Jeff Blashill (mod warning post #44)

[plymouthmi]

This is exactly why I dont want Blashill fired. If we are going to have a stop gap, let Blashill be that stop gap. I dont want these kids having 3 coaches in 4 years which is what would likely happen if we fired Blashill and promoted Bylsma. If we dump Blashill, I want the coach of the future to be his replacement.

This is where I am at too. I have no really strong feelings about Blashill one way or the other, but I also don't see much point in firing him for what may be just another stop-gap coach. I'd rather we fire him for someone who will be a long term solution.

The biggest thing is how long he has been here and losing, like I said earlier, I am being honest in that I can't recall what other coach is in their 5th season of losing hockey. Is there even one in the NHL, because I can't recall one.

This might just be semantics but are we really counting Blashill's first season as a losing season just because of the OTLs? Even at that he'd be at .500 for that seasons which is technically not a losing season.

I think someone already mentioned this but Barry Trotz had losing seasons his first 5 seasons with Nashville. (Side note: Was looking at those old Nashville rosters and I'd forgotten all about tiny Cliff Ronning!) Back in the day Sid Abel had 4 out of 5 losing seasons then the next year the Wings won the Cup. Blashill could pull that off.

 

[Retire91]

There is a solid difference between supporting Blash and thinking there is no point in a coaching change because it will not make any difference. I just wanted to say that.

Just because a person doesn't support firing blash does not make them a blah endorser when the fact that the team will still suck no matter what happens this season is sitting on the table.

Maybe Yzerman like's Blash's relationship with the players remember he coached these guys in Grand Rapids and maybe he has some influence in them still developing even though they are getting their shorts handed to them by real teams. Maybe a coach that is going to come in here and yell at everyone to achieve 2 or 3 more wins this seasons isn't the best direction.

I just don't see the point of a coaching change, at all unless Bowman is available to come back.

 

[Hammettf2b]

There is a solid difference between supporting Blash and thinking there is no point in a coaching change because it will not make any difference. I just wanted to say that.

Just because a person doesn't support firing blash does not make them a blah endorser when the fact that the team will still suck no matter what happens this season is sitting on the table.

Maybe Yzerman like's Blash's relationship with the players remember he coached these guys in Grand Rapids and maybe he has some influence in them still developing even though they are getting their shorts handed to them by real teams. Maybe a coach that is going to come in here and yell at everyone to achieve 2 or 3 more wins this seasons isn't the best direction.

I just don't see the point of a coaching change, at all unless Bowman is available to come back.

My fear is if this team finally does become good, we would still be subjected to the piano pullers of the world. I don't want to see that again.

 

[Retire91]

I don't see that happening I think he only has 1 year of his contract right? I would be surprised if he gets renewed and even if he does I think it would be short term and he would be a place holder until Yzerman thinks the window is opening.

 

[Winger98]

You didn't answer the question.
Because if you do, you're admitting that you can't keep losing forever with Blashill.
And once you admit that, the question is, when is enough?

I think by NHL standards, he's already hit "when."


And I disagree. This team could easily struggle for the next five years - new coach or not. We've got a lot of youngish NHL talent. And a lot of them will probably turn into legit NHLers. But I don't know that we have an elite player in our organization. And I don't know that guys like Zadina, Svech, Rasmussen, Veleno and Cholo are going to be that great.
I also don't have a ton of faith that Seider is going to be some kind of game-changer, either.

I look around the league and I see teams with as much talent as we might have one day. And some of those teams still suck.

Realistically, let's assume we don't pass up on a difference-making forward this year.
And let's assume Seider turns into a Parayko-style defenseman. I still think we're 4 years away, minimum, from making the playoffs.

I answered the question with the seriousness it was posed.

 

[MBH]

I answered the question with the seriousness it was posed.

I'm trying to get at the crux of your argument.

How long is the "bad roster" pass valid for? 4 years? 6 years? 10 years?
Isn't there a point where you just move on?

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'm trying to get at the crux of your argument.

How long is the "bad roster" pass valid for? 4 years? 6 years? 10 years?
Isn't there a point where you just move on?

How about “as long as it takes for the team to shift expectations”?

If the Wings are going to continue to conduct hockey operations like a rebuilding organization, what is the reasoning to fire a coach? I can tell you that the organization doesn’t want to pay the coach for two full years of sitting on the couch. The next coach that gets hired is saddled with the same poor roster for the next 2 years and you’ll be calling for their head when they don’t make the playoffs.

If you want to get rid of a coach for poor performance, step one would be to declare yourself as a team trying to contend for the playoffs.

 

[MBH]

How about “as long as it takes for the team to shift expectations”?

If the Wings are going to continue to conduct hockey operations like a rebuilding organization, what is the reasoning to fire a coach? I can tell you that the organization doesn’t want to pay the coach for two full years of sitting on the couch. The next coach that gets hired is saddled with the same poor roster for the next 2 years and you’ll be calling for their head when they don’t make the playoffs.

If you want to get rid of a coach for poor performance, step one would be to declare yourself as a team trying to contend for the playoffs.

Right. So, theoretically, you'd be good with Blashill losing as long as he has a bad team. 4 years. 8 years. 10 years, whatever.

I fire him because
1) He loses.
2) His rules for accountability undermine the concept of accountability.
3) His NHL work with young players is spotty at best, and we need to develop young players.
4) At some point, you have to change voices, win or lose. And even more frequently when you lose.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Right. So, theoretically, you'd be good with Blashill losing as long as he has a bad team. 4 years. 8 years. 10 years, whatever.

I fire him because
1) He loses.
2) His rules for accountability undermine the concept of accountability.
3) His NHL work with young players is spotty at best, and we need to develop young players.
4) At some point, you have to change voices, win or lose. And even more frequently when you lose.

Here’s the thing, I am putting myself in the shoes of the GM. I like what he’s done with players like Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi. I’ve not given him a quality team to play. I’m not expecting him to make a playoff contender considering I’ve taken the stance of rebuilding. I don’t want to pay his contract and have to hire and pay a second coach who will be subject to the same poor situation and won’t give me any additional returns.

 

[Winger98]

I'm trying to get at the crux of your argument.

How long is the "bad roster" pass valid for? 4 years? 6 years? 10 years?
Isn't there a point where you just move on?

I think it's valid until the roster is better, assuming management and the coach are on the same page with the team they want to build. But if they aren't on the same page, I think we start seeing talk of guys not being used right, guys not being groomed correctly, etc. I haven't always been a fan of Blashill's system. There are stretches where I think the Wings have looked like a disorganized mess, and I'd be good with firing him because of that.

At the same time, I think he's done well with the majority of kids that have came up the past few years in getting them to grow their games and getting a lot out of them. Athanasiou is probably the only guy I can look at and see it just not working with.

With a blatantly lousy team, I want a reason for firing any coach to be something beyond, "well, we're lousy."

 

[Winger98]

Right. So, theoretically, you'd be good with Blashill losing as long as he has a bad team. 4 years. 8 years. 10 years, whatever.

I fire him because
1) He loses.
2) His rules for accountability undermine the concept of accountability.
3) His NHL work with young players is spotty at best, and we need to develop young players.
4) At some point, you have to change voices, win or lose. And even more frequently when you lose.

Someone should point out the bolded reasons go beyond the win/loss record.

 

[kliq]

I think it's valid until the roster is better, assuming management and the coach are on the same page with the team they want to build. But if they aren't on the same page, I think we start seeing talk of guys not being used right, guys not being groomed correctly, etc. I haven't always been a fan of Blashill's system. There are stretches where I think the Wings have looked like a disorganized mess, and I'd be good with firing him because of that.

At the same time, I think he's done well with the majority of kids that have came up the past few years in getting them to grow their games and getting a lot out of them. Athanasiou is probably the only guy I can look at and see it just not working with.

With a blatantly lousy team, I want a reason for firing any coach to be something beyond, "well, we're lousy."

100% agree with this. My personal expectation of any coach is to get the most out of the players he is given. Its not an excuse to say that Blashill has a bad roster, its reality. What I care about is the development of young players. If he has a bad roster for 10 years, I don't hold him accountable for all 10 years as long as he gets the most out of what he has. Just like if I have a coach with a great roster for one year, and the team sucks, I fire him after one year.

Right. So, theoretically, you'd be good with Blashill losing as long as he has a bad team. 4 years. 8 years. 10 years, whatever.

I fire him because
1) He loses.
2) His rules for accountability undermine the concept of accountability.
3) His NHL work with young players is spotty at best, and we need to develop young players.
4) At some point, you have to change voices, win or lose. And even more frequently when you lose.

Numbers 1 - Doesnt matter to me, what I said above explains why.

Number 2 - Hard to say. I think sometimes as fans we make assumptions about things like this, when in reality we have no clue because we are not in the locker room, we don't talk to the players. I'm not going to say you are wrong, but I'm not going to say you are right. But I can't measure accountability as simply minutes played Serious question, have you ever read/heard anything about any present or former players accusing Blashill of this?

Number 3 - Sorry, but I completely disagree. I'm extremely happy with the development of Larkin, Mantha, Hronek, Bertuzzi, and AA. Blashill understands that these kids are the future, and he does put more pressure on them then the vets because I believe he knows that them doing things the right way is crucial. I know from your previous posts that you think these kids are good despite Blashill, so I guess agree to disagree.

Number 4 - For the most part this is correct. There are outliers of course (ie. Bill Belichick/NE) but no argument here.

With all this said, if a coach becomes available that Yzerman sees as the coach of the future, and not just as a stop gap, I have no problem letting go of Blashill.

 

[Snuggs]

What is he doing extremely bad?

Line consistency, Young players not getting ice time. Stuff like that. Stuff the people over look and say it's because of Yzerman or the roster, but yeah... Idk, young players are called up and ride the fourth line and I don't see how that helps development too much. Might as well just stay in the AHL and get top line minutes vs coming here if thats how Blashill treats guys.

Took forever for him to find the Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi line last year. Like literally for ever...

 

[Snuggs]

Line consistency, Young players not getting ice time. Stuff like that. Stuff the people over look and say it's because of Yzerman or the roster, but yeah... Idk, young players are called up and ride the fourth line and I don't see how that helps development too much. Might as well just stay in the AHL and get top line minutes vs coming here if thats how Blashill treats guys.

Took forever for him to find the Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi line last year. Like literally for ever...

Plays guys like Abdelkader on the PP and wonder why it's a struggling unit... Stuff like that. I literally don't know what he does too well outside of speaking to the media.

I'm not about to sit here and say that's worthy to keep him, or the roster is terrible, so therefore the coach has to make all four lines terrible.

 

[MBH]

I think it's valid until the roster is better, assuming management and the coach are on the same page with the team they want to build. But if they aren't on the same page, I think we start seeing talk of guys not being used right, guys not being groomed correctly, etc. I haven't always been a fan of Blashill's system. There are stretches where I think the Wings have looked like a disorganized mess, and I'd be good with firing him because of that.

At the same time, I think he's done well with the majority of kids that have came up the past few years in getting them to grow their games and getting a lot out of them. Athanasiou is probably the only guy I can look at and see it just not working with.

With a blatantly lousy team, I want a reason for firing any coach to be something beyond, "well, we're lousy."

Well,
In terms of youth who he's struggled with.
Athanasiou. Mantha (at times).
Mrazek. Jurco. Pulkkinen. Ouellet. Sheahan.
Both Tatar and Nyquist regressed under him. (Though Nyquist eventually stepped up again).

The main success stories for Blash are Bertuzzi and Larkin.

It's way too early to say, for me, that Cholowski and Hronek have developed well under Blashill.

 

[Retire91]

Expectations are different as the years go on, if the red wings get a few NHL ready top 5 picks and make a splash on some UFA/RFA (especially on D) and he is still puts up losing seasons, then yeah let's talk. I am not sure what anyone is expecting right now other than what is actually happening. And none of the points made that a new coach would bring really make a difference IMO. I don't see the point in firing someone just to fire someone.

Yzerman also makes pretty calculated moves, I don't see him bringing in a temporary 1-2 year solution while he is probably actively timing the coach he wants to hire as a permanent fixture for the next 6-7 years. Not to mention do you want to spend your political will convincing the Illichs to basically buy out Blash for a temporary probably more expensive solution that is not in the future plans when there is no monetary upside like playoff revenue to justify the expense.

 

[Robert DeLaurence]

Its hard to say it's all Blashill with the roster he has. Basically one line. But the last game vs St. Louis is what I see quite a bit.. How can we be dominate, the 3rd period, but not be ready for the first period? Or have a good 40 minutes and not be ready to open the 3rd? That's a coaches responsibility. Get them ready. We might not be that talented but we have enough not to lose 7 straight games. I don't know what the best decision is though.

 

[14ari13]

Have first line BLM, rest of lines play trap hockey with AA always ready for breakaway ,bring Rasmussen as PP specialist. Yes we might get to play offs , but get killed in the first round and not get high pic at the draft. We don't have yet prospect who turned this franchise around, we need more prospects.

Not really.
Our main problem is the goaltending, the the defence and then the forwards.
We are the very last team in the league now.

 

[Mlotek]

There is a solid difference between supporting Blash and thinking there is no point in a coaching change because it will not make any difference. I just wanted to say that.

Just because a person doesn't support firing blash does not make them a blah endorser when the fact that the team will still suck no matter what happens this season is sitting on the table.

Maybe Yzerman like's Blash's relationship with the players remember he coached these guys in Grand Rapids and maybe he has some influence in them still developing even though they are getting their shorts handed to them by real teams. Maybe a coach that is going to come in here and yell at everyone to achieve 2 or 3 more wins this seasons isn't the best direction.

I just don't see the point of a coaching change, at all unless Bowman is available to come back.

So here are the guys on the roster Blash had in GR (maybe I am missing someone)

DK - 6 playoff games
Larkin - 6 playoff games
Bertuzzi - 2 games+playoffs
AA - 1 season+2 regular+6 playoffs
Glendening - season + part of another
Mantha - 1 season

So essentially AA, Glendie, and Mantha. Unless you consider a handful of games hugely impactful.

Bowman ain't coming back, even as a 'consultant' for Chicago he no longer travels with the team. He lives in Tampa and supposedly does not travel much. Unofficially would consult Yzerman when he was down there. Bowman left Detroit in summer of 08, doubt he coming back at this point in his life.

 

[Mlotek]

Expectations are different as the years go on, if the red wings get a few NHL ready top 5 picks and make a splash on some UFA/RFA (especially on D) and he is still puts up losing seasons, then yeah let's talk. I am not sure what anyone is expecting right now other than what is actually happening. And none of the points made that a new coach would bring really make a difference IMO. I don't see the point in firing someone just to fire someone.

Yzerman also makes pretty calculated moves, I don't see him bringing in a temporary 1-2 year solution while he is probably actively timing the coach he wants to hire as a permanent fixture for the next 6-7 years. Not to mention do you want to spend your political will convincing the Illichs to basically buy out Blash for a temporary probably more expensive solution that is not in the future plans when there is no monetary upside like playoff revenue to justify the expense.

Blash would still get paid rest of his contract unless he takes another coaching job during the length of contract after being fired.

Which with Blash is very likely, even if an assistant role.

Considering Blash is on a 2 year deal, and if fired this year, Disco Dan likely to be given the ball as interim coach. So.... if Blash would be fired, likely just 1 year of paying for a new head coach.

Really doubt your scenario is a major concern. Just look at the number of coaching changes 2 cent Melnyk has gone through.

 

[ZEBROA]

Do you want Babcock back?

 

[Mlotek]

Not really.
Our main problem is the goaltending, the the defence and then the forwards.
We are the very last team in the league now.

Howard is NOT the problem. Even last year his numbers were solid halfway through. Bernier on otherhand, has been letting in softies his entire career, it is NOT a surprise he's been meh with Detroit.

Yah Wings let in a lot of goals, but for most part, goaltending isn't really the issue.

Your hope for future is Larsson who is currently in GR and splitting duties with Pickard or the backup. Too early to tell.

Got a fun game for you.

Watch some of the goals against Detroit this season and look if the goals are actually the fault of the goalie, or blown coverage and random bounces where goalie is thrown into the deep end or out of luck. Kinda how Boston threw Rask under the bus in game 7.

I remember a stretch in January a few years back where DK and Ericsson combined for 5+ own goals in a just over a week.

 

[Mlotek]

Do you want Babcock back?

I actually wanted Gallant after he was fired by Florida, but hey, Blashill is obviously the better coach.

Right?
Right???
Right?????

 

[ZEBROA]

I actually wanted Gallant after he was fired by Florida, but hey, Blashill is obviously the better coach.

Right?
Right???
Right?????

So we are stuck with Babs...

 

[14ari13]

Howard is NOT the problem. Even last year his numbers were solid halfway through. Bernier on otherhand, has been letting in softies his entire career, it is NOT a surprise he's been meh with Detroit.

Yah Wings let in a lot of goals, but for most part, goaltending isn't really the issue.

Your hope for future is Larsson who is currently in GR and splitting duties with Pickard or the backup. Too early to tell.

Got a fun game for you.

Watch some of the goals against Detroit this season and look if the goals are actually the fault of the goalie, or blown coverage and random bounces where goalie is thrown into the deep end or out of luck. Kinda how Boston threw Rask under the bus in game 7.

I remember a stretch in January a few years back where DK and Ericsson combined for 5+ own goals in a just over a week.

Where have you been all these years?