Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 12)

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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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He's not being ruined but he's certainly not being helped either.

No sophomore should get LESS icetime than in his rookie year.

Because it's been 7 games. And its really only because he hasn't gotten consistent PP time yet (he just got moved back there). He's playing more at ES.

This is all besides the fact that he's really struggled this year (more than last year).
 

azcanuck

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Jan 14, 2014
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I'm telling you - he is a gangly 19 year old kid who doesn't look to have full control over his body on the ice. Yes of course he needs time. You will have to be patient. He is not being ruined.
Exactly. Last year he looked like Bambi at times. His coordination is behind his body, it will catch up.

And the coach's are not "ruining him". This is the NHL. Whoever is playing well will play. Right now KK is a third line type player. And that's okay at 19.

The same B.S. went on with Alex Garbage. Nobody ruined him. He just wasnt that good.
 

tooji

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Nov 24, 2015
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Seeing him live against Tampa I could tell he was just playing a bit more timid than usual. I think he’s taken a few too many hard hits and it’s affected his confidence with the puck mentally. It’s really just confidence. We’ve seen what he’s capable of when he just settles down and plays his game.
 
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ProspectsFanatic

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Nov 13, 2012
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It is hard to keep your confidence high when controlling the puck is experienced as a ticking bomb before opponents' pressure that one can't fend off arrives because of one's lack of speed.
 

cphabs

The 2 stooges….
Dec 21, 2012
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He looks out of sorts and a step behind.

But he has an elite hockey mind and is only 19. I have high hopes for him.
He is being mismanaged. From ice time, line selections, PP, PK, and “needs to get stronger” as a 19 year old. I’m absolutely sure he followed the direction our staff gave him n the off season.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
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he played ok, theres no doubt he needs to be stronger on his skates, he spent alot of time on his ass, but he’s head and shoulders above most of the team when it comes to IQ. He’s consistently able to get his teammates the puck in traffic. Balance and strength will catch up to his skill level in time.
When you say he was able to get his teammates the puck are you referring in general or last night?

Last year his defensive play is what kept him on the team. It was stellar. This year it has gone south. He is constantly out of position and his passing is pedestrian. This vaulted IQ many of you speak about, he has yet to demonstrate it once this year. I'm not saying he doesn't have it. I never noticed him in junior so I wouldn't make that claim. All I'm saying is that so far here in the NHL he has rarely shown me high IQ plays. When you couple that with his atrocious skating, terrible use of a stick that is too long and a defensive game that suddenly left him, you realize he needs to work on his game. And he is not going to do it here. He needs to go to the A.

As for last night's game, I'd say Byron was the only forward who played worse than KK.
 

Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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All your sour sarcasm aside, last night, KK made a few passes through heavy traffic right on a team-mate's blade. On those occasions, I caught myself going, "what!? he actually got that pass through?"

If you guys are watching a game and don't see that, you're just looking at the scoresheet to make up your minds.

KK isn't dominant to start the year, but he's still quite talented for the NHL level and, if he had better finishers on this team, he'd have more points.
 

Andrei79

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Jan 25, 2013
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He looks out of sorts and a step behind.

But he has an elite hockey mind and is only 19. I have high hopes for him.

He also has height, a lot of potential for physical growth to go along great hands, defensive work and outstanding vision. Its all a matter of developing his offense and letting him grow while understanding 19 year olds, even the best ones, have issues without the puck because of the speed of the NHL.
 

Andrei79

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Jan 25, 2013
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Just for fun, I was reading the Tkachuk thread over in Ottawa, a player about 1 year older than KK, and while fans love the guy, some complained he looked like he had weak lower body strength and fell down too much. One said that no other kid falls down as much (we know this isn't true). There are comments about his average puck skills, bad skating, even average shooting skills.


My own viewings paint a picture of a smart kid who's pretty bad without the puck, though exceptional around the net...
But he's 20 and expectations are realistic for a player his age over there. If you're comparing his all around game to a 10 year vet he'll look brutal, but his qualities and production as a 19 year old are significant reasons to be excited.

Well, this is KK in a nutshell. He skates well for one period until he's gassed and then looks slow. That's because he's still weak, not conditioned and hasn't learned how to efficiently manage his energy to the NHL game yet. He has spurts where he looks focused and significantly better without the puck than you say pretty much any 19 year old save the odd Bergeron or Toews, but shows it inconsistently. He falls down too much. Normal happenings for a 19 year old and for anywhere outside the Canadian markets.

His line also plays mostly in the offensive zone, he has a marvelous sense of finding passing lanes and his stick skills are great. He hasnt shown it enough but his shot is both accurate and powerful. He's combative. Really, what he needs is an organization willing to let him grow without stifling his offense by playing him 10 minutes or as a fourth line winger any time he makes a mistake. Those mistakes are not his fault at this point, theyre the guy's fault who decided to rush him on a roster with a coach who doesnt allow them.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
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Just for fun, I was reading the Tkachuk thread over in Ottawa, a player about 1 year older than KK, and while fans love the guy, some complained he looked like he had weak lower body strength and fell down too much. One said that no other kid falls down as much (we know this isn't true). There are comments about his average puck skills, bad skating, even average shooting skills.


My own viewings paint a picture of a smart kid who's pretty bad without the puck, though exceptional around the net...
But he's 20 and expectations are realistic for a player his age over there. If you're comparing his all around game to a 10 year vet he'll look brutal, but his qualities and production as a 19 year old are significant reasons to be excited.

Well, this is KK in a nutshell. He skates well for one period until he's gassed and then looks slow. That's because he's still weak, not conditioned and hasn't learned how to efficiently manage his energy to the NHL game yet. He has spurts where he looks focused and significantly better without the puck than you say pretty much any 19 year old save the odd Bergeron or Toews, but shows it inconsistently. He falls down too much. Normal happenings for a 19 year old and for anywhere outside the Canadian markets.

His line also plays mostly in the offensive zone, he has a marvelous sense of finding passing lanes and his stick skills are great. He hasnt shown it enough but his shot is both accurate and powerful. He's combative. Really, what he needs is an organization willing to let him grow without stifling his offense by playing him 10 minutes or as a fourth line winger any time he makes a mistake. Those mistakes are not his fault at this point, theyre the guy's fault who decided to rush him on a roster with a coach who doesnt allow them.
Music to my ears

In fact, thats a master piece
 

GHJimmy

We made it here.
Mar 30, 2018
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Once Claude Julien is gone, i think we get better, he's using the boston era, I'd like to see kotka with more advantage over top lines and get comfortable to use that level of competence for the game.
 

Archijerej

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Jan 17, 2005
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KK isn't dominant to start the year, but he's still quite talented for the NHL level and, if he had better finishers on this team, he'd have more points.
Contrary to last season, I don't really recall him setting up scoring chances this year. And these constant complaints about linemates have to stop. We were a high octane 5-on-5 club last season. We are a high octane 5-on-5 club this season. He's playing with our most productive wingers. The excuses are tedious, really. And some intellectual consistency wouldn't hurt either. If you get the same people, who in the span of a month can claim that Kotkaniemi was rushed and then demand an increased role for him, you know you're not dealing with an honest discussion.
 
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Archijerej

Registered User
Jan 17, 2005
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But he's 20 and expectations are realistic for a player his age over there. If you're comparing his all around game to a 10 year vet he'll look brutal, but his qualities and production as a 19 year old are significant reasons to be excited
Agreed. But if you read the thread carefully, I think you'll find that it's actually Kotkaniemi's "critiques" who have realistic expectations and preach patience. It's certainly not us who were driving the mostly histerical discussion about how his role should be increased immediately. It's because the flaws you mentioned in your post are apparent to us.
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
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Just want to provide some context for the tin foil hat, sky is falling, conspiracy infants..........Kotkaniemi is the 4th youngest player in the league. Expect baby steps from babies and don't blame the parents if he isn't sprinting yet...........he will get there when he gets there.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
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Contrary to last season, I don't really recall him setting up scoring chances this year. And these constant complaints about linemates have to stop. We were a high octane 5-on-5 club last season. We are a high octane 5-on-5 club this season. He's playing with our most productive wingers. The excuses are tedious, really. And some intellectual consistency wouldn't hurt either. If you get the same people, who in the span of a month can claim that Kotkaniemi was rushed and then demand an increased role for him, you know you're not dealing with an honest discussion.
honest discussion ?? quite funny coming from a guy who always has the same position no matter the topic (wich is, defend the Org at all cost)
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
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Just want to provide some context for the tin foil hat, sky is falling, conspiracy infants..........Kotkaniemi is the 4th youngest player in the league. Expect baby steps from babies and don't blame the parents if he isn't sprinting yet...........he will get there when he gets there.
sure, one day he'll get more TOI and SOME responsibilities... we'll just wait, it's not like he's one of the best players of his age or something, nope, we're not pushing him, not even just a little... we wait. THAT is the plan, wait...
 

Estimated_Prophet

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Mar 28, 2003
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sure, one day he'll get more TOI and SOME responsibilities... we'll just wait, it's not like he's one of the best players of his age or something, nope, we're not pushing him, not even just a little... we wait. THAT is the plan, wait...

He is getting 13 minutes a game and making plenty of mistakes while he is amongst the 0.5% youngest players in the league.
To make any attempt to say that management is holding him back is at best egregiously dishonest.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
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He is getting 13 minutes a game and making plenty of mistakes while he is amongst the 0.5% youngest players in the league.
To make any attempt to say that management is holding him back is at best egregiously dishonest.
you know he has just as much of not more NHL experience than guys drafted the same year, or even the year before right ??
 

Estimated_Prophet

Registered User
Mar 28, 2003
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you know he has just as much of not more NHL experience than guys drafted the same year, or even the year before right ??

Which is absolute evidence that management is providing him with more opportunity than most players who are where drafted the year before him......the problem from working from a bias driven narrative is the further down the rabbit hole you venture the further from you deviate from the truth.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
Which is absolute evidence that management is providing him with more opportunity than most players who are where drafted the year before him......the problem from working from a bias driven narrative is the further down the rabbit hole you venture the further from you deviate from the truth.
the truth ??

So you're not talking with this (false) preconcieved notion that "waiting is developping" or "he'll get there eventually" or anything like that, you're just speaking because you know the truth. YEAH that must be it! you know the truth!

what a f***ing waste of time :facepalm::facepalm:

(dont forget to post that he's young next time you atlk about it)

bye.
 
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