"Janssen +" the plus would be much different for Bailey then it would be for Porcello.
Blue Jays Discussion: Jays Sign Dan Johnson, Can He Save Toronto's Season?
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"Janssen +" the plus would be much different for Bailey then it would be for Porcello.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Man Bear Pig
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Nasty Nazem
Come at me Crow!
Actually, its kinda plausible when you look at previous deals and see the absurd returns for relievers.
Do I think it will happen? Nope because I am sure Cinci has enough money to sign some relievers -- especially if they trade Phillips.
Man Bear Pig
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It's not plausible at all when you factor in how much more starters are worth. Look at what we gave up for Santos vs what we gave up for Dickey. Yes, Dickey was a Cy young winner but given his advanced age, it certainly lessened his value. The only time starters come at a reasonable cost is when there's a significant amount of risk involved, like the Morrow for League trade. Starters are worth quite a bit more.
Nasty Nazem
Come at me Crow!
- Brandon League + mediocre prospect (Chavez) for Morrow.
- Frank Francisco for Napoli (I cried as I typed that)
- Mark Melancon for Jed Lowrie and Kyle Weiland
- Esmil Rogers for Mike Aviles and Gomes *sobs*
- Andrew Bailey (struggling with injuries ala Santos at the time) + Sweeney for Reddick and two minor league players
I think there are more but this is what I've been able to come up off the top of my head. Basically, trade your valued relievers because they generate a big return for some reason.
- Frank Francisco for Napoli (I cried as I typed that)
- Mark Melancon for Jed Lowrie and Kyle Weiland
- Esmil Rogers for Mike Aviles and Gomes *sobs*
- Andrew Bailey (struggling with injuries ala Santos at the time) + Sweeney for Reddick and two minor league players
I think there are more but this is what I've been able to come up off the top of my head. Basically, trade your valued relievers because they generate a big return for some reason.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Nestor Molina was like our #2 prospect at the time.
Didn't we get EJax for Jason Frasor + Stewart and then flip him + relievers for Rasmus?
Nasty Nazem
Come at me Crow!
Dickey also came with an extension though but I see your point. I'm not gonna disagree with it but just that, relievers do get a big return and I think you can get a starter out of that -- maybe not Bailey since he is valued quite a bit but yeah, maybe if there is some risk involved or the starter is coming off a mediocre season. Bailey value will probably never be higher.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
Man Bear Pig
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Number two prospect when we had a horrid farm system, he was in single A I believe and only had one pitch. And St.Louis couldn't wait to get rid of Rasmus, let's not forget how crummy he was his first two years here. Suddenly, his WAR made a dramatic leap and his defense became twice as good. It was a deal that worked out, luckily for us.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
Nasty Nazem
Come at me Crow!
Man is Amaro a terrible GM. Really, 3 years/26M for Ruiz. A soon to be 35 year old coming off a down season gets 3 years?
Me thinks Russell Martin will get paid next winter.
Me thinks Russell Martin will get paid next winter.
Man Bear Pig
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Morrow was a reliever himself at the time I believe? Kind of a pain to sort through the stats on my phone. He was drafted high, was a starter, then a closer I think. The Napoli deal was simply an awful deal, I cannot defend that one. Low ride improved drastically IIRC as well. Rogers was pretty bad himself and Reddicks numbers also improved dramatically post-trade. The point I'm making is that in almost every instance the players received in return for the relievers started having career years, it's 20/20
He has probably the worst contract in baseball in Ryan Howard on his team, too.
The point is that most of these guys possessed some kind of upside. See: Rasmus, Morrow, Reddick, Napoli, etc. While, on the other hand, the relievers were traded when their value was at its all time high, or were on the verge of becoming overpaid. If given these circumstances, as the Jays could be in now (i.e., a deal around Porcello for Janssen), they should take it.
An interesting question would be: how many relievers\closers who were traded, actually worked out?
The point is that most of these guys possessed some kind of upside. See: Rasmus, Morrow, Reddick, Napoli, etc. While, on the other hand, the relievers were traded when their value was at its all time high, or were on the verge of becoming overpaid. If given these circumstances, as the Jays could be in now (i.e., a deal around Porcello for Janssen), they should take it.
An interesting question would be: how many relievers\closers who were traded, actually worked out?
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
Makes me think the Blue Jays should attempt to buy low on Miguel Montero. After the Chooch contract, Saltalamacchia and McCann are going to get paid. Montero's $12m for four more years will look like a discount in comparison.
topched
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Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Molina was an FSL All-Star who was added to the 40 man roster that year. Yeah, his splitter was really his only pitch, but he had elite command. All of us were probably really well aware that he was not going to be what he was touted as (good #3 pitcher) but it was still a lot to give up for a reliever at the time.
Man Bear Pig
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Both would be huge upgrades(assuming Montero bounces back to his 4 WAR seasons). The cost would be crazy though. You'd have to gut the farm again while adding more payroll and without even adding a starter.
Athletics have been using this strategy for quite some time to turn quality relievers into guys like Reddick and Lowrie. Don't see why Jannsen couldn't be traded for a young starter with upside (ala Porcello).
I think he would be worth a deal around Janssen, and would be an awesome addition to our rotation.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
From recent deals, only one that really jumps out to me is Steve Delabar. It never really makes sense to trade valuable assets for relievers because you can find them on the waiver wire/in free agency. However, teams still trade for these big names and they just never seem to work out.
That's assuming the Diamondbacks would be interested in selling low on Montero. In all fairness we did make a trade of a struggling Aaron Hill + John Macdonald for Kelly Johnson, so maybe they'd be a little more open to the idea.
I like your thinking though.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
Aaron will be 32 when Spring Training breaks. I don't know how comfortable I am paying him $11.67m into his age 35 season. I do love him though.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
DBacks are looking for a bat behind Goldschmidt. I wouldn't mind taking Bradley off their hands.
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