung]

blaming KK skating is kinda stupid when you have Perry 10x slower but still can use his brain to make amazing plays.


You are right

Perry is 10 time slower eh? ya thinks ya might be exaggerating some

The difference is talent,plain and simple

 

[angusyoung]

Not sure about that. It's what I hear all sports scientists saying about every sport. For example, in boxing some boxers have power because of fast twitch muscle.

 

[Miller Time]

He needs to stop worrying about the skating. He can be fine with the way it is now. The more pressing need is to just stay on his damn feet. Add muscle, play a big boy game and stop getting knocked on your butt everytime someone breathes on you.

ever stop to consider that a big part of the reason he does end up knocked over a lot is precisely because of his willingness to play a "big boy game"? He doesn't need to. He has the skill and vision to avoid or minimize contact the way suzuki or caufied do, but he recognizes that with his frame he can put pressure on opponents physically...

and...

he's 20 and has a lanky frame. He needs to, and will, add muscle and better coordination as he fully matures physically. With his work ethic, there's no doubt of that. So, instead of nitpicking because he doesn't have the muscle/strength yet to fight through all of the contact he initiates (and attracts) without getting knocked on his arse a bit... another way to look at it would be to be thrilled that he's got the understanding of how he can bring that element to the table and the competitiveness and willingness to take his licks without backing down.

net positive, rather than negative.

(and if you watch the Vegas/Avs series tonight, take a look at how often Mackinnon ends up hitting the ice... here's a hint, it's not because of any issues with his strength, skating or balance

 

[Mrb1p]

Not sure about that. It's what I hear all sports scientists saying about every sport. For example, in boxing some boxers have power because of fast twitch muscle.

Everyone has fast twitch muscles, everyone can train them and everyone can get faster. In reality its much more complex than just saying some arbitrary words like "fast-twitch". Its neurologically that there will be a difference between the best of the best and others. Still, theres very little doubt that Kotkaniemi wont ever "develop" that "fast twitch" or what ever they say.

He needs to stop worrying about the skating. He can be fine with the way it is now. The more pressing need is to just stay on his damn feet. Add muscle, play a big boy game and stop getting knocked on your butt everytime someone breathes on you.

Jee I wonder what could cause this... I wonder what could make him better in that aspect.

I wonder if Victor Hedman is ever going to stop falling all over the place too... I remember his first two years, he was like bambi! Theres no way he improved, right?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Perry is 10 time slower eh? ya thinks ya might be exaggerating some

The difference is talent,plain and simple

of course i was im not Pejorative Slured
i was just saying not being mcdavid fast doesnt mean ur shit at hockey except when ur Lucic

 

[26Mats]

Everyone has fast twitch muscles, everyone can train them and everyone can get faster. In reality its much more complex than just saying some arbitrary words like "fast-twitch". Its neurologically that there will be a difference between the best of the best and others. Still, theres very little doubt that Kotkaniemi wont ever "develop" that "fast twitch" or what ever they say.




Jee I wonder what could cause this... I wonder what could make him better in that aspect.

I wonder if Victor Hedman is ever going to stop falling all over the place too... I remember his first two years, he was like bambi! Theres no way he improved, right?

Omg, the point is that some people can improve their speed to becoming "fast" and some people, although they can improve their speed will never be "fast."

Do you now want to get into a semantic debate about what the word "fast" means or do you understand that KK's skating may always have limitations, no matter how much he works on it...

 

[le_sean]

ever stop to consider that a big part of the reason he does end up knocked over a lot is precisely because of his willingness to play a "big boy game"? He doesn't need to. He has the skill and vision to avoid or minimize contact the way suzuki or caufied do, but he recognizes that with his frame he can put pressure on opponents physically...

and...

he's 20 and has a lanky frame. He needs to, and will, add muscle and better coordination as he fully matures physically. With his work ethic, there's no doubt of that. So, instead of nitpicking because he doesn't have the muscle/strength yet to fight through all of the contact he initiates (and attracts) without getting knocked on his arse a bit... another way to look at it would be to be thrilled that he's got the understanding of how he can bring that element to the table and the competitiveness and willingness to take his licks without backing down.

net positive, rather than negative.

(and if you watch the Vegas/Avs series tonight, take a look at how often Mackinnon ends up hitting the ice... here's a hint, it's not because of any issues with his strength, skating or balance

Caufield and Suzuki avoid physical contact because they have good edge work and agility. KK will never improve that. He has no choice but to engage physically. How is it nitpicking for me to say he needs to get stronger? He falls 5 times a game.

I also think he needs to develop a power game because it’s the only way he’ll get 50 points a season since it’s not happening due to elite vision and game processing.

 

[Be a Hab]

He needs to stop worrying about the skating. He can be fine with the way it is now. The more pressing need is to just stay on his damn feet. Add muscle, play a big boy game and stop getting knocked on your butt everytime someone breathes on you.

I agree. Why is that is that? Is it because he lacks lower body strength? Why does he have such poor balance..

 

[angusyoung]

of course i was im not Pejorative Slured
i was just saying not being mcdavid fast doesnt mean ur shit at hockey except when ur Lucic

There are some slow skaters that put up good numbers, just look at Stone and Toffoli.

 

[salbutera]

The lashing out and tantrums in the other thread because some of us don't see KK as a 1C are hilarious. He just isn't showing it. A solid 3C/2C is what we have here. It's like people think just because he was drafted 3OA, it's going to magically morph his entire being into a player with elite C potential. Lol.

Define 1C? If it’s 80-pts +, the Habs have no one...not even Suzuki, there are some 5-8 of those in the NHL.

 

[le_sean]

I agree. Why is that is that? Is it because he lacks lower body strength? Why does he have such poor balance..

No idea. Seen plenty of light players and never ones that fall on their own as much as him.

 

[Mrb1p]

Omg, the point is that some people can improve their speed to becoming "fast" and some people, although they can improve their speed will never be "fast."

Do you now want to get into a semantic debate about what the word "fast" means or do you understand that KK's skating may always have limitations, no matter how much he works on it...

The point is that, it doesnt exist. Obviously theres genetics difference, but not to the point where hard work and dedication cant overcome this.

 

[Be a Hab]

No idea. Seen plenty of light players and never ones that fall on their own as much as him.

I've seen Kotka fall with no one around him! Quite remarkable really.

 

[Mrb1p]

The lashing out and tantrums in the other thread because some of us don't see KK as a 1C are hilarious. He just isn't showing it. A solid 3C/2C is what we have here. It's like people think just because he was drafted 3OA, it's going to magically morph his entire being into a player with elite C potential. Lol.

Hes a 3C at the moment and produced like a 2C for most of the year until he hit the wall of the worst schedule ever played by a NHL team.

Hes 20, underdeveloped physically and clearly not at his best coordination wise and timing wise.

You basically act like he has plateaud as a player at 20. This is the ridiculous part.

 

[angusyoung]

I agree. Why is that is that? Is it because he lacks lower body strength? Why does he have such poor balance..

Look at his legs those are not hockey legs.

 

[Miller Time]

Caufield and Suzuki avoid physical contact because they have good edge work and agility. KK will never improve that. He has no choice but to engage physically. How is it nitpicking for me to say he needs to get stronger? He falls 5 times a game.

I also think he needs to develop a power game because it’s the only way he’ll get 50 points a season since it’s not happening due to elite vision and game processing.

you can't be serious... either you have very little understanding of what it means to be a professional athlete and have completely ignored all the evidence to the contrary about JKO's very mature and very professional approach to his career... or you're just trolling.

there are plenty of large and small players that don't engage physically, some have good edge work, some don't. Did you see how often Ehlers got put on his butt last series? No edge work issues there. Drouin, as a contrast, doesn't often get put on his ass, and it's not for the same reasons as Caufield.

Caufield avoids physical contact because he knows there's little to gain from him doing so. And. if you watched him closely late in the series against the laffs, he actually did start initiating more contact (strong skating and edge work makes it easier, not harder, to engage in contact). That didn't persist in the series vs the Jets, and I am willing to bet that it was intentional based on some combination of his own assessment and his coaches pointing out that he's better served not trying to play that way.

this take seems highly uninformed to how hockey is played at the elite level, by the top competitors

 

[angusyoung]

I've seen Kotka fall with no one around him! Quite remarkable really.

Maybe it's the number 15? I remember Rejean Houle falling on occasion with no one around him

 

[Be a Hab]

Look at his legs those are not hockey legs.

This is Sid the Kid.

 

[Mrb1p]

This is Sid the Kid.

How did sids legs look when he was 20? Did he grow 4 inches in a year at 16?

 

[Be a Hab]

How did sids legs look when he was 20? Did he grow 4 inches in a year at 16?

I don't know how his legs looked at 20. Good question

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't know how his legs looked at 20. Good question

Hint: not like that.

Ive trained pretty extensively ever since I was 14 and my legs started looking like that towards 23-24, not at 20.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

There are some slow skaters that put up good numbers, just look at Stone and Toffoli.

Never said there was not , just saying KK skating is fine as long he create opportunities and finish his forecheck which he does.

 

[26Mats]

Look at his legs those are not hockey legs.

The modern hockey player is built much differently than hockey players were 5, 10 years ago.

Lehkonen is built like a stick. Yet he's tough onnthe boards. They have to shed weight to be able to get around the 200 foot rink quickly and with endurance to go up and down.

Having said that, the more muscle he builds in his legs, I think the faster amd more endurance he'll have. It will be interesting to see how much better he gets over time.