Value of: Jeff Skinners next contract

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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Who exactly were they suppose to ice him with?

That's like saying Eichel was traded and all of a sudden got to center Pastrnak and Marchand after playing with Pominville/Rodrigues/Reinhart. Suddenly that's poor utilization?

That Aho kid looks pretty ok...

yet somehow he and Skinner played only 30 minutes together last year...

I'm a bit surprised how much Carolina fans want to defend Peters/Francis....
 

GoldiFox

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Apr 21, 2014
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That Aho kid looks pretty ok...

yet somehow he and Skinner played only 30 minutes together last year...

I'm a bit surprised how much Carolina fans want to defend Peters/Francis....

Nobody is defending Peters/Francis? Your take is just terrible. Specifically:

Prior 2 seasons....
930 minutes with Derek Ryan
920 minutes with Victor Rask
590 minutes with Elias Lindholm
It’s clearly poor utilization

Skinner scored 37 goals good for #7 in the league and #2 for 5v5 goals (behind only Matthews) during one of those years.

A player can't be one of the top goal scorers in the league while being "utilized poorly" on one of the worst offensive teams in the league. That only happens through good utilization. You might not like the specifics of it, but the results can't be argued.
 

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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Skinner scored 37 goals good for #7 in the league and #2 for 5v5 goals (behind only Matthews) during one of those years.

He's on pace for 50 right now, playing with a top tier center.

A player can't be one of the top goal scorers in the league while being "utilized poorly" on one of the worst offensive teams in the league. That only happens through good utilization. You might not like the specifics of it, but the results can't be argued.

I disagree.... very strongly.

Consistently churning 30 goals, out of a 50 goal talent.... isn't a reflection of good utilization.
Consistently playing top tier goal scoring talent with 3rd line checking centers.... isn't good utlitization

Aho is 2nd in the league in ES assists. Not pairing your most offensively skilled center with your best goal scorer... is just bad. It's the kind of bad... that gets you fired.
 

is the answer jesus

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Mar 10, 2008
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Nobody is defending Peters/Francis? Your take is just terrible. Specifically:




Skinner scored 37 goals good for #7 in the league and #2 for 5v5 goals (behind only Matthews) during one of those years.

A player can't be one of the top goal scorers in the league while being "utilized poorly" on one of the worst offensive teams in the league. That only happens through good utilization. You might not like the specifics of it, but the results can't be argued.
I'm not going to pretend that I have more insight into a team than fans of that team do, but just looking at those minutes having Skinner play huge minutes with Rask and Ryan wouldn't exactly get me on the Skinner was properly utilized bandwagon. Sure he did have a very good season two years ago, sandwiched between two rather average ones (for Skinner). Again as an outsider I would think more minutes with Lindholm and Aho would have resulted in some better numbers from Skinner.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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Aho started playing center in late February/early March. Prior to that, he played the same position as Skinner.

Perhaps experimenting with one on RW would have been worthwhile, but it would have left the middle-6 with a bunch of complimentary players struggling to supply secondary scoring.

Carolina flat out had a talent problem during the bulk of Skinner's tenure. It's really that simple.
 

GoldiFox

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Apr 21, 2014
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He's on pace for 50 right now, playing with a top tier center.



I disagree.... very strongly.

Consistently churning 30 goals, out of a 50 goal talent.... isn't a reflection of good utilization.
Consistently playing top tier goal scoring talent with 3rd line checking centers.... isn't good utlitization

Aho is 2nd in the league in ES assists. Not pairing your most offensively skilled center with your best goal scorer... is just bad. It's the kind of bad... that gets you fired.

Aho played Center for an entire 10 games while Skinner was a Hurricane. But again, that just shows your lack of understanding of the situation.

1) Skinner is a 30 goal talent whom the Canes utilized properly to squeeze 37 goals out of
2) Skinner is a 50 goal talent whom the Canes have been destroying with bad utilization his whole career

You are free to believe #2 if you want. Just a bad take is all.

I'm not going to pretend that I have more insight into a team than fans of that team do, but just looking at those minutes having Skinner play huge minutes with Rask and Ryan wouldn't exactly get me on the Skinner was properly utilized bandwagon. Sure he did have a very good season two years ago, sandwiched between two rather average ones (for Skinner). Again as an outsider I would think more minutes with Lindholm and Aho would have resulted in some better numbers from Skinner.

You assume that playing with better linemates will always result in higher production. Have you considered that being sheltered on the 3rd line with Rask/Ryan, allowing Skinner to play against lesser competition, resulted in more goals for, less goals against, and overall represents proper utilization?
 

Royal Thunder

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Feb 21, 2012
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You assume that playing with better linemates will always result in higher production. Have you considered that being sheltered on the 3rd line with Rask/Ryan, allowing Skinner to play against lesser competition, resulted in more goals for, less goals against, and overall represents proper utilization?
And yet now Skinner is 6th in the league in +\- while playing on a surefire top line against top competition... small sample size but still significant
 

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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Aho played Center for an entire 10 games while Skinner was a Hurricane. But again, that just shows your lack of understanding of the situation.

Or Peters...

1) Skinner is a 30 goal talent whom the Canes utilized properly to squeeze 37 goals out of

once...

2) Skinner is a 50 goal talent whom the Canes have been destroying with bad utilization his whole career

Nah... you didn't destroy him... he looks fine.

You are free to believe #2 if you want. Just a bad take is all.

I believe playing Skinner with Victor Rask and Derek Ryan when you have guys like Lindholm and Aho... is bad utilization.

You assume that playing with better linemates will always result in higher production.

I don't assume it. But it should be tested.
30 minutes with Aho is comical.

Have you considered that being sheltered on the 3rd line with Rask/Ryan, allowing Skinner to play against lesser competition, resulted in more goals for, less goals against, and overall represents proper utilization?

Yes... I used to believe that too.
 
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Jame

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Aho started playing center in late February/early March. Prior to that, he played the same position as Skinner.

Perhaps experimenting with one on RW would have been worthwhile, but it would have left the middle-6 with a bunch of complimentary players struggling to supply secondary scoring.

Carolina flat out had a talent problem during the bulk of Skinner's tenure. It's really that simple.

Seeing what Skinner, Lindholm, and Aho are doing this year... on 3 different teams, being utilized differently than they were in Carolina... supports that there was a utilization problem in Carolina.
 
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Flames Fanatic

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And yet now Skinner is 6th in the league in +\- while playing on a surefire top line against top competition... small sample size but still significant

+/- is also not a great stat.

This thread is interesting though. I didn't realize just how good that line has been. By comparison, the Flames top line, which I consider as playing incredibly well (Gaudreau tied for 6th, Monahan tied for 8th, Lindholm tied for 14th) has only combined for 11 goals and 17 assists in that same time period. Glad to see Pominville having a mini-resurgence.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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Seeing what Skinner, Lindholm, and Aho are doing this year... on 3 different teams, being utilized differently than they were in Carolina... supports that there was a utilization problem in Carolina.

Skinner and Lindholm are playing with elite linemates Carolina just didn't have. Aho has gotten better because he's taken a step forward in his development; he's more and more productive with each passing half season.

Tell me how Peters should have set the lines last year with goal being to maximize the chance to win games, not maximize the production of any given player.

Skinner
Aho
Teravainen
Lindholm
Staal
Rask
Ryan
Williams
Nordstrom
Kruger
McGinn
Di Giuseppe
 

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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Florida
Skinner and Lindholm are playing with elite linemates Carolina just didn't have. Aho has gotten better because he's taken a step forward in his development; he's more and more productive with each passing half season.

Tell me how Peters should have set the lines last year with goal being to maximize the chance to win games, not maximize the production of any given player.

Skinner
Aho
Teravainen
Lindholm
Staal
Rask
Ryan
Williams
Nordstrom
Kruger
McGinn
Di Giuseppe

Skinner-Aho-Lindholm
Teravainen-Staal-Williams
McGinn-Rask-Ryan
DiGuiseppe-Kruger-XXXX
 

Aladyyn

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Apr 6, 2015
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We were told by Canes fans that Skinner didn't mesh well with great players. Doesn't seem to be an issue with Eichel (a very pleasant surprise). I think that supports our point.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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Skinner-Aho-Lindholm
Teravainen-Staal-Williams
McGinn-Rask-Ryan
DiGuiseppe-Kruger-XXXX

Aho and TT have incredible chemistry so it made no sense to break them up. Also, Aho wasn't ready to play center full time last year as he only did it for 10 games.

We were told by Canes fans that Skinner didn't mesh well with great players. Doesn't seem to be an issue with Eichel (a very pleasant surprise). I think that supports our point.

No, we didn't say he doesn't play well with great players. We said he doesn't mesh well with a lot of players... which is true. When he was here he was a guy who wanted/needed the puck on his stick so he could dangle, make sharp cuts and fire shots. That's why pairing him with linemates who were more puck retrievers and space creaters seemed to be the best fit for him. He had no interest in playing a game based on passing, cycles, or breakouts. Plus the Canes really didn't have any 'great' players for him to line up with for the most part.

If he's found chemistry with Eichel and Poms then that's great but he was definitely a bit of an island in Carolina and that seemed to be by his choice rather than the coaching staff. Now maybe he saw the players on the team and decided that he *had* to do everything on his own otherwise the Canes were getting shut out but that was definitely his mentality here.
 
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Icicle

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Eichel is pretty elite at puck retrieval. Although he can finish well, he often chooses not to. Skinner and Eichel pair well because Skinner can work magic as long as someone else does the initial forecheck for him. Though, it must be noted that Skinner is great at preventing breakouts, but Thant’s different than initial entries and dump ins. Pominville caps the trio by being in position to finish since he’s fairly smart, even with his wheels fallen off. It looks like he’s already been replaced by Reinhart anyway.

Canes fans did say keep Skinner away from talent and let him drive a 3rd line. Buffalo just got rid of another player with the same fate: Evander Kane. Big difference was that Kane has zero hockey IQ and would shoot or turnover the puck every time he got his hands on it, and Eichel passed too soon in a play for that to mesh. He was also a bugger diva that simply stopped trying when he wasn’t getting top minutes anymore. Kane has a better locker room now, which helps a lot for brute iq players like him.


Skinner and Eichel compliment each other perfectly though. They only suffer defensively when Eichel takes his games off, but no winger is going to resolve that anyway. He needs to be retained in Buffalo and I think he has every reason to want to stay too. He’s always smiling out there and that bodes well for negotiations.

I hope they can keep him under 8 mil. 5 years might be nice for flexibility, but there’s little risk for 8 years with Jack always going to be here for that. Get it done.

Doubt anything happens until offseason anyway.
 

truthbluth

Registered User
Feb 2, 2011
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Now 10 games with Eichel and Pominville
Skinner: 11 goals, 5 assists
Eichel: 1 Goal, 13 assist
Pominville: 7 Goals, 7 assists

Sabres are 6-2-2

Skinner is tied for 2nd in the league in goals and EV goals. 3rd in the league in +/-, regardless of what you think of that stat
 
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mflo77

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omg. people are actually talking 8-9 million for skinner??????:huh:
i expect 5 years, 6.5 per. Or something similar to a JVR contract.
 

Sabres

Registered User
Jan 15, 2017
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Buffalo, NY
omg. people are actually talking 8-9 million for skinner??????:huh:
i expect 5 years, 6.5 per. Or something similar to a JVR contract.

I don't think you understand how the current market in the NHL works if you think he's only going to get 6.5 per year...
 

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
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omg. people are actually talking 8-9 million for skinner??????:huh:
i expect 5 years, 6.5 per. Or something similar to a JVR contract.

2012 called. they want their big bloated salary back.
He won’t be getting that.

In 2019, the big bloated contract for Skinner will be 8-9 mil. For 6-7 years. And he’ll get it from some team. Sad but true.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
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At this point Skinner's track record is a bit better than Cam Atkinson's overall with similar peak production. 9M is nonsense money.
 

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