wetcoast
Registered User
- Nov 20, 2018
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Wait... Garrett is still working...??
Yes
- John Garrett: 1986–1998, 2006–2008, 2014–present
List of Hockey Night in Canada commentators - Wikipedia
Wait... Garrett is still working...??
Better adjusted stats. Mike is 19th alltime. Turgeon is 30th while Roenick is only 39th.
...
Better playoff performance and a cup.
During [Turgeon's] prime, teams regularly identified him as a problem holding the team back from becoming a winner and traded him for players with stronger intangible qualities (ie: Muller, Corson).
Additionally, he missed 20 games a season in a 6 year stretch between 27-33 yo. That's a 3rd of his career and right in the middle of his prime. It's difficult to create a legacy when you're on the shelf.
Yes. I was talking about Modano having roughly 50 more points than Turgeon. Why does Modano get in and Turgeon doesn't?
Also I was wondering if Roenick is 2nd on the All-Time American-born scoring list.
Modano was the best skater and franchise player on a cup winner and perennial cup contender for 7 seasons or so. Roenick never took a team he "led" to cup contention (92 and 95 being the exceptions). As great of a playoff performer as Roenick was, I think that's the difference at the end of the day.
Modano was the franchise player, but in the 1999 stanley cup run Belfour to me was the best player of the team. And in that title Belfour and Nieuwendyk were the 2 best Dallas players in the playoffs...
Roenick 1992 run to me was more impressive than any of Modano three finals runs (1991, 1999 and 2000)... Which goes to what I think, Roenick was better in both guys peak, but Modano beats him in the long run.
Somebody needs to say "No chance for the Goalie"Wait... Garrett is still working...??
Roenick is Ciccarelli 2.0.
His controversial behavior will keep him out for a while.. but he'll eventually get in. And honestly, he wouldn't be amongst the worst inductees overall. I'd put him ahead of Tkachuk, Bondra and the likes.
I'd argue Larionov is worse. But he's got the whole Soviet legacy boosting his stock.but those two aren’t in the hall of fame
in general i do and don’t agree with you though. yes there are way worse players in there than jr. but almost all of them are wingers. if he was in, would he be the worst post-expansion center? i think it only depends on how you evaluate carbonneau. the next worst classic offensive star centers are sittler and federko right?
but then also, i think this embarrassment of a lawsuit is going to follow him for a long long time. he really seems to be digging his in heels on the side of a culture war just doesn’t seem like is going to turn out in his favour.
I'd argue Larionov is worse. But he's got the whole Soviet legacy boosting his stock.
I don't believe Sundin was better than Roenick. Might have been a bit more consistent, but that's it. If the year is 1993, I'm taking Roenick over Sundin on my team.
He peaked higher than Nieuwendyk ever did as well.
and his performances representing the US Olympic Team were embarrassing
his performances representing the US Olympic Team were embarrassing
but those two aren’t in the hall of fame
in general i do and don’t agree with you though. yes there are way worse players in there than jr. but almost all of them are wingers. if he was in, would he be the worst post-expansion center? i think it only depends on how you evaluate carbonneau. the next worst classic offensive star centers are sittler and federko right?
but then also, i think this embarrassment of a lawsuit is going to follow him for a long long time. he really seems to be digging his in heels on the side of a culture war just doesn’t seem like is going to turn out in his favour.
I don't think Roenick should have been talking about such personal things in his life, that isn't my style, but I also think there is this punishment we have for wanting colourful athletes and then shunning them the second they make off colour remarks.
I didn't actually hear the podcast he was on, I just saw the quotes, but my question is, was he being goaded into saying some controversial things? Was it one of those "man to man" type of heat of the moment discussions that you would talk with your buddies about behind closed doors and he just forgot for a second that he was on air?
The reason I say this is because I've seen Wayne Gretzky on Howard Stern before and those two couldn't be more different. Howard purposely says shocking things and even during that interview I remember him on multiple occasions talking about how attractive Janet was and hoping to goad Gretzky into a more intimate conversation about her. Gretzky didn't bite, he just sort of seemed to take it as a strange compliment, but the point is that could have easily turned into sharing something he could regret.
On the ice, I always have Roenick as one of the best players not in, but just slightly below the bar. If there was a King for the Hall of Good, he's there.
Looking back at Roenick's career, it's pretty solid. I think, where he gets docked some points is 1995-96 (last season in Chicago) and 1997-98 (second season in Phoenix). He missed some games in '95 (short season), and that was a weirdly low-scoring year, so his 34 points in 33 games is okay, esp. considering he was injured.
But his 1995-96 totals are harder to explain. The Hawks were still pretty good at that point, and it was the last sort-of high scoring season, so his 67 points in 66 games (matching the production of 34-year-old Bernie Nicholls) is hard to explain, given that Roenick should've been right in his prime.
I'll give him a pass for that first season in Phoenix -- he did all right, and it's the first year with a new club. But, although the DPE arrives in full force in 1997-98, his 56 point season (still only aged 28) looks rather suspect. He managed to outscore Cliff Ronning by one point and Teppo Numinen by 5.
After that, he seemed to straighten himself out and he put together three pretty solid seasons in Phoenix, leading the club in scoring every year.
His three seasons in Philly before the Lock-Out are easy to dismiss, but, ya know, the first year he scored 67 points in 75 games and went +32. That was a good team, and he was first on it in assists, points, and plus/minus despite being past his prime. And despite his forgettable point totals, he also led that team in scoring the next year, too!
So, I'm just saying, it's not really a case of "he was great for a few years in Chicago and then nothing". But I'm still left wondering where he was in 1995-96 and 1997-98. He was still in his prime both seasons and didn't play like an All Star.