News Article: JC says veterans have right attitude

[b1e9a8r5s]

I certainly don't understand the love the new coach is getting (here and other places). Doesn't he have to do SOMETHING positive first?

The games I've seen have been a fiasco (and they're becoming fewer and fewer). For large stretches everyone looks like they're skating around in circles cluelessly, especially on defense.

I can't perceive a single positive thing he's done. When his coaching starts to impact the team in a better way he'll have my full support.

There's a difference between "love" and reserving judgement because it's only been 16 (i think) games. I'm certainly in the camp of the latter.

 

[Hawkaholic]

There are times they don't, situations where a majority of players disagree with the coach, or where they don't get along, or where the message starts to ring hollow(like I think happened with this group and Q). But the majority of the time, I'd say the players respect their coach/coaches. I know I did, at all levels I played at. And most my teammates did, also.

Yeah, depends on the coach. I know I had a coach in Bantam I refused to play for. I went and played for the B team instead because I knew I wasn't going to have any fun playing for said coach.

Also, if the players feel like they aren't learning anything new, or if they think they know more than a coach who is younger than him they may not respect them. There are a lot of egos in hockey.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Yeah, depends on the coach. I know I had a coach in Bantam I refused to play for. I went and played for the B team instead because I knew I wasn't going to have any fun playing for said coach.

Also, if the players feel like they aren't learning anything new, or if they think they know more than a coach who is younger than him they may not respect them. There are a lot of egos in hockey.

We all have one. Mine was in Peewee.

 

[Blackhawks]

That's your evidence? I liked a post? ......

He has made some bad moves and bad signings. Yes. All GMs do at one point or another. He's also made good ones too. I think he has done more good than bad, overall. His trades the last couple years have been more bad than good(although I like this Strome/Perlini trade and the Murphy trade). He drafts extremely well, and always has. Where do I make excuses for him in that opinion/view? I don't make excuses, I just tell it like it is. I'm able to be objective.

How Can you say you are being objective when being illogical? Your team is the worst team in the league with no real promise of change, the GM has brought the team to its knees and you still say he has brought more good than bad? If that’s not the opposite of objective and speaking out of homerism I don’t know what is.

 

[ChiHawks10]

How Can you say you are being objective when being illogical? Your team is the worst team in the league with no real promise of change, the GM has brought the team to its knees and you still say he has brought more good than bad? If that’s not the opposite of objective and speaking out of homerism I don’t know what is.

The team is in last place right now...sure I don't believe they will be this way for very long. It's pretty obvious they're rebuilding/retooling/whatever you want to call it. No real promise of change? Do you not follow the drafting and prospects at all? Don't know why I even asked that when it's questionable if you even watch the games the majority of the time... Do you not realize how much cap space they have going into next season? Nothing I've said paints me as being a homer...

He has been GM for 10 years. He has done a great job through 7 years of that 10 year tenure, and he has been average/below average for 2-3 years of it, IMO. The Hawks won 3 Cups in that initial 7 year time frame I'm speaking to... I'd say he has done more good than bad, yeah. You may want to look up the definition of objective... and logical/illogical... and homerism...

 

[Panzerspitze]

The problem may not and probably isn't Colliton at all when it comes to the Vets. I believe they are very unhappy with Bowman and other upper managment which is affecting their play. If I were one of the vets, I would feel the same way. Managment has screwed with us the team and I'm going to screw with them. It seems obvious that the Core of vets is not happy with management which I don't blame them. What has Bowman done to make them happy and encourage them to play their best? Nothing!! No one can tell me that the core aren't very discouraged right now.

You mean all those [over-priced] long-term contracts and NTC/NMCs from management couldn't please those pampered vets?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

How Can you say you are being objective when being illogical? Your team is the worst team in the league with no real promise of change, the GM has brought the team to its knees and you still say he has brought more good than bad? If that’s not the opposite of objective and speaking out of homerism I don’t know what is.

This is the reason you disagree with so many other posters. It's not that they're blindly following Bowman, it's that they believe there is promise of a turnaround due to the young players in the system.

It's not because of faith in Bowman. It's because of faith in Jokiharju, faith in Adam Boqvist, faith in Ian Mitchell, faith in Nicholas Beaudin. Not faith that any of them will singlehandedly be a savior, but that the group will combine to become a strong defensive core for many years to come.

Add that into a top-5 pick this year, and Alex DeBrincat, and you have your new core. Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane will play supporting roles to these guys when this team competes again.

Could this whole idea fall apart and this franchise remain in the cellar for another decade? Absolutely, it's sports and that shit happens all the time.

That's the outlook many people are looking at, it's not a "we'll be fine because we have Stan" outlook. If Stan didn't have these defensemen, he would've been out the door with Q IMO.

 

[ChiHawk21]

I don't agree. The coach is the coach. Period. Whether playing peewee hockey, high school hockey, college/juniors, or pros. The coach is the coach. And you respect your coach. That doesn't just change because you age... You think these guys alter what was beaten into their brain since they were 4 or 5 years old just because they get older?

Sure, they may talk to their coach differently, they may offer more input, and/or challenge the coach on things. But they still respect him as the coach... Anyone who has played competitive sports would know this...

just not true imo. so we disagree and move on from there.

in an ideal world yes this would be the case. in reality i dont think it is.

 

[BK]

This is the reason you disagree with so many other posters. It's not that they're blindly following Bowman, it's that they believe there is promise of a turnaround due to the young players in the system.

It's not because of faith in Bowman. It's because of faith in Jokiharju, faith in Adam Boqvist, faith in Ian Mitchell, faith in Nicholas Beaudin. Not faith that any of them will singlehandedly be a savior, but that the group will combine to become a strong defensive core for many years to come.

Add that into a top-5 pick this year, and Alex DeBrincat, and you have your new core. Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane will play supporting roles to these guys when this team competes again.

Could this whole idea fall apart and this franchise remain in the cellar for another decade? Absolutely, it's sports and that **** happens all the time.

That's the outlook many people are looking at, it's not a "we'll be fine because we have Stan" outlook. If Stan didn't have these defensemen, he would've been out the door with Q IMO.

This is pretty accurate and logical.

Do I have faith Bowman will help with the rebuild? Yes due to his drafting and ability to find other talent in Europe but most of my faith is in who we have coming. This is not blindly following because I have openly stated he can’t make a Seabrook mistake ever again and he has to make the right FA signing. He was the one who pushed for Hossa remember. I think he will/has learned from his mistakes.

Anyone who thinks this team could still be a contender does not understand how Father Time works. Having AP and TT does not fix Keith aging, Hammer falling off, and whatever Seabrook has become.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Anyone who thinks this team could still be a contender does not understand how Father Time works. Having AP and TT does not fix Keith aging, Hammer falling off, and whatever Seabrook has become.

True, but having them means we could have traded them for a top 4 Dman instead of including one in a deal as a sweetener, and trading the other for a guy who is a 40-50pt winger.

 

[BK]

True, but having them means we could have traded them for a top 4 Dman instead of including one in a deal as a sweetener, and trading the other for a guy who is a 40-50pt winger.

Maybe but I have my doubts.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Maybe but I have my doubts.

Panarin could've gotten us a young top-4 D. Hanafin and Hamilton were traded just this offseason, I'd imagine both teams would've considered Panarin.

 

[BK]

Panarin could've gotten us a young top-4 D. Hanafin and Hamilton were traded just this offseason, I'd imagine both teams would've considered Panarin.

But then we are out of Panarin.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

But then we are out of Panarin.

You mean Saad?

 

[BK]

You mean Saad?

No. Panarin.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

No. Panarin.

Wait, I must be confused on what you were talking about. Sorry.

I thought you guys were talking about the return could've been better for Panarin.

 

[BobbyJet]

The narrative prior to last season contained words to the effect " Hawks window will close soon. We need to win again soon while the core is still relatively young".

That has morphed to: "Anyone who thinks this team could still be a contender does not understand how Father Time works."

Fact is the window had closed by 2016 despite K/T still in their primes. Stan ploddingly has brought this team to its knees to become the worst in the NHL but the denials continue.

 

[BK]

The narrative prior to last season contained words to the effect " Hawks window will close soon. We need to win again soon while the core is still relatively young".

That has morphed to: "Anyone who thinks this team could still be a contender does not understand how Father Time works."

Fact is the window had closed by 2016 despite K/T still in their primes. Stan ploddingly has brought this team to its knees to become the worst in the NHL but the denials continue.

That was never my narrative so you can stop right there with that.

For hardons lasting for more that 4 hours you should consult a trained medical professional.

 

[BK]

Wait, I must be confused on what you were talking about. Sorry.

I thought you guys were talking about the return could've been better for Panarin.

I mean if we traded AP for a top 4 d then we are out on Panarin.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The narrative prior to last season contained words to the effect " Hawks window will close soon. We need to win again soon while the core is still relatively young".

That has morphed to: "Anyone who thinks this team could still be a contender does not understand how Father Time works."

Fact is the window had closed by 2016 despite K/T still in their primes. Stan ploddingly has brought this team to its knees to become the worst in the NHL but the denials continue.

Both of those things can be true.

Father Time was eating away at the core, and the window for them to carry a championship team was quickly closing. You had two options at the time, sell off every asset and load the team with as much short-term talent as possible, but know that the franchise will be hot garbage for a decade, or go through a soft rebuild.

Stan chose option 2.

This allowed the marketing team to still feign being competitive, but allowed the franchise to hang onto Jokijaru, Mitchell, DeBrincat and picks.

Most of us want to win now and realized the window to win now was rapidly slamming shut, so that's why a lot of posters had a sense of desperation.

 

[BobbyJet]

That was never my narrative so you can stop right there with that.

For hardons lasting for more that 4 hours you should consult a trained medical professional.

Lovely deflection.

 

[BK]

Lovely deflection.

It would be deflection if I didn’t already answer your first comment.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I mean if we traded AP for a top 4 d then we are out on Panarin.

We don't have Panarin now, or a young and established top-4 D.

I must not have read back far enough and you guys must be arguing about something else. Again, thought it was about the return in the Panarin trade.

 

[BK]

We don't have Panarin now, or a young and established top-4 D.

I must not have read back far enough and you guys must be arguing about something else. Again, thought it was about the return in the Panarin trade.

Oh I was talking about if he was not traded in the first place.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Oh I was talking about if he was not traded in the first place.

Ya, figured we were talking about different things. My fault for jumping in late and not reading all the way back.