Jeff Blashill (mod warning post #44)

[Claypool]

Yes, 100%

I am not on team tank.

So you'd rather keep losing long-term and not get elite talent in the draft than just deal with a couple losing seasons?

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

So you'd rather keep losing long-term and not get elite talent in the draft than just deal with a couple losing seasons?

And here's where we part ways friend. I'm not taking this bait.

We will not agree and I'm not getting into this debate anymore. I won't change your mind, you wont change mine.

 

[Claypool]

I watch every game that I can. I would rather they lose as many games as they can to ensure a 35% chance at a top 2 pick.

 

[Henkka]

I watch every game that I can. I would rather they lose as many games as they can to ensure a 35% chance at a top 2 pick.

Funny how complicated this is for people. Don't mean you.

I watch also every game. Try to find always some positive from the game. Team is bad, theres always more negatives than positives. But I like the positives. I just won't care about the result. Its nice to see a win, and it won't hurt at all to see a loss. This is temporary and every succes era will need some kind of rebuild era.

Waiting for that 35% chance to at least Byfield too.

Don't have to hate anything, don't have to blame anything. Time will fix this team. Bad contracts will die, kids will develop, we draft high. Repeat.

Blashill is pretty much irrelevant. I could want a coaching change if this team would have some great potential, but would suffer on the bottom.

People's opinions are against expectations. This team is as bad as it was on every pre-season analyze (bottom2) and when you add the injuries, no wonder it's the worst. That's just realism. Coaching change does not make miracles for those facts.

Time will do the thing, on Yzerman's hands.

 

[lilidk]

I watch every game that I can. I would rather they lose as many games as they can to ensure a 35% chance at a top 2 pick.

But you know NJ going to get #1

 

[Nemesis Prime]

God the pro-tankers are the worst. You can tell that none of them watch, or attend the games because if you do actually watch this team on the regular basis, nobody would advocate for this path we're on. It's ****ing ****

Hey, what do you know. A bunch of mid-late round draft picks aren't able to turn the team around. It's almost as if you need to..draft elite talent.

 

[Red Stanley]

Yes, 100%

I am not on team tank.

Neither am I, but here we are. Team will be terrible regardless of who's coaching it. If you're this terrible, might as well finish last and get the best chance at a top 2 pick in this really strong draft. The young players who matter have already been coached by Blashill all this time. Keeping him for the rest of the season (even if only to ensure we do finish dead last) will not derail their development. Unless they find a coach who is known for good development, I don't see the point.

 

[14ari13]

Neither am I, but here we are. Team will be terrible regardless of who's coaching it. If you're this terrible, might as well finish last and get the best chance at a top 2 pick in this really strong draft. The young players who matter have already been coached by Blashill all this time. Keeping him for the rest of the season (even if only to ensure we do finish dead last) will not derail their development. Unless they find a coach who is known for good development, I don't see the point.

This coach discussion is completely unnecessary and wrong for several reasons. This coach discussion is for fans who do not know much about hockey.

For those who do, the only relevant discussion is the development of the core players.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Neither am I, but here we are. Team will be terrible regardless of who's coaching it. If you're this terrible, might as well finish last and get the best chance at a top 2 pick in this really strong draft. The young players who matter have already been coached by Blashill all this time. Keeping him for the rest of the season (even if only to ensure we do finish dead last) will not derail their development. Unless they find a coach who is known for good development, I don't see the point.

The point, for me anyways, is holding the coach responsible for the results he is getting.
Yes I understand that finishing 31st yields a higher percentage at the top picks.
We have guys on this team that will be part of our core going forward and they are regressing.
Hold the coach accountable. There is tanking, and there is this. This is not good.

This coach discussion is completely unnecessary and wrong for several reasons. This coach discussion is for fans who do not know much about hockey.

For those who do, the only relevant discussion is the development of the core players.

So discussion in the thread dedicated to Jeff Blashill should be about player development?
And stating opinions about wanting a new coach means you have no hockey knowledge?

Seems legit.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The point, for me anyways, is holding the coach responsible for the results he is getting.
Yes I understand that finishing 31st yields a higher percentage at the top picks.
We have guys on this team that will be part of our core going forward and they are regressing.
Hold the coach accountable. There is tanking, and there is this. This is not good.

I don't fault you for being frustrated and taking little enjoyment from this season. No one takes any real pleasure from seeing the Wings like this. Certain people, however, seem to have a much better grip on the current condition of the team and its true capabilities. Nothing in your posting suggests you are willing to make a cold, hard, objective assessment of this team's players and how they compare to the rest of the league. Your posting suggests you simply think they are entitled to be better because: (a) they are the team that you pull for, and (b) they have had sucess in the past. Step back and take a look at this roster. We have all of one forward who is guaranteed to play in the top six of any other team in the league. One f***ing forward. The vast majority of our "second" line (and Bert who I love) realistically slot into the third line of most good rosters. We are at least a full line behaind everyone in the league. At best we have one defensemen guaranteed to make any other roster in the league. One defensemen. We are currently icing a defense that includes both Dylan McIlrath and Alex Biega. Are you really surprised we give up a lot of goals? We were really, really bad before Dekeyser and Mantha went down and are uncureable without them.

You can keep bitching about coaching all you want, but no matter who you have coaching, water ALWAYS finds its level and teams will ultimately regress to their collective talent. If we fire Blash tomorrow, please do not come on here and complain when we continue to suck. Band aids do you no good in the autopsy room. I understand calling for a coach's head when a team has tuned out a coach and isn't showing up to play and compete. The problem with this team is that even when they do show up and compete, they still give up four or five goals. I can't look at yesterday's effort and proclaim it was a watershed moment that requires Blash's removal. Our margins for error are really, really small because we cannot outplay our mistakes. Our collective talent does not allow it. Yesterday was a prime example.

I also find your comments about regression extremely selective. Yes, we have players who are not playing (or at least producing) as well as they did last year. We also have players like Mantha, Bert and Hronek who have clearly taken steps forward this season. Most individual player developement at serious levels of hockey is actually attributable to the work of assistant coaches but that is a different discussion for a different day. At worst it is a break even proposition.

We are a bad NHL club at the moment and will continue to be very bad for the next couple of seasons. Yes it sucks but it is the truth. If there were quick fixes we wouldn't be in this position to begin with. The team should absolutely let Blash go at the end of the season. Stevie needs to be judicous, however, in any decisions to fire him before then.

 

[MBH]

This coach discussion is completely unnecessary and wrong for several reasons. This coach discussion is for fans who do not know much about hockey.

For those who do, the only relevant discussion is the development of the core players.

"Fans who disagree with me don't know hockey."

 

[MBH]

I don't fault you for being frustrated and taking little enjoyment from this season. No one takes any real pleasure from seeing the Wings like this. Certain people, however, seem to have a much better grip on the current condition of the team and its true capabilities. Nothing in your posting suggests you are willing to make a cold, hard, objective assessment of this team's players and how they compare to the rest of the league. Your posting suggests you simply think they are entitled to be better because: (a) they are the team that you pull for, and (b) they have had sucess in the past. Step back and take a look at this roster. We have all of one forward who is guaranteed to play in the top six of any other team in the league. One ****ing forward. The vast majority of our "second" line (and Bert who I love) realistically slot into the third line of most good rosters. We are at least a full line behaind everyone in the league. At best we have one defensemen guaranteed to make any other roster in the league. One defensemen. We are currently icing a defense that includes both Dylan McIlrath and Alex Biega. Are you really surprised we give up a lot of goals? We were really, really bad before Dekeyser and Mantha went down and are uncureable without them.

You can keep *****ing about coaching all you want, but no matter who you have coaching, water ALWAYS finds its level and teams will ultimately regress to their collective talent. If we fire Blash tomorrow, please do not come on here and complain when we continue to suck. Band aids do you no good in the autopsy room. I understand calling for a coach's head when a team has tuned out a coach and isn't showing up to play and compete. The problem with this team is that even when they do show up and compete, they still give up four or five goals. I can't look at yesterday's effort and proclaim it was a watershed moment that requires Blash's removal. Our margins for error are really, really small because we cannot outplay our mistakes. Our collective talent does not allow it. Yesterday was a prime example.

I also find your comments about regression extremely selective. Yes, we have players who are not playing (or at least producing) as well as they did last year. We also have players like Mantha, Bert and Hronek who have clearly taken steps forward this season. Most individual player developement at serious levels of hockey is actually attributable to the work of assistant coaches but that is a different discussion for a different day. At worst it is a break even proposition.

We are a bad NHL club at the moment and will continue to be very bad for the next couple of seasons. Yes it sucks but it is the truth. If there were quick fixes we wouldn't be in this position to begin with. The team should absolutely let Blash go at the end of the season. Stevie needs to be judicous, however, in any decisions to fire him before then.

Last year - after we traded Nyquist and Jensen and company, and after all the guys went down with injuries - and after Larkin came back - Detroit played some of its best hockey of the year.
With Jake Chelios and Dylan McIlrath and Luke Witkowski in the lineup.
Led by Larkin, AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi etc.

That might not have been sustainable.

What what we're watching now is trash.

Bad teams don't need to lose by nearly two goals a game... That's more than a poor roster. That's a team with a bunch of freelancers doing their own thing.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I don't fault you for being frustrated and taking little enjoyment from this season. No one takes any real pleasure from seeing the Wings like this. Certain people, however, seem to have a much better grip on the current condition of the team and its true capabilities. Nothing in your posting suggests you are willing to make a cold, hard, objective assessment of this team's players and how they compare to the rest of the league. Your posting suggests you simply think they are entitled to be better because: (a) they are the team that you pull for, and (b) they have had sucess in the past. Step back and take a look at this roster. We have all of one forward who is guaranteed to play in the top six of any other team in the league. One ****ing forward. The vast majority of our "second" line (and Bert who I love) realistically slot into the third line of most good rosters. We are at least a full line behaind everyone in the league. At best we have one defensemen guaranteed to make any other roster in the league. One defensemen. We are currently icing a defense that includes both Dylan McIlrath and Alex Biega. Are you really surprised we give up a lot of goals? We were really, really bad before Dekeyser and Mantha went down and are uncureable without them.

You can keep *****ing about coaching all you want, but no matter who you have coaching, water ALWAYS finds its level and teams will ultimately regress to their collective talent. If we fire Blash tomorrow, please do not come on here and complain when we continue to suck. Band aids do you no good in the autopsy room. I understand calling for a coach's head when a team has tuned out a coach and isn't showing up to play and compete. The problem with this team is that even when they do show up and compete, they still give up four or five goals. I can't look at yesterday's effort and proclaim it was a watershed moment that requires Blash's removal. Our margins for error are really, really small because we cannot outplay our mistakes. Our collective talent does not allow it. Yesterday was a prime example.

I also find your comments about regression extremely selective. Yes, we have players who are not playing (or at least producing) as well as they did last year. We also have players like Mantha, Bert and Hronek who have clearly taken steps forward this season. Most individual player developement at serious levels of hockey is actually attributable to the work of assistant coaches but that is a different discussion for a different day. At worst it is a break even proposition.

We are a bad NHL club at the moment and will continue to be very bad for the next couple of seasons. Yes it sucks but it is the truth. If there were quick fixes we wouldn't be in this position to begin with. The team should absolutely let Blash go at the end of the season. Stevie needs to be judicous, however, in any decisions to fire him before then.

Blah, Blah, Blah.

You're creating arguments I've never made, assuming stand points I've never taken.
You've spewed alot of bullshit assumptions about my stance as if they are fact.
Given this I'll assume you are ignorant.

I'll make this simple so you can understand.

Coach is coaching bad. Bad is not good. Fire coach so we can try to be better than bad.
If no work, it ok. Try something we did.
Bad team is bad. Bad team not this bad. Coach is not helping bad team.
Players on bad team are bad. Players on bad team not this bad.
Good draft pick is good. Good players make bad team good.
Coach still bad.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Last year - after we traded Nyquist and Jensen and company, and after all the guys went down with injuries - and after Larkin came back - Detroit played some of its best hockey of the year.
With Jake Chelios and Dylan McIlrath and Luke Witkowski in the lineup.
Led by Larkin, AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi etc.

That might not have been sustainable.

What what we're watching now is trash.

Bad teams don't need to lose by nearly two goals a game... That's more than a poor roster. That's a team with a bunch of freelancers doing their own thing.

You are probably the same type of person who said we shouldn't put any stock into these late season wins because teams weren't playing their hardest against us. Implying that the team wasn't good, but took advantage of circumstances. And now you are holding them to the standard of last year's late stretch.

 

[MBH]

You are probably the same type of person who said we shouldn't put any stock into these late season wins because teams weren't playing their hardest against us. Implying that the team wasn't good, but took advantage of circumstances. And now you are holding them to the standard of last year's late stretch.

I didn't put much stock in them - other than this:
We gave the kids (beyond Larkin) icetime, and they responded and played well...

Sure, the games were meaningless in terms of the standings.

But anytime you give your younger guys more responsibility and they respond, that's a good thing.

I didn't expect that to play. At the time, there were underlying numbers suggesting how unsustainable that play was.

but I didn't expect Dead Wings 2.0.

I hoped that gains by the kids might come close to covering the loss of Nyquist/Kronwall. In the end, I called the Red Wings getting 72 points - town 2 from last year.
I'll concede that was a bit optimistic. But 46 point pace? No f***ing way.

Show me all the people in here who pegged the Wings between 40 and 50 points and having a 159 goal differential.

Of course you fire Blashill. This is not acceptable.
He's coming off 3 straight mediocre years... and now the wheels have totally fallen off.
30 games in we're -53.
We've had a 10-game slump, 8-game slump and 4-game slump.

It's almost unbelievable that people are actually debating this.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

There's bad, and then there's this:

Thirty games into their season, the Wings are in historically bad territory. They have lost 20 games in regulation and their 17 points are the fewest in franchise history through 30 games and the second-fewest in the NHL over the past 20 years. Their goal differential (minus-56) is the worst in the NHL over the past 20 years and second-worst in franchise history.

They rank 31st in goals-for per game (2.1), goals-allowed per game (3.93) and penalty kill (72.6%), and are 26th on the power play (13.8%).

Detroit Red Wings' 30-game start is one of the worst in NHL history

The roster is bad when healthy and the team is currently missing Mantha and Dekeyser, which are big losses. I get it. That being said, they are historically bad. The wheels have come off. Guys are scrambling trying to cover because they don't trust one another. The goals allowed per game is ridiculous. And with a roster of defensive forwards, their PK should not be worst in the league.

(Before anyone says it's not Blashill who coaches the PK, he is ultimately responsible for all coaching decisions and strategies.)

When Larkin smashed his stick on the net and knocked down Ovechkin on the empty net goal, you could see just how demoralized he is. And I'm guessing that goes for much of the team. They've lost 10 in a row. Something needs to change. And sometimes coaches get fired even if only to wake up the team to say "you're playing so terrible right now you got your coach fired."

 

[Obe2kenobe]

I didn't put much stock in them - other than this:
We gave the kids (beyond Larkin) icetime, and they responded and played well...

Sure, the games were meaningless in terms of the standings.

But anytime you give your younger guys more responsibility and they respond, that's a good thing.

I didn't expect that to play. At the time, there were underlying numbers suggesting how unsustainable that play was.

but I didn't expect Dead Wings 2.0.

I hoped that gains by the kids might come close to covering the loss of Nyquist/Kronwall. In the end, I called the Red Wings getting 72 points - town 2 from last year.
I'll concede that was a bit optimistic. But 46 point pace? No ****ing way.

Show me all the people in here who pegged the Wings between 40 and 50 points and having a 159 goal differential.

Of course you fire Blashill. This is not acceptable.
He's coming off 3 straight mediocre years... and now the wheels have totally fallen off.
30 games in we're -53.
We've had a 10-game slump, 8-game slump and 4-game slump.

It's almost unbelievable that people are actually debating this.

The wheels have definitely come off.
We've been outscored 21-5 the last 6 games. Winless the last 10. The guys are starting to look demoralized. Blashill doesn't deserve all the blame obviously. But he's the one at the helm (no pun intended) of this ship. And he doesn't seem to know how to steer it anymore.

 

[vladdy16]

At the risk of coming on too strong...

Any discussion that doesn't start, and generally revolve around the shape that the defense is in, through no fault of the coach, is completely delusional, knee jerk nonsense.

I mean, there's a lot of walls of text around here, that don't seem to consider how atrocious Green and Daleys condition is, how brutal Boweys hockey sense is, how far from the NHL McIlrath, Hicketts and Biega should be. And how much we are relying on, but also trying to ease the burden on Hronek and Cholwoski. And how much we miss a healthy 65 and 22 as a result.

That's the 'historically' bad part. The coach might not be helping, but 'historically bad' would be a par with our defense, and it makes no sense not to acknowledge that, other than deluding yourself into thinking greener pastures are nearer than they actually are.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I didn't put much stock in them - other than this:
We gave the kids (beyond Larkin) icetime, and they responded and played well...

Sure, the games were meaningless in terms of the standings.

But anytime you give your younger guys more responsibility and they respond, that's a good thing.

I didn't expect that to play. At the time, there were underlying numbers suggesting how unsustainable that play was.

but I didn't expect Dead Wings 2.0.

I hoped that gains by the kids might come close to covering the loss of Nyquist/Kronwall. In the end, I called the Red Wings getting 72 points - town 2 from last year.
I'll concede that was a bit optimistic. But 46 point pace? No ****ing way.

Show me all the people in here who pegged the Wings between 40 and 50 points and having a 159 goal differential.

Of course you fire Blashill. This is not acceptable.
He's coming off 3 straight mediocre years... and now the wheels have totally fallen off.
30 games in we're -53.
We've had a 10-game slump, 8-game slump and 4-game slump.

It's almost unbelievable that people are actually debating this.

You do realize why we are -53 in goal differential? We don't suppress quality shots as well as other teams, and this largely can be attributed to quality of defensemen playing, which is at an all time low due to the amount of man games lost. We have had 3 players, regardless of position, play in each and every game this season. Green, Dekeyser, Daley, Nemeth and Hronek have combined for 57 missed games. With a league low team save percentage (below league average by 2.6%) and a second to league low shooting percentage, they have the league's worst PDO. They have the league high opponents high danger conversion percentage, and a league low self high danger conversion percentage. A league low PK% influenced by the above.

These are the things that coincide with a massive goal differential, and you know what Blashill doesn't have control over? He doesn't control the health of his team. He doesn't control the goalies ability (or inability) to stop pucks, especially the most dangerous ones. He doesn't control his players ability (or inability) to prevent those scoring chances; he doesn't control their inability put the puck in the net, especially the most dangerous opportunities. At the end of the day, all of those things come down to circumstance of health and talent on the roster.

You of all people should know how circumstances rule all. Athanasiou statistically looks the exact same in almost every way as he has in the past. TOI is on track, Corsi or Fenwick are on track, zone starts are on track. His personal shooting percentage is down, but the team on-ice shooting percentage tracks. What is the substantial difference with AA's stat line this year? The minus statistic. What is the substantial difference with Athanasiou on the ice this year? The defense and goalies behind him. Those two things are tied together, and the on-ice save percentage being 15% below his career average is the proof in the pudding.

You are here almost daily with your pitchfork and torch, proclaiming that this is unacceptable and Blashill needs to be fired, and I can gladly shoot you down repeatedly, but the reality of the situation is that you or I don't get to decide what is acceptable or unacceptable. If Yzerman thought that any of this was unacceptable, we would have seen change. If at any point in time he makes that determination, we will see the change. The fact that we don't have even a little hint of displeasure from the GM even through these performances, leads me believe that we are all going to have to listen to you complain for a full 82 game season (and even if he is fired, we will probably still have to listen to it), because you are the smartest guy in the room. And the reason I am fairly confident in that assessment is because Yzerman has shown us where his displeasure and emphasis is being placed. He did so with the Regula for Perlini trade, the De La Rose for Fabbri trade, the Saarijarvi for Comrie trade. He is addressing the talent on the roster when shit hits the fan and the team goes on a big losing skid, not the coaching staff.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Last year - after we traded Nyquist and Jensen and company, and after all the guys went down with injuries - and after Larkin came back - Detroit played some of its best hockey of the year.
With Jake Chelios and Dylan McIlrath and Luke Witkowski in the lineup.
Led by Larkin, AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi etc.

That might not have been sustainable.

What what we're watching now is trash.

Bad teams don't need to lose by nearly two goals a game... That's more than a poor roster. That's a team with a bunch of freelancers doing their own thing.

Ah yes John, the end of the regular season. Where the bad teams have their minds on Cabo, the good teams are going through the motions and resting players for a long stretch run and gamesheets are chalked full of AHL call-ups and kids graduating from juniors and the college ranks. Do you know why Taro Hirose put up seven points in ten games? Because he wasn't facing fully stocked and relatively healthy NHL rosters. You didn't need to be Scotty Bowman to see this coming. Now he can't even crack the lineup of the worst team in the league. It wasn't that long ago that the Wings would hardly show up for the last dozen games of the season. My my how we quickly forget such luxuries.

Quite honestly I wouldn't mind Blash being fired tomorrow. While the results won't change (nor the line combinations), the excuses will.

 

[MBH]

At the risk of coming on too strong...

Any discussion that doesn't start, and generally revolve around the shape that the defense is in, through no fault of the coach, is completely delusional, knee jerk nonsense.

I mean, there's a lot of walls of text around here, that don't seem to consider how atrocious Green and Daleys condition is, how brutal Boweys hockey sense is, how far from the NHL McIlrath, Hicketts and Biega should be. And how much we are relying on, but also trying to ease the burden on Hronek and Cholwoski. And how much we miss a healthy 65 and 22 as a result.

That's the 'historically' bad part. The coach might not be helping, but 'historically bad' would be a par with our defense, and it makes no sense not to acknowledge that, other than deluding yourself into thinking greener pastures are nearer than they actually are.

Our defense was awful last year.
You're not going to tell me that Kronwall is the reason for a .70 increase in goals against, are you?
When we went on a tear late last season, we did so with McIlrath, Chelios, Bowey, Kuffner, Frk, Hirose, Turgeon, Puempel, Witkowski, Ehn and other minor leaguers in the lineup

 

[plymouthmi]

Our defense was awful last year.
You're not going to tell me that Kronwall is the reason for a .70 increase in goals against, are you?
When we went on a tear late last season, we did so with McIlrath, Chelios, Bowey, Kuffner, Frk, Hirose, Turgeon, Puempel, Witkowski, Ehn and other minor leaguers in the lineup

Well, it doesn't account for all in the GA increase but I absolutely think no Kronwall AND no Dekeyser affects things.

 

[Oddbob]

I don't get why people are so opposed to a coaching change, I really don't. You don't think Larkin and company are going to get tired of the same message 5+ years deep with the team losing all the time? At the very least a new coach brings in a fresh take, gives the players a reprieve from the same crappy message as before, and also a new coach might try things that get certain players to at least compete harder. It may not lead to more wins, but even really bad teams don't lose 5-0 and 6-1 all the time, like we do, and there have been far worse rosters on paper than ours. Larkin is already visibly frustrated, how much more will he take until he breaks of his hardworking effort that he gives almost every night.

Also, the opposed ones throwing out things like, you mean like hire Babcock or Peters, is a really asinine thing to say, as if anyone actually wants those two or that they are the only two to hire. There is a whole field of coaches in junior, AHL, that can be hired right now. Where did people get this thing that you can't hire currently hired coaches from? Sheldon Keefe just a week or two ago went from the AHL to the NHL, and Dale Hunter went from the OHL to the NHL mid season. It happens all the time.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Sheldon Keefe just a week or two ago went from the AHL to the NHL, and Dale Hunter went from the OHL to the NHL mid season. It happens all the time.

You cite an internal promotion and one instance of someone making that jump, who doesn’t even have a full NHL season of coaching on his resume. But yeah, it happens all the time.

 

[Dotter]

Anyone else thinking Mike Babcock is starting to look mighty tempting?