Value of: Jeff Skinners next contract

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
If crediting Eichel is weak, what does that say of you blaming Derek Ryan for his limits in Carolina?

I dont see any number of posts leading to us seeing eye to eye, so I will agree to disagree. If you are happy with your team signing him at 9, who am I to judge.... I just do not want my team to.

I hope he proves me wrong.

It’s weak because most teams have a top tier center to play with him...

I don’t WANT my team to pay 9 million per, I certainly would prefer less... but the market is the market. And a 40 goal 26 year old isn’t settling for 55 point money.

I’m not positive, but how many teams get better by letting top tier talent go?

And there’s a big difference between a cap that forces you to let big time talent go (Chicago/Panarin), and being a team that fears the cap and lets talent go before the cap forces it.

He scored another tonight...
 

NHL WAR

Registered User
Sep 29, 2018
959
1,176
I don’t WANT my team to pay 9 million per, I certainly would prefer less... but the market is the market.

I’m not positive, but how many teams get better by letting top tier talent go?

My last comment.... you say the market dictates 9 mill, but here are the forwards with a cap hit above 8:

PLAYERTEAMAGEPOSCAP HIT
1. Connor McDavidEDM21C$12,500,000
2. John TavaresTOR27C$11,000,000
3. Patrick KaneCHI29RW, C$10,500,000
4. Jonathan ToewsCHI30C$10,500,000
5. Anze KopitarLAK30C$10,000,000
6. Jack EichelBUF21C$10,000,000
7. Alex OvechkinWSH32LW, RW$9,538,462
8. Evgeni MalkinPIT31C$9,500,000
9. Jamie BennDAL28LW$9,500,000
10. Sidney CrosbyPIT30C$8,700,000
11. Corey PerryANA33RW$8,625,000
12. Steven StamkosTBL28C$8,500,000
13. Leon DraisaitlEDM22C, RW$8,500,000
14. Claude GirouxPHI30C, RW$8,275,000
15. Ryan GetzlafANA33C$8,250,000
16. Jakub VoracekPHI28RW$8,250,000
17. Phil KesselPIT30RW$8,000,000
18. Ryan JohansenNSH25C, RW$8,000,000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


You could make a very good argument that he only compares favourably to one of those players .... Skinner at 9 isn't the current market, but it probably would create a new, bloated market.

I can think of a better, top tier player having an even hotter start than Skinner who was also let go for quarters on the dollar this summer......please do not tell me he is the reason St.Louis is struggling and Buffalo is rising.

In conclusion, good player, good fit on Buffalo, but a good contract would begin with a 7.
 

mflo77

Registered User
Jul 9, 2002
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I don't think you understand how the current market in the NHL works if you think he's only going to get 6.5 per year...

i hope the sabres know the current NHL market that you believe it is and give JEFF SKINNER 9-10 million per........
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
My last comment.... you say the market dictates 9 mill, but here are the forwards with a cap hit above 8:

PLAYERTEAMAGEPOSCAP HIT
1. Connor McDavidEDM21C$12,500,000
2. John TavaresTOR27C$11,000,000
3. Patrick KaneCHI29RW, C$10,500,000
4. Jonathan ToewsCHI30C$10,500,000
5. Anze KopitarLAK30C$10,000,000
6. Jack EichelBUF21C$10,000,000
7. Alex OvechkinWSH32LW, RW$9,538,462
8. Evgeni MalkinPIT31C$9,500,000
9. Jamie BennDAL28LW$9,500,000
10. Sidney CrosbyPIT30C$8,700,000
11. Corey PerryANA33RW$8,625,000
12. Steven StamkosTBL28C$8,500,000
13. Leon DraisaitlEDM22C, RW$8,500,000
14. Claude GirouxPHI30C, RW$8,275,000
15. Ryan GetzlafANA33C$8,250,000
16. Jakub VoracekPHI28RW$8,250,000
17. Phil KesselPIT30RW$8,000,000
18. Ryan JohansenNSH25C, RW$8,000,000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You could make a very good argument that he only compares favourably to one of those players .... Skinner at 9 isn't the current market, but it probably would create a new, bloated market.

I can think of a better, top tier player having an even hotter start than Skinner who was also let go for quarters on the dollar this summer......please do not tell me he is the reason St.Louis is struggling and Buffalo is rising.

In conclusion, good player, good fit on Buffalo, but a good contract would begin with a 7.

You should look at the % of the cap those contracts took up when they were signed. Rising cap, rising player caps.

You should also consider which of those contract bought RFA years and how many. It makes a big difference.

Your view is too simplistic. For example, Kessel’s 8.0 per was 12% of the cap at the time. 12% of today’s cap is 9.5.

Those Kane and Toews contracts were over 15% of the cap at the time... that would rate would be over 12 million per today.

Pointing to a bunch of players who were over the 8-10 million mark years ago is a pointless endeavor.
 
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Sabres

Registered User
Jan 15, 2017
339
193
Buffalo, NY
You should look at the % of the cap those contracts took up when they were signed. Rising cap, rising player caps.

You should also consider which of those contract bought RFA years and how many. It makes a big difference.

Your view is too simplistic. For example, Kessel’s 8.0 per was 12% of the cap at the time. 12% of today’s cap is 9.5.

Those Kane and Toews contracts were over 15% of the cap at the time... that would rate would be over 12 million per today.

Pointing to a bunch of players who were over the 8-10 million mark years ago is a pointless endeavor.

Many posters unfortunately do not understand how these things work and think he'll come in at less than Evander Kane... :confused:
 

NHL WAR

Registered User
Sep 29, 2018
959
1,176
You should look at the % of the cap those contracts took up when they were signed. Rising cap, rising player caps.

You should also consider which of those contract bought RFA years and how many. It makes a big difference.

Your view is too simplistic. For example, Kessel’s 8.0 per was 12% of the cap at the time. 12% of today’s cap is 9.5.

Those Kane and Toews contracts were over 15% of the cap at the time... that would rate would be over 12 million per today.

Pointing to a bunch of players who were over the 8-10 million mark years ago is a pointless endeavor.


You Jeff Skinner's agent? My very first post listed 6 recent contracts: Kane, JVR, Pacioretty, Wheeler, Kucherov, Seguin. I said Skinner should slot in a bit above the first 3 and definitely below the last 3. There is no argument to be made right now that Skinner gets 9+ million next summer. If he gets 100 points or the cap goes up drastically, we can talk. Until then, as I have said, please agree to disagree. Continuing this dispute is a pointless endeavor.
 
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Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
You Jeff Skinner's agent?

No, but I do try to think like one in these types of contract conversations


My very first post listed 6 recent contracts: Kane, JVR, Pacioretty, Wheeler, Kucherov, Seguin. I said Skinner should slot in a bit above the first 3 and definitely below the last 3.

And I'll continue to view that as a far too simplistic approach. We've already discussed how the "slotting" approach ignores important differentiating factors like age, current contract status, etc.

Another factor you are missing, that is much bigger than people realize... is state taxes. Seguin and Kucherov signed contracts in states with no state income tax. Florida and Texas are the only two NHL states without it. So basically, Kucherov's 9.5 is effectively 10.5 - 11.5 on any other team. Same for Seguin and Benn.


There is no argument to be made right now that Skinner gets 9+ million next summer.

There are many arguments... if you're willing to listen to them

If he gets 100 points or the cap goes up drastically, we can talk. Until then, as I have said, please agree to disagree. Continuing this dispute is a pointless endeavor.

If he got 100 points we'd be talking 11-12 million per...

I agree, there is a pointlessness to trying to expand the conversation beyond "contract slotting". Some people don't get it.
 

threeVo

Registered User
Jan 5, 2010
3,783
1,665
Tampa
Stop looking at AAVs and start looking at % of cap when contract was signed. The dollar amount means nothing to agents or teams. Cap increases are why some players signing recently are "overpaid" in relation to deals signed 4 years ago.
 

NHL WAR

Registered User
Sep 29, 2018
959
1,176
Stop looking at AAVs and start looking at % of cap when contract was signed. The dollar amount means nothing to agents or teams. Cap increases are why some players signing recently are "overpaid" in relation to deals signed 4 years ago.


I have said twice that my comparables are Kane, Jvr, Pacioretty, Wheeler, Kucherov and Seguin. They all signed their deals THIS year. I merely listed the top forward cap hits to try and figure out which comparable dictated the market being 9 mill for Skinner. You can argue lower taxes and better climates for Kuch and Seguin, but Wheeler only got 8.25 in Winnipeg! Yes, I know he is in his thirties.
 

bleedgreen

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Dec 8, 2003
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colorado
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Probably 7-8. The player won’t want to leave and will play ball a bit. That’s how he got to Buffalo in the first place people. He’ll get paid but probably won’t go over 8.
 
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Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,810
2,316
Jeremy white reporting Sabres and Skinner 750k - 1 million apart, closing in a deal 8 - 9 mil x 8 yrs
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,810
2,316
Guessing 8.5/8.7 x 8 for skinny. Production should be there for 6 seasons minimum. Front load with bonus money imo. But, they are close to a deal and that is good for Buffalo.
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,218
17,639
North Carolina
As a Canes fan, I loved Jeff Skinner and hated to see him go in one sense, but knew it was time in another.

Jeff Skinner is apparently a great teammate and he's very approachable. That said, he is the epitome of the one-dimensional hockey player. He scores goals.

Interestingly enough, a couple of seasons ago, he really put the effort in on the defensive side of the puck and was solid at worst and pretty good at best. The problem is he's really only truly interested in the offensive part of the game.

So whatever he gets, you're paying for goals....not assists, not back checking....just goals.
 
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Hasekperreault23

Registered User
Nov 23, 2018
2,080
906
As a Canes fan, I loved Jess Skinner and hated to see him go in one sense, but knew it was time in another.

Jeff Skinner is apparently a great teammate and he's very approachable. That said, he is the epitome of the one-dimensional hockey player. He scores goals.

Interestingly enough, a couple of seasons ago, he really put the effort in on the defensive side of the puck and was solid at worst and pretty good at best. The problem is he's really only truly interested in the offensive part of the game.

So whatever he gets, you're paying for goals....not assists, not back checking....just goals.
Correct and we need goals
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
18,786
14,617
Toronto, ON
Time to re-evaluate a bit. This will become eminently more clear once he signs but the Canes traded 1 year of Skinner for 2nd + 3rd + 6th + Cliff Pu/Tomas Jurco.

That's not a good return in a vacuum but here is the context behind it...

1. He only wanted to go to Toronto or Buffalo. Toronto had no space for him so essentially there was one destination.

2. With the way the season went, Buffalo was not in a position to be 'rental' buyers at the deadline. Skinner still would have had his NMC in place and we have now seen that he did not intend to waive to go to a random playoff team.

So, with hindsight being 20/20 the Canes could have kept Skinner for this year and he would walk for nothing in the offseason or get a 2nd + 3rd + 6th + Cliff Pu/Tomas Jurco.

Now Buffalo is left with the decision to sign him to a massive, potentially terrible long term contract or let him walk for nothing and they got 1 very good offensive season of Skinner. However it looks like they are relatively close to re-signing him. They have cap space so why not I guess.
 

hyduK

Registered User
Feb 21, 2009
2,593
584
As a Canes fan, I loved Jess Skinner and hated to see him go in one sense, but knew it was time in another.

Jeff Skinner is apparently a great teammate and he's very approachable. That said, he is the epitome of the one-dimensional hockey player. He scores goals.

Interestingly enough, a couple of seasons ago, he really put the effort in on the defensive side of the puck and was solid at worst and pretty good at best. The problem is he's really only truly interested in the offensive part of the game.

So whatever he gets, you're paying for goals....not assists, not back checking....just goals.
Good thing for Skinner is that his one dimension happens to be the most important dimension in hockey.
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,810
2,316
As a Leaf/Canes fan who has watched how inconsistent Skinner is year to year, I really hope from my Leafs fan POV they sign him to this deal.
Heading for 40 this season with Eichel centering, in his prime. He's never had a center like this, I'll wait to year 3 or 4 to re-assess but as of now that's a fair deal for the production.
 

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