Coaches Coroner
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Who is writing him off? I've seen mostly people who still rave about him and who get bent out of shape if anyone criticizes the weak aspects of his game.
Prospect Info: Jeremy Bracco with Windsor
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Who is writing him off? I've seen mostly people who still rave about him and who get bent out of shape if anyone criticizes the weak aspects of his game.
Rocky Thompson runs a very heavy cycle, and an overall defensively focused system.
He doesn't flourish in that environment. He's looked far more pedestrian here, than he did in Kitchener.
He doesn't flourish in that environment. He's looked far more pedestrian here, than he did in Kitchener.
67Cup
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I hope the Last Word people will do a quick edit and correct Bracco's season stats.
A couple of the real questions were not addressed in the article. Size is not the only challenge. One of the main questions is whether Bracco will play with the necessary intensity and involvement on the defensive end. The second has to do with his speed. A number of observers say he is quick but not fast. I think that is an accurate description. Does the lack of top end speed represent a problem? We'll see. A different kind of question will be whether there is room for him on the Leafs, given his style.
If Bracco answers the first two questions with his play, he can be a valuable piece in a trade even if he isn't a fit fir the Leafs.
A couple of the real questions were not addressed in the article. Size is not the only challenge. One of the main questions is whether Bracco will play with the necessary intensity and involvement on the defensive end. The second has to do with his speed. A number of observers say he is quick but not fast. I think that is an accurate description. Does the lack of top end speed represent a problem? We'll see. A different kind of question will be whether there is room for him on the Leafs, given his style.
If Bracco answers the first two questions with his play, he can be a valuable piece in a trade even if he isn't a fit fir the Leafs.
Myopic
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In regards to "speed" they were saying the same thing about Marner last year. I'm quite impressed at how fast Marner is with the puck.
In regards to intensity, Babcock will take care of that. Either he plays hard at both ends of the rink or he doesn't play. Nobody thought that Kadri had it in him either.
Myopic
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No, it's not a bad argument when others have done it. Weren't they questioning Stamkos' or Tavaras' speed also coming into the league? Bracco is apparently a great skater in terms of shiftiness. He'll probably increase his speed also. Players have proven that it can be done. Gretz wasn't exactly a blazer either.
DarkKnight
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I don't recall any concern about Marner's speed. Size was the only thing I remember.
Super Mega
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It is a bad argument when you cherry pick a few elite players that went at the top of the draft. Tons of players don't make the cut at the NHL level due to speed with elite junior performance, Bracco is still a huge question mark as to that transition.
Myopic
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I never said there was a concern.
People were saying he didn't have elite speed as a junior. Smaller players usually separate themselves by having blazing speed. Marner was known for having elite edge work and maneuverability. No question he has improved his straight ahead speed.
DarkKnight
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You made the comparison with Bracco, I didn't think there is an analogy there. Marner was a can't miss NHL quality prospect, Bracco is a project.
67Cup
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Using an outlier in a category as a counter to a statement about the group as a whole is an error. It is also an error with respect to most statements about an individual within that category. Imagine that we are talking about a one handed baseball player named X. Someone says that is a problem and he probably won't make the majors. You reply, "Pete Gray and Jim Abbott made it." That would be a logically correct rebuttal if and only if someone had been saying "No one handed player can make the majors." It does not, in fact, say anything about player X, beyond that it would be wrong to state that there is no possibility he can make the bigs. The general probability of X making it to the Show are influenced by a host of other factors, including the record of the category as a whole.
I have not stated nor do I believe that Bracco has no chance of making the Leafs or the NHL in general. I think what I stated earlier, that there are questions not just about his size, but his defensive play and his top end speed. Saying that Marner made it is irrelevant for a series of reasons.
I have not stated nor do I believe that Bracco has no chance of making the Leafs or the NHL in general. I think what I stated earlier, that there are questions not just about his size, but his defensive play and his top end speed. Saying that Marner made it is irrelevant for a series of reasons.
Myopic
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Enough with the strawman.
I used Marner as an example of a player increasing his speed. I also used Stamkos/Tavaras. The topic was skating,specifically straight ahead speed.
The strawman is comparing them as hockey players, which I certainly didn't.
DarkKnight
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Nobody questioned Marner's speed, so I don't know where the straw man comes in, it was your flawed analogy.
As for Bracco he has a weird stride, but it gets him around...his first step looks slow but he is good on his edges obviously. There is a big question mark as to whether his game translates to the NHL...probably explains why the team was so late to sign him. Worth a flyer, he does have sweet hands.
67Cup
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I don't think anybody said his speed, or hypothetical lack thereof, would keep him from making the NHL. I can recall a couple of the usual anti Leaf suspects on the main boards implying that he didn't have the speed to be a star or a franchise level player. So far, it looks as if they may just be wrong!
The Kessel Run
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Is that THE Rocky Thompson? Who used to chuck knocks for the Saint John Flames?
DarkKnight
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Cite me one pro who said that, not someone in their pajamas
Hey, I don't wear pants at home.
Cite me one pro who said that, not someone in their pajamas
Hey man pros wear pajamas too!
TheDoldrums
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...some of the earlier posts in this thread. I made that comment a month and a half ago.
"At this rate he won't even get signed."
Coaches Coroner
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Same. I definitely recall at least some people criticizing him as not having a good top speed.
Wafflewhipper
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There is a reason he was picked 61st overall. Obviously not every team (including Leafs) were sold on his NHL potential.
Like all other ELCs...we'll see. You think he is at least two years away from seeing the NHL...if at all.
Like all other ELCs...we'll see. You think he is at least two years away from seeing the NHL...if at all.
I think he is a good player but I don't see him being a Leaf. With all due respect, we already have Mariner and Nylander and have that smaller forward with skill presence on the team. I see Bracco being packaged with something else to bring another second pairing young dman.
