Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 11)

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ahmedou

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Oct 7, 2017
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His time will come. As soon as he's ready. Don't excessively abuse on over overrating him nor under underrating him. He's slowly but surely in the right track. He begins to use well his long stick. Less of falling down to the ice in each physical and body contact...
 

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

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Name them [MOD]
Nate Thompson , Tomas Tatar , Paul Byron , Jordan Weal , Arturi Lekhonen , Cale Fleury , Nick Suzuki , Christian Folin , Mike Reilly , Brett Kulak , Ben Chiarot

I lied , thats 11

[MOD] you literally have nothing to back up that Kotka played bad this season and u have 0 reason to tell me that he dont deserve PP time over weal and Byron.
 
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Mrb1p

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Same here. I don't agree with your criticism of Julien when it comes to Kotkaniemi's deployment, but he's been fine so far. He's more effective in puck battles, doesn't fall nearly as often and is better at protecting and distributing the puck. That's basically all I had hoped for before this season. The only thing I detest is that he's getting a Galchenyuk treatment from the portion of the fanbase, meaning they bend over themselves trying to find excuses when the kid does something wrong. But that's not on the player.
Suzuki, on the other hand, is making a great impersonation of Byron Froese out there.
If Kotkaniemi does all that, shouldn't he be getting more ice-time than he is ? He sits at the 2nd last, just above Fleury right now. How does that make sense ? Shouldn't he get increasing responsabilities ? Why isn't he on the powerplay?

Jesperi is at the top of the team in Gper60, hes earned more ice IMO.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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The kid is still just 19. He is adjusting to his body right now et he had an horrific camp. Let him earn his minutes.

That being said, i think with the wrister hes got, he would be a perfect candidate on the first pp unit. I'm from the school of thought you should put all your talent on the first pp unit. For me, first PP should be a combination of Weber, Drouin, Domi, Tatar, KK, Suzuki, Gallagher, Petry.

There's lot of guys who don't need to earn their minutes.

If I may say this but Montreal isn't a top Cup contender, they are hurting Kotka's game for no real reason here.
Battle for WC spot ain't good enough reasoning.

It's not secret Boston changed once Julien was gone.
 

WeThreeKings

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But why is Suzuki getting ice-time while Kotkaniemi isn't ? Kotkaniemi has been better than Suzuki, at both ends of the ice.

Kotkaniemis defensive metrics were some of the best on the team last year. So if it was by play on ice then he would already be playing the PK.
 
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Mrb1p

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Kotkaniemis defensive metrics were some of the best on the team last year. So if it was by play on ice then he would already be playing the PK.
Its almost as if Julien coaches based solely on reputation. Domi is an offensive guy so he gets 16 minutes but I wont use him late in games when I need to close things down, Danault has always been a checking C so Ill use him there, etc.
 

WeThreeKings

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Its almost as if Julien coaches based solely on reputation. Domi is an offensive guy so he gets 16 minutes but I wont use him late in games when I need to close things down, Danault has always been a checking C so Ill use him there, etc.

"Thompson is reliable defensively"

He says as he continuously blocks routine shots for his 10 million dollar goalie and proceeds to create an empty net scramble opportunity for the opposition.
 

NotProkofievian

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Nov 29, 2011
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it's amazing the lengths some posters will go to try and justify a previously held take... completely ignoring what actually happens on the ice and instead repeating the same tired excuses & justifications over and over again.

It's even more amazing that you and your ilk don't realize that you personify "justifying a previously held take".

I'm actually not sure which side of what argument either of you are on, only that you don't agree with one another.
 

Andrei79

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Jan 25, 2013
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"Thompson is reliable defensively"

He says as he continuously blocks routine shots for his 10 million dollar goalie and proceeds to create an empty net scramble opportunity for the opposition.

I don't understand that label he gets either. He's below average defensively and a disaster offensively.

I also recall you citing Billy Beane trading away one of his coaches pet players to make the team better, in regards to Thompson. That was a perfect comparison. Thompson, a 35 yo nothing player, is getting played over who should become our most important forward.
 

Mrb1p

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"Thompson is reliable defensively"

He says as he continuously blocks routine shots for his 10 million dollar goalie and proceeds to create an empty net scramble opportunity for the opposition.
Danault is reliable defensively
Its very, very weird how a lot of pro coaches don't have the ability to assess simple things like that. Its as if people don't realize that youre not doing a good job when youre in your end of the ice, no matter what happens there.

The worship most hockey fan show for the blue-collar, below-average player is quite simply amazing and would make for a heck of a thesis in sociology. Seems like it all started with Bob Gainey or something. There was also this belief back in the 80s and late 70s that Gretzky was a lesser player than Trottier because he didn't have the same physicality, leadership qualities and defensive acumen.

Hockey fans are stupid.
 

DramaticGloveSave

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But why is Suzuki getting ice-time while Kotkaniemi isn't ? Kotkaniemi has been better than Suzuki, at both ends of the ice.
Because Suzuki is playing the wing. Kotkaniemi has only lost shifts when there’s been big draws and that’s because he sucks in the circle. It’s not some conspiracy bro. The guy is playing with talent now, that was the only argument that was legit last year.
 

Mrb1p

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I don't understand that label he gets either. He's below average defensively and a disaster offensively.

I also recall you citing Billy Beane trading away one of his coaches pet players to make the team better, in regards to Thompson. That was a perfect comparison. Thompson, a 35 yo nothing player, is getting played over who should become our most important forward.
You don't understand the label ? Below average players have been labelled as such for decades. My guess is that they are more relatable to the average fan, and a reflection of the blue-collar mentality in sports. There's no other way to explain it.

I can't really recall a guy that stuck around in the NHL that wasn't known as either an offensive player, a two-way threat, or a defensively sound player. That last one is mostly used to describe scrubs.
 

WeThreeKings

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Because Suzuki is playing the wing. Kotkaniemi has only lost shifts when there’s been big draws and that’s because he sucks in the circle. It’s not some conspiracy bro. The guy is playing with talent now, that was the only argument that was legit last year.

He's playing with Drouin who is playing some of his best hockey but that line can't get more ice time than Thomson's.

It's straight wrong.

Sometimes the development of an important player is more important than the immediate result.

KK developing his offensive game and becoming a PP weapon is far more important than whatever Weal will ever contribute.
 
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Mrb1p

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Because Suzuki is playing the wing. Kotkaniemi has only lost shifts when there’s been big draws and that’s because he sucks in the circle. It’s not some conspiracy bro. The guy is playing with talent now, that was the only argument that was legit last year.
He played 12 minutes last night, 6 of those minutes came in the 3rd period. He played 3 minutes on average in the 1st and 2nd, when were the big draws?

Do you also realize that danault is at 45% on the year?

You don't consider playing more than 12 minutes a night "legit"?

You don't consider playing more PP than Weal, Armia, Danault, Lekhonen and Suzuki "legit"?
 

DramaticGloveSave

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He's playing with Drouin who is playing some of his best hockey but that line can't get more ice time than Thomson's.

It's straight wrong.

Sometimes the development of an important player is more important than the immediate result.

KK developing his offensive game and becoming a PP weapon is far more important than whatever Weal will ever contribute.
The guy is playing with talent, and appears to be on the PP again. The fact they are sheltering him is better for his development than forcing him to handle more than he can and losing confidence.
 

WeThreeKings

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The guy is playing with talent, and appears to be on the PP again. The fact they are sheltering him is better for his development than forcing him to handle more than he can and losing confidence.

He barely saw the PP and didn't play it in the later portions of the game. And there is no situation in where KK is gonna lose confidence by being trusted on the powerplay. It's the one area even the shittiest of coaches give their younger players ice time because there's more space and more talent on the ice.
 

DramaticGloveSave

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He played 12 minutes last night, 6 of those minutes came in the 3rd period. He played 3 minutes on average in the 1st and 2nd, when were the big draws?

Do you also realize that danault is at 45% on the year?

You don't consider playing more than 12 minutes a night "legit"?

You don't consider playing more PP than Weal, Armia, Danault, Lekhonen and Suzuki "legit"?
We beat the freaking Blues last night, stop complaining. The guy is literally playing with our top winger and we are only 5 games in.
 

Mrb1p

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The guy is playing with talent, and appears to be on the PP again. The fact they are sheltering him is better for his development than forcing him to handle more than he can and losing confidence.
Oh yeah, I bet he'll lose a lot of confidence playing hockey instead of looking at it and not playing.

Also lots of confidence to be lost on the PP.
 

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
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He barely saw the PP and didn't play it in the later portions of the game. And there is no situation in where KK is gonna lose confidence by being trusted on the powerplay. It's the one area even the ****tiest of coaches give their younger players ice time because there's more space and more talent on the ice.
He played PP last night. He’s playing with Drouin. He’s getting regular shifts. He’s playing center. We won the game. Give it a f***ing rest.
 
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