Prospect Info: Jesperi Kotkaniemi (1st round pick, 3OA 2018 - signed ELC) - Post-development camp edition

[Mrb1p]

The Habs also can't afford to add good players to their roster, they need to keep tanking.

Two years is way enough to me. Snagging two potential 1Cs in a row is just what is needed.

 

[Scriptor]

The way he rose in the rankings though. If another team was drafting at three, do you think they take a pass on this kid based on one fact alone and that is the value of a potential(because that's all they are) number one center? Number one center is the most important position in the NHL, you can get by with an average D core if you have a good 1-2 combo( something I have always wanted), they control the game. Max Pacioretty could have been a 40-50 goal man with a good number one center, we can't ignore that.

Seriously, people should watch how this is getting out of control for projections related to Kotkaniemi and look back at how they had become blown out of proportions for Galchenyuk.

Kotkaniemi was talked about as a #1C only because the Habs are desperate for one. He wasn't touted as a #1C for ages, from the get-go. at all. Upside to become a top-6 C would be more reasonable. The rest would be a huge bonus.

Now, some want to make it sound like he was the talk of the last trade as a future #1C. Get real, please.

 

[Mrb1p]

Seriously, people should watch how this is getting out of control for projections related to Kotkaniemi and look back at how they had become blown out of proportions for Galchenyuk.

Kotkaniemi was talked about as a #1C only because the Habs are desperate for one. He wasn't touted as a #1C for ages, from the get-go. at all. Upside to become a top-6 C would be more reasonable. The rest would be a huge bonus.

Now, some want to make it sound like he was the talk of the last trade as a future #1C. Get real, please.

You know who wasnt talked about a franchise player from the get go but is now ? Dahlin. He was no where just two years ago.

He has 1C potential, just like Galchenyuk had it, you don't get drafted 3rd overall if you don't have it.

Mike Morreale - NHL.com - April 30: "Kotkaniemi, who compares his style of play to Pittsburgh Penguins center Evgeni Malkin, is a playmaker with strong hockey sense, a good compete level, a quick shot, and a nose for the net."

Craig Button - TSN - April 28: "He plays the game in a similar fashion to Anze Kopitar and to Blackhawks captain Jonathan Toews."

Does that sound like someone whos not a potential 1c ?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Seriously, people should watch how this is getting out of control for projections related to Kotkaniemi and look back at how they had become blown out of proportions for Galchenyuk.

Kotkaniemi was talked about as a #1C only because the Habs are desperate for one. He wasn't touted as a #1C for ages, from the get-go. at all. Upside to become a top-6 C would be more reasonable. The rest would be a huge bonus.

Now, some want to make it sound like he was the talk of the last trade as a future #1C. Get real, please.

I think winning the gold medal at the U-18 Worlds as a 1C should give people reason to believe he's a 1c in the making.

 

[DAChampion]

Galchenyuk had top-C potential and it should not have been rushed.

 

[OldCraig71]

Seriously, people should watch how this is getting out of control for projections related to Kotkaniemi and look back at how they had become blown out of proportions for Galchenyuk.

Kotkaniemi was talked about as a #1C only because the Habs are desperate for one. He wasn't touted as a #1C for ages, from the get-go. at all. Upside to become a top-6 C would be more reasonable. The rest would be a huge bonus.

Now, some want to make it sound like he was the talk of the last trade as a future #1C. Get real, please.

What is with you? Did you even read my post? Some of you bounce around this site screaming about all of the negativity and then when someone like myself tries to post something that is anything but negative you try and make it sound like I am setting the bar to high as a means to say I told you so if the kid fails. Furthermore I never even insinuated that he was a number one but that I was hopeful that he would be, I think you should reread what I wrote.

 

[BLONG7]

If this kid impresses at camp, what do they do with him? Back to Finland, or go to Laval?? Can he play in the AHL at 18 yrs old?

 

[Adam Michaels]

If this kid impresses at camp, what do they do with him? Back to Finland, or go to Laval?? Can he play in the AHL at 18 yrs old?

Yes, he can play in AHL because he was drafted out of Europe.

Only players drafted out of the CHL have to either make the NHL team or go back to Junior. They can't play in AHL unless they're 20 or have played 4 seasons of Major Junior (which I think at least 25 games count as a full season).

 

[Mrb1p]

If this kid impresses at camp, what do they do with him? Back to Finland, or go to Laval?? Can he play in the AHL at 18 yrs old?

Yes he can, but hell likely struggle.

 

[Habs]

You know who wasnt talked about a franchise player from the get go but is now ? Dahlin. He was no where just two years ago.

He has 1C potential, just like Galchenyuk had it, you don't get drafted 3rd overall if you don't have it.





Does that sound like someone whos not a potential 1c ?

Yakupov is a gifted goal scoring forward, something that really doesn’t seem to come around that often, so when one does he is a hot commodity. His explosive bursts of speed and understanding of scoring principles off the rush is very similar to that of what we saw from Taylor Hall a couple years ago, but also has some people thinking Pavel Bure. He is a dynamic and electrifying player that can bring fans to their feet and is a prime talent for marketing the sport in any locale or market. He is a player that should be able to step into the next level very quickly and continue to progress. Put all that together and you still only have a glimpse of what makes him such a desirable prospect and the number one ranked for us at ISS.”

- International Scouting Services Head Scout Ross MacLean

Scouts get it wrong all the time. From Yakupov to Grigorenko, you just never know.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yakupov is a gifted goal scoring forward, something that really doesn’t seem to come around that often, so when one does he is a hot commodity. His explosive bursts of speed and understanding of scoring principles off the rush is very similar to that of what we saw from Taylor Hall a couple years ago, but also has some people thinking Pavel Bure. He is a dynamic and electrifying player that can bring fans to their feet and is a prime talent for marketing the sport in any locale or market. He is a player that should be able to step into the next level very quickly and continue to progress. Put all that together and you still only have a glimpse of what makes him such a desirable prospect and the number one ranked for us at ISS.”

- International Scouting Services Head Scout Ross MacLean

Scouts get it wrong all the time. From Yakupov to Grigorenko, you just never know.

Yes.... and yet?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Yakupov is a gifted goal scoring forward, something that really doesn’t seem to come around that often, so when one does he is a hot commodity. His explosive bursts of speed and understanding of scoring principles off the rush is very similar to that of what we saw from Taylor Hall a couple years ago, but also has some people thinking Pavel Bure. He is a dynamic and electrifying player that can bring fans to their feet and is a prime talent for marketing the sport in any locale or market. He is a player that should be able to step into the next level very quickly and continue to progress. Put all that together and you still only have a glimpse of what makes him such a desirable prospect and the number one ranked for us at ISS.”

- International Scouting Services Head Scout Ross MacLean

Scouts get it wrong all the time. From Yakupov to Grigorenko, you just never know.

yeah from one highly touted Russian from the worst draft ever ALL THE WAY to the other highly touted Russian from the same horrible draft who fell 20 spots.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I wonder if they traded for Armia was to give this kid a comfort zone if you will? It is not an easy feat for basically what is a child to come to a new country and try to learn a fast paced new language and try to adapt to a new culture. I want to see him succeed, we need something, anything.

Well yeah Armia was his idol growing up...

 

[Meat Wave]

Dont have to look back too far, Strome, Heiskanen, Pulju have yet to make it. Its all about where they get, not when

Only Strome is a good example of a team playing the patience card.

Pulju had 93 GP before turning 20 (not saying he was handled the right way), and Heiskanen, well he's a 2017 draft pick. So basiscally the Stars waited just one year to have him come over.

Kotka can take his time, as you said it's about where they get. But 2020-2021? I'll be shocked, and worried too if he's not proven to be ready to rock by then.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

You know who wasnt talked about a franchise player from the get go but is now ? Dahlin. He was no where just two years ago.

He has 1C potential, just like Galchenyuk had it, you don't get drafted 3rd overall if you don't have it
Does that sound like someone whos not a potential 1c ?

These are comparisons in style of play not projected likely outcomes. This should be quite obvious unless you are searching for a supportig bias.

For example, Danault plays a similar style to Bergeron but he is not nearly as good.

 

[26Mats]

It's all a projection game.

Yes, that's true. For me it's just not an interesting game. I know virtually nothing about how Kotka or Ylonen's games will translate to the NHL. Maybe in a year I'll have some semblance of a notion of where I project them. If we're lucky we'll have a notion after trainning camp. But most likely it will take 2 to 3 years.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

If he shows he's ready, slotting him between Lehkonen and Armia would be a prettty good situation for him.

 

[Mrb1p]

These are comparisons in style of play not projected likely outcomes. This should be quite obvious unless you are searching for a supportig bias.

For example, Danault plays a similar style to Bergeron but he is not nearly as good.

I dont believe that. Ultimately, to play a certain way, you need a certain skillset. JK wouldnt get compared to those guys if he didnt have a similar skillset.

 

[SOLR]

He has 1C potential, just like Galchenyuk had it, you don't get drafted 3rd overall if you don't have it.

No, try again.

There is this thing called "Good and Bad Draft Years". Plus at any given time in the NHL, there is 20-25 of these in existence. Anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the league run with centers that are not top-line centers on their first line. Those teams with 2 of them, often win the cup (Penguins etc.)

There was no first line center available this year. Jesperi is good and has great potential, but he will never be Mcdavid-Crosby-Malkin-Tavares-Matthews-Eichel-Bergeron-Toews-Barkov- etc. Who knows maybe we hit the jackpot of a guy like Couturier who develops extremely well and becomes a 1C for a few years, but...a team with Couturier vs. a team with Crosby, there will always be a gap. If we could get such phenom and have Jesperi in the #2 spot...this is where we can compete against the big teams.

 

[Mrb1p]

No, try again.

There is this thing called "Good and Bad Draft Years". Plus at any given time in the NHL, there is 20-25 of these in existence. Anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the league run with centers that are not top-line centers on their first line. Those teams with 2 of them, often win the cup (Penguins etc.)

There was no first line center available this year. Jesperi is good and has great potential, but he will never be Mcdavid-Crosby-Malkin-Tavares-Matthews-Eichel-Bergeron-Toews-Barkov- etc. Who knows maybe we hit the jackpot of a guy like Couturier who develops extremely well and becomes a 1C for a few years, but...a team with Couturier vs. a team with Crosby, there will always be a gap. If we could get such phenom and have Jesperi in the #2 spot...this is where we can compete against the big teams.

Toews? Why would he not be Toews? Also, youre confusing elite/generational/franchise with 1C. No, Jesperi doesnt have the potential to be as good as Crosby, but he does however have potential to be a 70 points C, which is a 1C on any given team.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Let's settle the debate: what is a 1C to everyone here in objective terms? I mean in terms of numbers, concrete things that the center can do and how often he has to do them in order to justify the label.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Let's settle the debate: what is a 1C to everyone here in objective terms? I mean in terms of numbers, concrete things that the center can do and how often he has to do them in order to justify the label.

65 + points to me is a no. 1 center as long as they play a complete game in all situations and against other top lines.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Let's settle the debate: what is a 1C to everyone here in objective terms? I mean in terms of numbers, concrete things that the center can do and how often he has to do them in order to justify the label.

Technically a 1C would be a top 31 center in the NHL. But then there is what I call a "legit 1C" which brings you to the grouping in the top 15-16 or so- as in they would be a 1C for about half the teams in the league. Then the next grouping for me is a top 10 C, followed by an elite top 5 C, and then you have your generational guys like Crosby and McDavid.

In terms of Kotkaniemi, I think he has 1C upside (top 31) for sure, but I believe a lot would have to go right for him to get to that "Legit 1C" (top 15) level. As well, I don't think being a top 10 C is really within his grasp either.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Technically a 1C would be a top 31 center in the NHL. But then there is what I call a "legit 1C" which brings you to the grouping in the top 15-16 or so- as in they would be a 1C for about half the teams in the league. Then the next grouping for me is a top 10 C, followed by an elite top 5 C, and then you have your generational guys like Crosby and McDavid.

In terms of Kotkaniemi, I think he has 1C upside (top 31) for sure, but I believe a lot would have to go right for him to get to that "Legit 1C" (top 15) level. As well, I don't think being a top 10 C is really within his grasp either.

Yeah at any given time the 25-31 centers are going to be ''1C by a technicality.'' But what I'm interested in is what objective things do these 1-24 centers do that make them the mythical beasts we call ''legit 1Cs.''

I'll take a stab: first, they play a lot of minutes. We're talkin 15 even strength minutes per game, around abouts. Now, what happens when they're playing these minutes? They generate a lot of scoring chances. Connor McDavid generates about 12 individual scoring chances per hour. That's more than Phillip Danault's corsi/hr. Like, holy shit. The lines that they play on generate on average at least 30 scoring chances per hour. Some generate less, but must compensate with stellar defensive play (e.g. Anze Kopitar). That, to me, is the essence of a 1C. They're on the ice a lot, and when they're on the ice, you significantly outchance the opponent.

I'll note that this excludes players like Ryan O'Reilly who, on a point total basis, might be called a 1C.

 

[DAChampion]

There are 31 number 1 centres in the NHL.

The fact that itsi difficult to rank them precisely is a pedantic argument. Yes, the 22nd best on one person's list might be the 34th on another. That just means that werew not sure who the number 1 centers are. It happens .