Jere Lehtinen's HHOF Chances?

Will Jere Lehtinen Be Inducted?

  • Yes... without a doubt

  • No, he belongs in the HHVG

  • Maybe... depends on how many more weak inductees make it


Results are only viewable after voting.

hypereconomist

Registered User
Mar 10, 2019
299
273
Now that Carbonneau is in the HHOF, has Jere Lehtinen's chances of making the HHOF changed at all?

Lehtinen's Selke record: 1-1-1-2-3-3-6-6-10
Carbonneau's Selke record: 1-1-1-2-2-3-4-4-5-9

He had the higher peak, but not as much longevity as Carbo
Similar career playoff scoring numbers: 0.40 (Carbo) vs 0.45 (Lehtinen)

Key player in the Star's 98-99 cup win with the second highest ATOI amongst Stars forwards, not unlike Carbonneau's impact on the Canadian's 85-86 cup win

Impressive international record as well with 24 pts in 30gp in best-on-best tournys during his prime ('96 WCup, '04 WCup, '98 OG, '02 OG, and '06 OG). He was also a key player in helping the underdog Fins win two OG bronzes, one OG silver, and one WCup silver in best-on-best action.

Will he be inducted?
 

Pominville Knows

Registered User
Sep 28, 2012
4,477
333
Down Under
He should be in by the same but reversed bar Housley got in through. He was better actually.
Defense might not be as sexy, but on the other end so few of these forwards is in so that might mean he'll definetely be in sooner or later.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,347
16,638
Mulberry Street
3 months ago I would have said no but now that Carbonneau is in..... its hard to leave him out. Especially since he managed to win 3 Selke's as a winger.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,130
6,428
Lehtinen's name will be on the Selke trophy three times forever!

Is there ANY other reason to induct him?

Did he captain a team? Did he ever win any other individual awards? Did he EVER finish top 10 in goals? Top 10 in assists? Did he win multiple cups? Or ever be top 3 or 4 in playoff scoring? No, no, no, no, no, no, to these last six questions.

He won 3 Selkes and 1 Stanley Cup over a 6-year stretch. He represented his country internationally, finishing 7th in team scoring in a Silver at the Olympics.

Am I missing something?
 
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solidmotion

Registered User
Jun 5, 2012
612
295
Lehtinen's name will be on the Selke trophy three times forever!

Is there ANY other reason to induct him?

Did he captain a team? Did he ever win any other individual awards? Did he EVER finish top 10 in goals? Top 10 in assists? Did he win multiple cups? Or ever be top 3 or 4 in playoff scoring? No, no, no, no, no, no, to these last six questions.

He won 3 Selkes and 1 Stanley Cup over a 6-year stretch. He represented his country internationally, finishing 7th in team scoring in a Silver at the Olympics.

Am I missing something?

Welcome to the post-Carbo Hall of Fame arguments.

there's your answer

basically carbonneau's edge over lehtinen, per your criteria, is a few years as montreal's captain, including 1993 when they won the cup. obviously at no point prior to 2019 did that get him into the hall of fame. and yet here we are.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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No.

Carbo was a significantly better and bigger star than Lehtinen.
  • Carbo was better defensively (though how much is arguable - 3 more times top 5 in Selke voting).
  • Carbo was top-3 in Stanley championship team goal scoring whereas Lehtinen wasn't top 6 in even points.
  • Carbo won 3 cups to Lehtinen's 1, CAPTAINING the team to the championship!
  • Carbo played in 5 more seasons and more than DOUBLE the number of playoff games.
Lehtinen is a poor man's Carbo.

It's ridiculous to think Lehtinen equals or surpasses Carbo in any significant way worthy of inducting him simply because Carbo was inducted. It's as absurd as saying that Owen Nolan needs inducting just because Mark Recchi was (there was a whole friggin' thread on that on the Sharks board).
 
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solidmotion

Registered User
Jun 5, 2012
612
295
No.

Carbo was a significantly better and bigger star than Lehtinen.
  • Carbo was better defensively (though how much is arguable - 3 more times top 5 in Selke voting).
  • Carbo was top-3 in Stanley championship team goal scoring whereas Lehtinen wasn't top 6 in even points.
  • Carbo won 3 cups to Lehtinen's 1, CAPTAINING the team to the championship!
  • Carbo played in 5 more seasons and more than DOUBLE the number of playoff games.
Lehtinen is a poor man's Carbo.

It's ridiculous to think Lehtinen equals or surpasses Carbo in any significant way worthy of inducting him simply because Carbo was inducted. It's as absurd as saying that Owen Nolan needs inducting just because Mark Recchi was (there was a whole friggin' thread on that on the Sharks board).
all of that may well be true. the point is that it put carbonneau nowhere near most people's hall of fame radars prior to his induction. and on the merits lehtinen is not that far behind. (think you might be underestimating lehtinen's star power/profile in the DPE also—best defensive forward on the best or second-best defensive team in a defence-first era. in the stronger conference, too.) i just wouldn't be surprised if lehtinen were to make it in a weak year in the next decade.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
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Regina, SK
No.

Carbo was a significantly better and bigger star than Lehtinen.
  • Carbo was better defensively (though how much is arguable - 3 more times top 5 in Selke voting).
  • Carbo was top-3 in Stanley championship team goal scoring whereas Lehtinen wasn't top 6 in even points.
  • Carbo won 3 cups to Lehtinen's 1, CAPTAINING the team to the championship!
  • Carbo played in 5 more seasons and more than DOUBLE the number of playoff games.
Lehtinen is a poor man's Carbo.

It's ridiculous to think Lehtinen equals or surpasses Carbo in any significant way worthy of inducting him simply because Carbo was inducted. It's as absurd as saying that Owen Nolan needs inducting just because Mark Recchi was (there was a whole friggin' thread on that on the Sharks board).

Yeah. This is closer than, say, Dave Poulin, who was mentioned the other day and I pointed out how he was a poor man's Carbo, but still, not enough meat there for the HHOF.

Still, if we're inducting pure defense forwards now he's pretty near the top of the list for who should go next. (tops would be Ramsay, IMO)
 

JianYang

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
17,753
16,107
Yeah. This is closer than, say, Dave Poulin, who was mentioned the other day and I pointed out how he was a poor man's Carbo, but still, not enough meat there for the HHOF.

Still, if we're inducting pure defense forwards now he's pretty near the top of the list for who should go next. (tops would be Ramsay, IMO)

That Dave poulin topic was more about what could have been, rather than saying he was a hall of famer.

Now, as far as carbo goes, was he not the one who popularized, and mastered the shot blocking technique, where he would lay on the ice and have the shot hit his shin pads, and deflect the puck out of danger?

You don't see it done that way anymore, but it was something we saw frequently up until a few years ago.
 

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,860
2,233
No.

Carbo was a significantly better and bigger star than Lehtinen.
  • Carbo was better defensively (though how much is arguable - 3 more times top 5 in Selke voting).
  • Carbo was top-3 in Stanley championship team goal scoring whereas Lehtinen wasn't top 6 in even points.
  • Carbo won 3 cups to Lehtinen's 1, CAPTAINING the team to the championship!
  • Carbo played in 5 more seasons and more than DOUBLE the number of playoff games.
Lehtinen is a poor man's Carbo.

It's ridiculous to think Lehtinen equals or surpasses Carbo in any significant way worthy of inducting him simply because Carbo was inducted. It's as absurd as saying that Owen Nolan needs inducting just because Mark Recchi was (there was a whole friggin' thread on that on the Sharks board).

Wait. Lehtinen was top-3 in goal scoring the year Stars won the cup.
 

Albatros

Registered User
Aug 19, 2017
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Lehtinen has a better case than several fairly recent guys to get in, if that wasn't so I'd say no but as things are it has to be yes.
 

Staniowski

Registered User
Jan 13, 2018
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The Maritimes
I think it's unlikely Lehtinen will be inducted, but he does have a chance.

He was a fairly talented player, often playing on the top line both in the NHL and in B-on-B for Team Finland.

Obviously his Selke record is key for him, given that his offensive numbers in the NHL aren't that high.

Good team success with the Stars and Finland.

Great reputation.

His play for Finland was really good.
'96 - 6th in team scoring
'98 - 3rd in team scoring, Finland 3rd
'02 - 1st in team scoring
'04 - 2nd in team scoring, Finland 2nd
'06 - 4th in team scoring, Finland 2nd
 
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Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,860
2,233
Inducting Lehtinen because Carbonneau would be like inducting Kevin Stevens because Clark Gillies.

No I dont think so. Lehtinen and Carbo are both far above Stevens and Gillies when it comes to defensive play. And the difference between the first two is much smaller than the latter.

If HoF is opening up to induct defensive forwards then Lehtinen certainly wont be a bad inductee. I doubt its about defensive recognition though and more about Carbo having connections and being well liked.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,417
Vancouver, BC
No I dont think so. Lehtinen and Carbo are both far above Stevens and Gillies when it comes to defensive play. And the difference between the first two is much smaller than the latter.

If HoF is opening up to induct defensive forwards then Lehtinen certainly wont be a bad inductee. I doubt its about defensive recognition though and more about Carbo having connections and being well liked.

Lehtinen is a marginally worse version of an already fringe/poor induction in Carbonneau just like Stevens would be a marginally worse version of an already fringe/poor induction in Gillies.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,417
Vancouver, BC
Worse as in not Canadian?

Worse as in he was a top player for a shorter period of time, won fewer Cups and wasn't a Cup-winning captain, and has a worse playoff record.

Peak Carbonneau and Lehtinen were comparable but Carbonneau's career was fleshed out a lot more fully than the injury-prone Lehtinen's was.
 
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Albatros

Registered User
Aug 19, 2017
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Worse as in he was a top player for a shorter period of time, won fewer Cups and wasn't a Cup-winning captain, and has a worse playoff record.

International success counts for less than winning a cup as a passenger? Not to mention Lehtinen was much better offensively, by a country mile. Carbonneau has the longevity and perhaps captainship for one title, but little else over him.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,131
Regina, SK
Wait. Lehtinen was top-3 in goal scoring the year Stars won the cup.

It was typical VI stat smoke-and-mirrors. I saw it, too.

Carbo was top-3 in goals (tied for 3rd) and 5th in points on the 1986 Habs. Lehtinen wasn't even top-6 in points (he actually was, he was tied for 5th, and was tied for 2nd in goals).

It's a really strange way to spin these two players making nearly identical offensive contributions to stanley cup winners.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,144
The best way to look at this is what were you saying about a player before he got inducted into the HHOF? With Lehtinen this is where we are at right now. With Carbonneau my thought was that no I don't put him in, but after Gainey he would be the next guy in the HHOF based on the defensive forward standard. After he is in I still say the same thing, he wouldn't have been my pick.

With Lehtinen at least he gets mentioned here. It wasn't like Dick Duff prior to 2006. I had a lot of HHOF discussions and I never remember Duff's name coming up a single time. Not once. There are a few posters who defend his induction and yet prior to him getting in there was crickets about him. Now that's an honest look at it at least, but I will say with Lehtinen at least there is a minority that would put him in.

I wouldn't though. Very good defensive forward, Selke winner three times, won a Cup on a very good team where he is maybe the 6th most important piece. Not bad, but great? No, sorry.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
22,246
10,125
3 months ago I would have said no but now that Carbonneau is in..... its hard to leave him out. Especially since he managed to win 3 Selke's as a winger.

I agree with this but truth be told neither he or Carbonneau deserve to be in the HHOF.

That's the brutal honest truth.
 

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