Confirmed with Link: Jensen + 5th to WAS for Madison Bowey + 2020 2nd

SuperScript29

Registered User
Nov 17, 2017
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By the looks of it, Caps fans on this board are loving Jensen and are already saying that he'll likely move into their top-4 with such play. Then again they just beat the Sens, so maybe their breaths need to be held a little longer.
 

Ovie's Neighbor

Registered User
Jan 23, 2007
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I watched a lot of that game last night and Bowey played like that for us all year. He would show flashes of good skill and skating but then have these atrocious turnovers. His problem has always been his decision making and not his skill. So if the wings can work to develop that part of this game he can turn into an NHL quality defensemen. I will be rooting for him to succeed.
 
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Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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Oh dear god.

Ffs, can we please stop acting surprised that’s Bowey is an unpolished reclamation project? We knew Jensen’s value was around a second, and we included a fifth...where do you think the added fifth comes into play?

We’re talking about a player with 5 fewer years of high level hockey than Jensen. A player who has 85 career games, averaging under 14 minutes at a high minute position. (The Wings lowest average TOI by defenders, excluding Witkowski, is Joe Hicketts who had over 17 minutes.) A player who just played his first career game with Detroit after being with the franchise for what, 3 days?

I’m holding out on making a judgement about his current play for a while, and we should all be expected this to be a work in progress to see if we can develop him at all in the offseason and along next season.

Spare me the “OMG world is over” reaction.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
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Ffs, can we please stop acting surprised that’s Bowey is an unpolished reclamation project? We knew Jensen’s value was around a second, and we included a fifth...where do you think the added fifth comes into play?

We’re talking about a player with 5 fewer years of high level hockey than Jensen. A player who has 85 career games, averaging under 14 minutes at a high minute position. (The Wings lowest average TOI by defenders, excluding Witkowski, is Joe Hicketts who had over 17 minutes.) A player who just played his first career game with Detroit after being with the franchise for what, 3 days?

I’m holding out on making a judgement about his current play for a while, and we should all be expected this to be a work in progress to see if we can develop him at all in the offseason and along next season.

Spare me the “OMG world is over” reaction.
It might have been the worst game I have ever seen from a player. To hear that it is typical of his play is quite alarming and also throws that "3 days with the team" thing out the window.

Also, the "we knew Jensen was going for a 2nd so Bowey = 5th" thing is just making things up until we hear a team say it.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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It might have been the worst game I have ever seen from a player. To hear that it is typical of his play is quite alarming and also throws that "3 days with the team" thing out the window.

Also, the "we knew Jensen was going for a 2nd so Bowey = 5th" thing is just making things up until we hear a team say it.

You're right, Bowey was probably worth more like a 4th and Jensen was worth more than a second. I'm just speaking based on what has been reported. For the most part, everyone is looking at the 2nd as the main return for Jensen. Bowey and the 5th are likely different values but are both just throw ins to balance out the trade.

And there is not a chance in hell that is the worst game you have ever seen from a player. He wasn't even the worst player on the team last night. You're just overreacting and embellishing just to have something to complain about.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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Ffs, can we please stop acting surprised that’s Bowey is an unpolished reclamation project? We knew Jensen’s value was around a second, and we included a fifth...where do you think the added fifth comes into play?

We’re talking about a player with 5 fewer years of high level hockey than Jensen. A player who has 85 career games, averaging under 14 minutes at a high minute position. (The Wings lowest average TOI by defenders, excluding Witkowski, is Joe Hicketts who had over 17 minutes.) A player who just played his first career game with Detroit after being with the franchise for what, 3 days?

I’m holding out on making a judgement about his current play for a while, and we should all be expected this to be a work in progress to see if we can develop him at all in the offseason and along next season.

Spare me the “OMG world is over” reaction.

He's not a reclamation project, he's a career AHLer pushed into service because of how shallow Detroit's defense core is.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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He's not a reclamation project, he's a career AHLer pushed into service because of how shallow Detroit's defense core is.

Holy shit the lengths you go to discredit literally every single person in this franchise is mind boggling. You don't support anyone or anything that has to do with the Detroit Red Wings. Everything is doom and gloom, 24/7.

He's 23 years old with a single season of NHL experience. He was not getting the chance to develop in Washington because they don't have the flexibility in their timeline to do so. Detroit has the time, they have the roster space. He is literally the definition of change of scenery, reclamation candidate in professional sports.
 

Laser Rayzor

Cautiously Optimistic
Dec 8, 2012
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...until he took a stupid series-turning penalty...

Or he made a terrible play that directly leads to a goal. I still remember that Hawks series in 2013 where he let Sharp walk in and score in game 6. It was one of their last competitive playoff series and the bonehead definitely played a role in them losing.

After holding out hope with Kindl and Smith I don't have a lot of faith Bowey will put it all together but I'll be pleasantly surprised if he does. Maybe third time's a charm :laugh:
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,254
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Holy **** the lengths you go to discredit literally every single person in this franchise is mind boggling. You don't support anyone or anything that has to do with the Detroit Red Wings. Everything is doom and gloom, 24/7.

He's 23 years old with a single season of NHL experience. He was not getting the chance to develop in Washington because they don't have the flexibility in their timeline to do so. Detroit has the time, they have the roster space. He is literally the definition of change of scenery, reclamation candidate in professional sports.

Because I watch the caps and saw him play. He’s a guy who has a lot of intriguing tools but doesn’t appear to have a tool box. And he has 4 years at the professional level. He shouldn’t be making the mistakes he makes at the pro level. Ask any cap fan. They will tell you that he is a turnover machine, and doesn’t make good decisions with the puck in general. A change of scenery doesn’t flip a switch to allow a player to be able to become something he’s not. And Bowey isn’t some great player that couldn’t get a fair shake. He was a guy who couldn’t even put it together playing sheltered minutes on a deep team. There’s no reason to believe he will on this dumpster fire.

As for your personal attack, if you’ve read any of my posts I’ve been very positive about Larkin, defended Mantha before he got hot, and have become a big fan of little Bert. I even have praised AAs progress this season becoming more consistent and engaged.
 

TheMule93

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May 26, 2015
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Holy **** the lengths you go to discredit literally every single person in this franchise is mind boggling. You don't support anyone or anything that has to do with the Detroit Red Wings. Everything is doom and gloom, 24/7.

nah, he has a major hard on for Zadina. Get ready for him to come up with every excuse possible for Zadina whenever he has a bad game. "stuck on a bad line" "no quality teammates" "not enough ice time" etc

its a big change of pace from his usual irrational hatred of most red wings players, no doubt. Its still going to be an irrational devotion to Zadian though. I guess thats less annoying than the other way?
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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nah, he has a major hard on for Zadina. Get ready for him to come up with every excuse possible for Zadina whenever he has a bad game. "stuck on a bad line" "no quality teammates" "not enough ice time" etc

its a big change of pace from his usual irrational hatred of most red wings players, no doubt. Its still going to be an irrational devotion to Zadian though. I guess thats less annoying than the other way?

I’m 90% sure he missed on a shot last night because you personally put a voodoo curse on him.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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nah, he has a major hard on for Zadina. Get ready for him to come up with every excuse possible for Zadina whenever he has a bad game. "stuck on a bad line" "no quality teammates" "not enough ice time" etc

its a big change of pace from his usual irrational hatred of most red wings players, no doubt. Its still going to be an irrational devotion to Zadian though. I guess thats less annoying than the other way?

I wouldn't call being excited about the highest pick the Wings have had in a generation irrational. And, I am very pro-Mantha, Larkin, little Bert, and have been happy seeing AA playing more consistently this season.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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Because I watch the caps and saw him play. He’s a guy who has a lot of intriguing tools but doesn’t appear to have a tool box. And he has 4 years at the professional level. He shouldn’t be making the mistakes he makes at the pro level. Ask any cap fan. They will tell you that he is a turnover machine, and doesn’t make good decisions with the puck in general. A change of scenery doesn’t flip a switch to allow a player to be able to become something he’s not. And Bowey isn’t some great player that couldn’t get a fair shake. He was a guy who couldn’t even put it together playing sheltered minutes on a deep team. There’s no reason to believe he will on this dumpster fire.

Not going to derail the thread over my observation of how you tend to be more skeptical/demanding than most.

Specifically on your points related to Bowey, he literally is a person that couldn't get a fair shake. Playing sheltered minutes implies that the minutes he is playing are under circumstances that gives him a higher chance at success, or hide a missing aspect of his game; that's not what the Caps were doing with him. Sheltered minutes does not mean the same thing as limiting his minutes. They limited minutes because he wasn't the same level of player as the rest of their defense, and they could not risk him making mistakes as he learned on the job.

Nobody is saying that the change of scenery will change what he is, but it will give him the opportunity to potentially improve what he is. And I emphasize the word potentially. You say 4 years at the professional level as an attempt at disguising that he has played 3 years in the AHL. The AHL is not and will not ever be the same learning experience for a defenseman. Look at the career arc of Zdeno Chara; over the ages 20-23 with the Islanders he had 231 games, 6 goals, 23 assists, and was minus-61. He was then traded to Ottawa; can you tell me what is Chara's legacy now? Ryan Ellis bounced between the NHL and AHL for two years, in those years he managed 64 games, 5 goals, and 12 assists. He broke in full time in the NHL at 23, and has gotten better in each passing year. Niklas Kronwall, 3 years of hockey split between the NHL and AHL, managed to play in 47 games logging 2 goals and 12 assists; I don't need to tell you what he developed into.

The point being, 23 years old and not having the chance to establish and develop in the NHL is not a death sentence. It has happened to some very good players. The change of scenery is a real thing for Bowey because he is going from an organization that was going to continue not giving him the opportunity to play, to a team that can afford the opportunity to play and develop, regardless of how it turns out.

He could turn out to be a complete and utter waste, and if he does, so be it. But stop pretending like he has been given every opportunity to become a better player and his NHL career should be done.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
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Because I watch the caps and saw him play. He’s a guy who has a lot of intriguing tools but doesn’t appear to have a tool box. And he has 4 years at the professional level. He shouldn’t be making the mistakes he makes at the pro level. Ask any cap fan. They will tell you that he is a turnover machine, and doesn’t make good decisions with the puck in general. A change of scenery doesn’t flip a switch to allow a player to be able to become something he’s not. And Bowey isn’t some great player that couldn’t get a fair shake. He was a guy who couldn’t even put it together playing sheltered minutes on a deep team. There’s no reason to believe he will on this dumpster fire.

As for your personal attack, if you’ve read any of my posts I’ve been very positive about Larkin, defended Mantha before he got hot, and have become a big fan of little Bert. I even have praised AAs progress this season becoming more consistent and engaged.

Yeah in those 33 games (I'm sure you didnt watch every game) where he was playing 14 mins a game at the age of 22/23 I'm sure you not only watched enough of him but also focused on his game to get a really good read on his game and what he'll be like in 2 or 3 years. I know when I watch Washington I really tried to keep my eyes peeled for Bowey and those 15 shifts a game, who would want to watch OV, Backstrom, Carlson or Kuznetsov...
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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I think a lot of us are kinda down this season. Been a rough year. We should all probably be a bit more cognizant of that.

Since no one asked, here's my take on Bowey. He's probably never going to eliminate the stupid from his game. the hope is that he lessens it a bit, and that the rest of his game evolves to where the stupid thing he does is worth it because he brings enough of other things. By most accounts he has some puck skills. He has good size that he's not afraid of using. If he can become a ~25ish point 3rd pair/2nd PP QB type guy who takes the body and blocks some shots...that's probably worth the occasional screw up. It's a bit of a throw of the dice that he gets there, but that's got to be the hope and that's why he was a toss in on a Jensen trade rather than a significant piece of something bigger.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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I think a lot of us are kinda down this season. Been a rough year. We should all probably be a bit more cognizant of that.

Since no one asked, here's my take on Bowey. He's probably never going to eliminate the stupid from his game. the hope is that he lessens it a bit, and that the rest of his game evolves to where the stupid thing he does is worth it because he brings enough of other things. By most accounts he has some puck skills. He has good size that he's not afraid of using. If he can become a ~25ish point 3rd pair/2nd PP QB type guy who takes the body and blocks some shots...that's probably worth the occasional screw up. It's a bit of a throw of the dice that he gets there, but that's got to be the hope and that's why he was a toss in on a Jensen trade rather than a significant piece of something bigger.

To be quite honest, whatever they did with Jensen would probably work tremendously with Bowey. Jensen has always been a defenseman with decent tools, but from the reports around the deadline, he really blew up this year when the coaching staff worked with him on simplifying the game. If you can take Bowey and get him on a simple, personal game plan, maybe you find a way to section off the part of his game where the stupid lives and essentially remove it from what he's trying to do. He already has more tools than Jensen had, if you get him to do the same things that Jensen did, maybe you salvage his career as a bottom pairing defenseman who might slot up if needed.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,254
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Boston, MA
Yeah in those 33 games (I'm sure you didnt watch every game) where he was playing 14 mins a game at the age of 22/23 I'm sure you not only watched enough of him but also focused on his game to get a really good read on his game and what he'll be like in 2 or 3 years. I know when I watch Washington I really tried to keep my eyes peeled for Bowey and those 15 shifts a game, who would want to watch OV, Backstrom, Carlson or Kuznetsov...

My live in girlfriend is from Maryland, and loves the caps. I love her. She gets to watch the caps on the TV. I have watched WAAAY more caps than I want.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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My live in girlfriend is from Maryland, and loves the caps. I love her. She gets to watch the caps on the TV. I have watched WAAAY more caps than I want.

I've watched tape on Bowey in Capitals. He was more tentative and toned down (short leash, and probably deathly afraid to make a mistake....which you and I both know is how you make more blundering mistakes!). He hardly ever had 3 SOG and was usually under 14 minutes.

His first game w/Detroit last night was the 3rd most ice time he's ever had in his new NHL career. He also had 3 decent SOG. One hit a leg and hurt a player, the other was a bullet into a sliding Price's stomach. Bowey is officially our strongest (strength) dman. Everyone else, aside from Kronwall, play like cream puffs. And Jensen, when he was here, led the charge is pure utter softness.

But I agree with you, Bowey, Mantha and Bertuzzi all have room for improvement.
 

Jon Cusack

Registered User
Oct 28, 2011
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Bowey's debut matched his career with the Capitals. Hopefully he's just filler for the rest of the year and we can move on to better things.
 

Goalie guy

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Jul 8, 2011
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I've watched tape on Bowey in Capitals. He was more tentative and toned down (short leash, and probably deathly afraid to make a mistake....which you and I both know is how you make more blundering mistakes!). He hardly ever had 3 SOG and was usually under 14 minutes.

His first game w/Detroit last night was the 3rd most ice time he's ever had in his new NHL career. He also had 3 decent SOG. One hit a leg and hurt a player, the other was a bullet into a sliding Price's stomach. Bowey is officially our strongest (strength) dman. Everyone else, aside from Kronwall, play like cream puffs. And Jensen, when he was here, led the charge is pure utter softness.

But I agree with you, Bowey, Mantha and Bertuzzi all have room for improvement.
Little Bert is the 2nd best forward on the team! What else do you want out of him? Mantha yes can do better for sure. And sorry but Jensen was the best Dman on the team all year long. If you are wanting a core full of old school Kronwall it will never happen, the softest D we have is DK by a long shot, hell Cholo and Hronek are stronger than him all ready.
 

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