Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 17

[David Suzuki]

KK interview this am,
He sounds low
Reporters grilled him

Grilled him more then they ever will MB or Molson. Sad.

 

[Roadhouse]

Grilled him more then they ever will MB or Molson. Sad.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are $200 The Keg gift cards sent to some (all?) reporters to keep negativity on ownership/management to a minimum.

KK don't give out no gift card. So KK can get it.

Just a hypothetical.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

What is DD going to do? Continue playing him with some of our best players, continue giving PP time even if it hasn't amounted to anything in more than a month?

If KK had even halfway decent production for his ice time the team wouldn't be "backing in to the playoffs".

Staal gets ice time, he’s infinitely worse at everything. This kk’s fault too? Or do you just defend management and the coaching staff at every turn. DD is the worst coach I’ve seen in my lifetime, worse than Therrien and I didn’t think that was possible.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

KK wasn’t benched for one mistake. He was benched for how he was playing last night. Multiple mistakes.

He played two minutes in the first!

Why the f*** do you even dress him if you're going to do that. It's stupid.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

People here laugh at the "NO EXCUSES" bullshit from Therrien's era and yet, they find all the excuses in the world to explain Kotkaniemi's garbage play. I prefer playing him over Staal but then again, that would give him what... 2 extra minutes of ice time?

He's been moved to the wing, had a rotating cast of linemates, seen PP time go to Staal that should've gone to him... it's dumb.

Nobody here is saying he'd be a point per game player if we'd given him ice and great linemates but it would've helped.

What we consistently do for our younger players is make it harder for them rather than easier. All this does is increase the chances of failure. We have got to be the worst development team in the league.

Give the guy every chance. Let him show what he can do. If he fails, it's a different story. But when you do shit like this it just throws into question how much of it is the player and how much is the coaching. This is the same kind of shit we've seen in the past and I can't believe we still haven't learned any lessons.

 

[Ozmodiar]

He played two minutes in the first!

Why the f*** do you even dress him if you're going to do that. It's stupid.

It was over 3, wasn’t it?

the intention is to play him more, like vs Toronto, but if he comes out flat, and it doesn’t look like his head is in the game, you don’t keep sending him out.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It was over 3, wasn’t it?

the intention is to play him more, like vs Toronto, but if he comes out flat, and it doesn’t look like his head is in the game, you don’t keep sending him out.

Staal has been worse in pretty much every way... Why don't we bench him instead?

Please explain this to me.

 

[Miller Time]

Staal has 2 points in those 18 games. He's been horrendous no doubt.
Anderson has 4 points in 18 games.
Tatar has 5 points in 13 games.

KK has been handed 2nd line duties and good linemates for most of the season and has done squat with it. He got most of his points while playing with Toffoli on his wing. Unless you're arguing that the only way to "develop" him would have been to make him the unquestioned 1st line C even when other players are doing more with him their icetime then him.

I'm not saying he's done as a prospect, because he still has at least 2-3 years to establish himself as an NHLer but his upside is sinking fast. Right now with how he's playing he looks like a discount Lars Eller.

He's getting less ice time than Staal lately, despite being better in just about every facet of the game.

To say he's been getting "2nd line duties & good linemates" is both false & lacking context.

The revolving door of linemates & duties, including being put on the wing a few times, is the exact opposite of setting a young player up for success looks like. In any sane organization, the relative stability Staal has been given is how JKO would've been handled... It's even more confounding given how awful Staal has been.

Anderson hasn't seen his ice time or role shift despite his lack of production... That's the contrast I was making.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Staal has been worse in pretty much every way... Why don't we bench him instead?

Please explain this to me.

He wasn’t worse last night.
We’re still discussing last night’s game, right?

 

[Mrb1p]

Just sit him if youre not going to play him. Who cares at this point.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

I think we can all agree that he should've played at least one year in Finland / AHL but what do we know, right?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He wasn’t worse last night.
We’re still discussing last night’s game, right?

First, you're wrong. Staal was worse last night.
CF Rel
Staal -3.52 (horrible numbers)
KK 1.52

Once again, when KK is on the ice, the puck is more likely to be in the other team's zone. When Staal's on the ice the puck is more likely to be in ours.

Secondly, this is the KK thread not the "last night's game" thread. We're discussing his usage overall.

And even if he did f*** up. I don't care if a player makes a mistake. I don't care if has a bad shift. Esp if he's 20 years old. You let players make mistakes. You don't bench them for it because then it affects future play.

If you're going to play him for two minutes, then bench him altogether and tell him to rest up for the playoffs. Instead, we do this stupid shit.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think we can all agree that he should've played at least one year in Finland / AHL but what do we know, right?

Honestly, he had a great first year. His numbers were awesome for an 18 year old. Right up until CJ said he was tired...

 

[Monsieur Miz]

You make a mistake, you get the belt.

Caufield is one wiff away from getting sent down in favor of Weal.

There was talk of sitting Suzuki a couple of weeks ago as well. Rookies, in term of development, they are just wasting their time on the main line-up.

 

[Captain Mountain]

First, you're wrong. Staal was worse last night.
CF Rel
Staal -3.52 (horrible numbers)
KK 1.52

Once again, when KK is on the ice, the puck is more likely to be in the other team's zone. When Staal's on the ice the puck is more likely to be in ours.

Secondly, this is the KK thread not the "last night's game" thread. We're discussing his usage overall.

And even if he did f*** up. I don't care if a player makes a mistake. I don't care if has a bad shift. Esp if he's 20 years old. You let players make mistakes. You don't bench them for it because then it affects future play.

If you're going to play him for two minutes, then bench him altogether and tell him to rest up for the playoffs. Instead, we do this stupid shit.

Probably shouldn't use these stats for one game. Also:

xGF% Rel:

Staal: 80.28
KK: -38.62

But as I posted earlier, I think KK is playing scared to make a mistake. Which seems to happen to every young player who plays with the Habs.

 

[Ozmodiar]

First, you're wrong. Staal was worse last night.
CF Rel
Staal -3.52 (horrible numbers)
KK 1.52

Once again, when KK is on the ice, the puck is more likely to be in the other team's zone. When Staal's on the ice the puck is more likely to be in ours.

Secondly, this is the KK thread not the "last night's game" thread. We're discussing his usage overall.

And even if he did f*** up. I don't care if a player makes a mistake. I don't care if has a bad shift. Esp if he's 20 years old. You let players make mistakes. You don't bench them for it because then it affects future play.

If you're going to play him for two minutes, then bench him altogether and tell him to rest up for the playoffs. Instead, we do this stupid shit.

Are you having difficulty following the discussion, which was about whether it was just one mistake that landed him on the bench?
... I see we’ve gone full circle.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Probably shouldn't use these stats for one game. Also:

xGF% Rel:

Staal: 80.28
KK: -38.62

But as I posted earlier, I think KK is playing scared to make a mistake. Which seems to happen to every young player who plays with the Habs.

lol... yeah, when you gotta break out the advanced stats to asses 9 minutes of play

 

[Andy]

The tools are there, the effort is there, but he still plays a very immature game.

He still needs to learn how to slow down the game and how to make space for himself.

compare his game to Toffoli who always seems to have ample room on the to make a play. KK always finds himself in a spot where he has like a square foot to force a play.

 

[Not The One]

He's getting less ice time than Staal lately, despite being better in just about every facet of the game.

To say he's been getting "2nd line duties & good linemates" is both false & lacking context.

The revolving door of linemates & duties, including being put on the wing a few times, is the exact opposite of setting a young player up for success looks like. In any sane organization, the relative stability Staal has been given is how JKO would've been handled... It's even more confounding given how awful Staal has been.

Anderson hasn't seen his ice time or role shift despite his lack of production... That's the contrast I was making.

Can't defend Staal at all because he's absolutely putrid. I would guess that his usage is mostly due to cap and call-up issues because he has been historically bad.

KK had plenty of games to turn his play around but hasn't. Posters here whined very loudly when he got put with Evans and Lehk but he actually had a terrific first game with them (his only point in the last month I think) but he did not sustain that. I'm not even sure where he could help the team right now because every line seems to do better without him.

 

[Miller Time]

Can't defend Staal at all because he's absolutely putrid. I would guess that his usage is mostly due to cap and call-up issues because he has been historically bad.

KK had plenty of games to turn his play around but hasn't. Posters here whined very loudly when he got put with Evans and Lehk but he actually had a terrific first game with them (his only point in the last month I think) but he did not sustain that. I'm not even sure where he could help the team right now because every line seems to do better without him.

Right... So we can agree that the 20yr old top prospect asset is struggling. Check.

We can also agree that the veteran ufa-to-be who plays the same position has been "putrid". Check.

Contrast how the two have been handled & there lies the issue.

 

[CHfan1]

 

[morhilane]

KK had plenty of games to turn his play around but hasn't. Posters here whined very loudly when he got put with Evans and Lehk but he actually had a terrific first game with them (his only point in the last month I think) but he did not sustain that. I'm not even sure where he could help the team right now because every line seems to do better without him.

His last point happened in a game that Evans sat. He was with Lehk/Byron, he played 13:35 minutes, his line had a CF% of 70, was not scored on and he was benched in the last 5 minutes...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

They are being purposely patient for KKs own good. Just on the player to step up. Time is now KK!

 

[CHfan1]

They are being purposely patient for KKs own good. Just on the player to step up. Time is now KK!

I agree with Petry below. I think the days off between the regular season and the playoffs is really going to benefit KK, maybe more than anyone on the team. Obviously he’s struggling but he looks mentally and physically drained.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Playoffs can be a page turn. Many on this team including KK could certainly use it.