Player Discussion Jeff Skinner - Part II

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
7,226
1,137
Europe
If you let Jeff leave we have a grand total of TWO real NHL quality forwards on our entire roster. We are very likely looking at a 60 point season and a bottom 3 finish. If in the season after that we had a 20 point improvement we would still fail to make to make the playoffs by close to 20 points. Then those two forwards who will have completely wasted 6-7 years of their careers will look to force their way out of town. Our organization is hemorrhaging blood and the wound needs to be fixed NOW. We need to become a credible NHL team again, that is the priority. I'm sick of every season wondering why I should even care because the team is such a total abomination that even the idea of just competing for a playoff spot is a total fantasy. The BS needs to stop.
The BS that needs to stop is this board screaming for years about building from the draft and to not overpay in UFA and then asking Botts to grand 8x9 to a non-elite winger. Make your mind up.
 

Fjordy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
15,220
8,183
Enough to carry this bullshit, we need Jeff Skinner, if you need to overpay, then so be it, I'm tired of seeing the team falls lower, build from the draft can still be 10 years and still be at the bottom of the table.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabremike

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
22,440
33,622
Brewster, NY
The BS that needs to stop is this board screaming for years about building from the draft and to not overpay in UFA and then asking Botts to grand 8x9 to a non-elite winger. Make your mind up.
How does overpaying for a really good FA prevent you from building from the draft unless you sign a guy to an offer sheet and have to give up picks? One has nothing to do with the other.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brian_griffin

Buffaloed

webmaster
Feb 27, 2002
43,324
23,584
Niagara Falls
Remember when the Lightning had the Big 4, Lecavalier, St Louis, Richards, and Boyle? These guys were still in their prime when the team took a nosedive in 2007-08. It was like someone flipped a switch. The prevailing theory is they had so much cap money tied up in their 4 stars they had to surround them with sobotkans™. Could Eichel, Skinner, Reinhart, and Dahlin be our Big 4? I hope so. I can't wait to run them out of town for costing too much after we win a cup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabresfan3383

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
7,226
1,137
Europe
How does overpaying for a really good FA prevent you from building from the draft unless you sign a guy to an offer sheet and have to give up picks? One has nothing to do with the other.
Because we have no reason to overpay for Skinner before July 1st. No one would offer more than 9x7. 0 reasons to offer him 9x8 today when you know no one would beat your offer if you wait until july 1st.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taylor Halls Teeth

jcbeze

Registered User
Dec 27, 2005
1,764
952
Because we have no reason to overpay for Skinner before July 1st. No one would offer more than 9x7. 0 reasons to offer him 9x8 today when you know no one would beat your offer if you wait until july 1st.
a bird in the hand yada yada yada
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
147,570
95,998
Tarnation
Because we have no reason to overpay for Skinner before July 1st. No one would offer more than 9x7. 0 reasons to offer him 9x8 today when you know no one would beat your offer if you wait until july 1st.

I find the idea that no one is going to make a competitive bid for Skinner's services odd in light of what we know of the league.
 

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
7,226
1,137
Europe
I find the idea that no one is going to make a competitive bid for Skinner's services odd in light of what we know of the league.
There is competitive and then there is absurd. To match 8x9 you have to offer 7x10. 7x10 is absurd and no way anyone would offer that to Skinner. Hes Hot Panarin or Marner in case folks around here have forgotten.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,071
7,187
Czech Republic
b723a806aa.png

6a070861d1.png


These other guys are probably getting 10M+ as RFAs...
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabremike

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,071
7,187
Czech Republic
What does that show? Serious question, I'm old school and don't even attempt to read analytics
Attempts to estimate an individual's impact on these metrics. GF is Goals For = basically shooting talent. Corsi for and against is just shot attempts while xG (expected goals) is shot attempts weighted by shot quality.
 

jcbeze

Registered User
Dec 27, 2005
1,764
952
Attempts to estimate an individual's impact on these metrics. GF is Goals For = basically shooting talent. Corsi for and against is just shot attempts while xG (expected goals) is shot attempts weighted by shot quality.
So is it good for skinner or not?
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
147,570
95,998
Tarnation
There is competitive and then there is absurd. To match 8x9 you have to offer 7x10. 7x10 is absurd and no way anyone would offer that to Skinner. Hes Hot Panarin or Marner in case folks around here have forgotten.

Panarin is getting over $10M and so is Marner. And if it happens that Columbus wants to replace Panarin's goals, then hey, there is a guy in Buffalo who they haven't decided to re-sign before markets open who they could bid on, using your scenario. So too if the Leafs did wind up with a Marner OS - they could turn around and pay Skinner a little less and bank 4 first rounders which then could give them all sorts of clout to wheel off bad contracts with plenty of sweeteners, and still have enough left over to push for good defensemen without a big drop in goal scoring. Or the Rangers, who could be looking to spend a bit since they have pieces coming along and could use scoring off the wing. Or the Islanders, who could use another scoring LW and have cap available and a competitive front office. Or the Wings, who can market themselves as close to Toronto, Yzerman in charge, and a lot of youngsters either on the team who could use goal help AND a boatload of picks in the top 3 rounds over the next three drafts to turn into depth or trade for players now. Montreal is looking to improve, the Penguins may be shipping out Kessel to shake up their roster and would then have a need for elite 5-on-5 scoring and a couple of guys who could set the table for him nicely.

Don't try to sell that there aren't NHL teams who aren't going to bid on him, nor that they aren't going to bid high. That's never, ever been the case in NHL free agency. It is always a case of fools and their money.

What does that show? Serious question, I'm old school and don't even attempt to read analytics

The bars are standard deviations away from the mean. Positive is good, negative is bad. The higher the bar, the better. If someone is above the 2, they're better than 95% of the league. So too if they are below it. IF they are above the 3, then better than 99.7% of the league. It isn't infallible, but it can be illustrative.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: brian_griffin

Uberpecker

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
3,401
1,543
Offensively he's incredible. Defensively he's bad.
All those newfangled metrics only to tell us what Canes fans have been saying all along even before he got here. :D
Seriously though, it's the reason why I wanna see him get a look centered by Reinhart with maybe Mitts on the other wing.
 

Taylor Halls Teeth

Registered User
Jul 11, 2018
155
108
Edmonton
Has anything based on comps suggested he will get an $8M offer on the open market, or is it is all fear of some market correction? Doesn't it set the stage for every other player shooting for a new market setting number "or I'll leave"?
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
Because we have no reason to overpay for Skinner before July 1st. No one would offer more than 9x7. 0 reasons to offer him 9x8 today when you know no one would beat your offer if you wait until july 1st.

That’s not an answer to the question that was asked
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
There is competitive and then there is absurd. To match 8x9 you have to offer 7x10. 7x10 is absurd and no way anyone would offer that to Skinner. Hes Hot Panarin or Marner in case folks around here have forgotten.

There will be numerous team who miss out on Panarin, and will re-allocate to the next target (Skinner).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chainshot

Montag DP

Sabres fan in...
Apr 4, 2007
11,852
4,066
...Maryland
Teams will be lining up for Skinner if we let him (or he chooses to) get to FA. I have little doubt he would get 8x9 on the market. I hope we can get him for less, but do what you have to do to sign him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chainshot

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,071
7,187
Czech Republic
All those newfangled metrics only to tell us what Canes fans have been saying all along even before he got here. :D
Seriously though, it's the reason why I wanna see him get a look centered by Reinhart with maybe Mitts on the other wing.
I expected him to be worse than he was outside of the offensive zone. He wasn't good but he wasn't terrible I thought.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
It’s really weird for someone’s entire anti-Skinner contract argument to be based on the belief that other GMs won’t give out ridiculous money in free agency... meanwhile, Tyler Bozak got 5 million per, at 32 years old....
 

jc17

Registered User
Jun 14, 2013
11,010
7,729
Jamie benn got 9.5 for 40 goals at age 26, although i'm not sure it looks great now
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->