Player Discussion Jay Beagle

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Sorry this is where we disagree, you don’t have to overpay for anything, if a player is going to be overpaid (and you agree he is) you walk away from it.

Is beagle the only player that can provide leadership or show players how to be professionals?

Even if he’s suffering from lingering effects of a broken forearm you haven’t shown how winning one additional faceoff (over someone at 50%) every 2 games is worth overpaying for

There is nothing that forced benning to overpay for beagle, if he wanted to upgrade the bottom 6 there were other players that he could have signed.
The Canucks valued Beagle...obviously enough to outbid all the other GM's that wanted him as well...I think that there's a little more to him than a 33 year old 4th line plug.

Players are going to get overpaid in free agency....fact of life.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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So explain to me how putting a 1 million 4th line center would differ from a 3 million 4th line center. The big difference is what the expectation is aka playoffs or not. Signing beagle was a move to push for the playoffs this year not a move for the playoffs/cup when they might have a chance in 3/4 years

You are free to draw your own conclusions and I don't necessarily disagree with them except that I think you're oversimplying. When Gillis first got here, he quickly signed Hordichuk and Johnson to solidify the 4th line. Some rebuilding teams run everything barebones and lock up their young core players early. Most rebuilding teams actually have plenty of cap room. The Canucks have the 6th most cap space of any NHL team currently. My guess is that the team lost the Sedins and are likely to field a pretty young team and wanted to add some veterans who won't take away opportunities from players like Petterson.
 

thekernel

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Apr 11, 2011
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Y'all need to listen to Beagle's appearance on the 31 Thoughts podcast. You get a glimmer of just how important he is to a locker room. It's important to have guys like that that can, yknow, actually offer something to the team on-ice as well. Our PK is a shambling corpse without him, for example...
 
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Cupless44

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Jun 25, 2014
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Mid season Report Card

Jay Beagle, C

2018-19 statistics: 21GP, 1G-3A-4P

Grade: D

The Jay Beagle era is going about as well as I thought it would when the Canucks signed him a to a four-year contract for $12-million this summer. They control fewer than 40 percent of the shots at 5-on-5, fewer than 43 percent of the expected goals and only 46 percent of the goals. It’s grim. And the four points that Beagle has through these first twenty-plus games don’t exactly make up for it.
Some relief arises upon taking a glance at Beagle’s penalty kill numbers. The 61 unblocked shots that the Canucks surrender per hour when Beagle is killing penalties is the second-lowest rate on the Canucks, second to only Bo Horvat. The micro-data that my Athletic Vancouver colleague Harman Dayal has tracked from Canucks’ penalty kills paints those contributions in a much less flattering light, but it’s still something.
 
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mathonwy

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Jan 21, 2008
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Surely there are fancy stats out there that can paint a more objective picture of the subject in question.

Admittedly I'm not watching as close as I used to as every time I do, I also have the misfortune of having to watch Granlund which causes a sharp spike of irritation when it happens but from what I've seen so far, Beagle has been a very effective 4th liner for us that consistently causes the opponent lots of problems when he's forechecking.

Culture carrying ability (which he has no control over) and obscene term (which Jimbo gave and he didn't dictate) aside, is Beagle doing a good job for us?

(and don't call me Shirley)
 
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thekernel

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
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Mid season Report Card

Jay Beagle, C

2018-19 statistics: 21GP, 1G-3A-4P

Grade: D

The Jay Beagle era is going about as well as I thought it would when the Canucks signed him a to a four-year contract for $12-million this summer. They control fewer than 40 percent of the shots at 5-on-5, fewer than 43 percent of the expected goals and only 46 percent of the goals. It’s grim. And the four points that Beagle has through these first twenty-plus games don’t exactly make up for it.
Some relief arises upon taking a glance at Beagle’s penalty kill numbers. The 61 unblocked shots that the Canucks surrender per hour when Beagle is killing penalties is the second-lowest rate on the Canucks, second to only Bo Horvat. The micro-data that my Athletic Vancouver colleague Harman Dayal has tracked from Canucks’ penalty kills paints those contributions in a much less flattering light, but it’s still something.
What is "only 46 percent of the goals" over a 21 game stretch even mean? Like, 6 out of 11 goals? Terrible analysis (not directed at the poster)
 
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4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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-The Canucks don't have a top heavy salary structure (yet),...$3m per is $600K above the league average.
Jay Beagle isn't a league average player. He's a 4th liner. I brought this up to you in the Gaudette thread. No other teams seem to spend close to the league average on their 4th line.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Jay Beagle isn't a league average player. He's a 4th liner. I brought this up to you in the Gaudette thread. No other teams seem to spend close to the league average on their 4th line.
Benning decided to bolster his bottom 6...Most teams spend most of their cash on the top 6 or D....So Benning went against the grain a bit....Are there rules about how much you pay a player according to what line he plays on..?.Has this strategy failed?...(as we're flirting with a wildcard spot).

The amount of money allotted to players is a problem,.. if its a problem...and its not a problem.

Again,...most teams have a top heavy salary structure, we currently do not.....When that time comes, and eventually it will, there will be plenty of expiring contracts,trades and other moves that will happen to facilitate paying our top players.
 
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VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Y'all need to listen to Beagle's appearance on the 31 Thoughts podcast. You get a glimmer of just how important he is to a locker room. It's important to have guys like that that can, yknow, actually offer something to the team on-ice as well. Our PK is a shambling corpse without him, for example...
Taking nothing away from Beagle, but I'm more than a little tired of the refrain that while a guy may suck on the ice, "he's great in the room". That's the same thing they keep saying about Gudbranson.

Unfortunately they don't play hockey in a dressing-room. It's played on a 200 x 85 ice sheet. And in a couple of more years that Beagle contract will be like having an anvil for a life-line.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Taking nothing away from Beagle, but I'm more than a little tired of the refrain that while a guy may suck on the ice, "he's great in the room". That's the same thing they keep saying about Gudbranson.

Unfortunately they don't play hockey in a dressing-room. It's played on a 200 x 85 ice sheet. And in a couple of more years that Beagle contract will be like having an anvil for a life-line.
More doomsaying from you ,I'm assuming..?...That $3M salary is going to be an absolute killer..
 

Peter10

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Dec 7, 2003
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Benning decided to bolster his bottom 6...Most teams spend most of their cash on the top 6 or D....So Benning went against the grain a bit....Are there rules about how much you pay a player according to what line he plays on..?.Has this strategy failed?...(as we're flirting with a wildcard spot).

The amount of money allotted to players is a problem,.. if its a problem...and its not a problem.

Again,...most teams have a top heavy salary structure, we currently do not.....When that time comes, and eventually it will, there will be plenty of expiring contracts,trades and other moves that will happen to facilitate paying our top players.

There arent, it is just that it shows the difference between good and bad management decisions. And yes that strategy has failed because they are only "flirting with a wildcard spot" because of a terrible division, Markström running hot for a month and a 20y super rookie carrying the corpses of half the roster which cant to squat without him. This team would be in a similar position with cheaper options instead of Beagle, Schaller, Roussel and Eriksson and what not. However, it would look much different if you swap out Pettersson for your average first round pick rookie.
 

thekernel

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Apr 11, 2011
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Taking nothing away from Beagle, but I'm more than a little tired of the refrain that while a guy may suck on the ice, "he's great in the room". That's the same thing they keep saying about Gudbranson.

Unfortunately they don't play hockey in a dressing-room. It's played on a 200 x 85 ice sheet. And in a couple of more years that Beagle contract will be like having an anvil for a life-line.
No, really, listen to the podcast. And also, read what I said.
 

PG Canuck

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Mar 29, 2010
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The Canucks valued Beagle...obviously enough to outbid all the other GM's that wanted him as well...I think that there's a little more to him than a 33 year old 4th line plug.

Players are going to get overpaid in free agency....fact of life.

Good luck building a Cup contender that way, which is what Benning is trying to do and which is a good reason we are in such a dire situation.

2011 SCF team didn't lean on Free Agency as a crutch.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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Good luck building a Cup contender that way, which is what Benning is trying to do and which is a good reason we are in such a dire situation.

2011 SCF team didn't lean on Free Agency as a crutch.
What dire situation..?.. Great new players, more coming in...Watching exciting hockey again...Capspace...but,oh..the drama..

When you've already inherited a core of franchise and elite players, generally you dont really have to do that much shopping.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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There arent, it is just that it shows the difference between good and bad management decisions. And yes that strategy has failed because they are only "flirting with a wildcard spot" because of a terrible division, Markström running hot for a month and a 20y super rookie carrying the corpses of half the roster which cant to squat without him. This team would be in a similar position with cheaper options instead of Beagle, Schaller, Roussel and Eriksson and what not. However, it would look much different if you swap out Pettersson for your average first round pick rookie.
Only close to a wildcard spot because we're in a weak division?..Are'nt we supposed to be bottom consensus 5 team..?
Only doing well because of a Markstrom hot streak, and EP?...Last time I checked, both players played for the Vancouver Canucks
This team would be better with cheaper options ( Gaunce,Archibald etc..?) on it, than Beagle,Roussel,Eriksson and whatnot..?..I get Eriksson,but disagree on the rest..,but ok.
Very bitter post....
 
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Fire Benning

diaper filled piss baby
Oct 2, 2016
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As was mentioned in the management thread, Beagle was signed to free up EP to produce and not get exposed in the D zone, fast forward to today and EP is starting to get tired out by being forced to carry the load of the team. Beagle has 1 goal on a goalie and the Canucks score 34% of the goals at 5-on-5 with him on the ice. Such a waste of a signing, would've been better to just throw that money at a competent free agent defenseman like Calvin De Haan and have Gaunce fill Beagle's role for significantly cheaper.
 

Hockey Nebula

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Jan 10, 2019
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I've been thinking about Beagle a lot lately, and how GMs try to build teams, and how fans can miss important things sometimes.

To a fan's perspective, what happens on the ice is pretty much all that matters. Goals, saves, points, and of course, wins. It should be obvious that GMs see that as the most important thing too, because without wins they get fired. But there's something that can be difficult for us fans to understand, because we don't really see it, while GMs and Coaches do see it.

What happens on the ice during games, the part fans see, is only a tiny part in the life of a hockey team, and Beagle was signed not only for his contribution on the ice, but for his contribution behind the scenes.

In my line of work, a crew of all young guys just can't cut it. They do great when things are going well, and their youthful enthusiasm is a vital part of a successful crew. But when some kind of serious adversity comes along, I look at my veteran guys to lead us out of it. The vets don't overreact, they just keep going. They stay calm in the face of adversity. They also know how to prepare themselves and how to be consistent. They don't waver, and maybe most importantly, they don't bitch and complain, which can become contagious. The vets set the tone for the entire crew. And guess what? That's what people often call "culture."

I'm not in the hockey business, but there are parallels between any team of people working on an objective together. A team requires leadership and experienced people.

Analyzing Beagle's contribution by on-ice in-game stats only will always leave you disappointed. If you watch how he behaves during the games, on the bench, between whistles, he knows exactly what he's doing. He intervenes and interposes himself when rookies are unsure how to deal with aggression from the other team, for instance. He doesn't fight; that's not what I'm talking about. He doesn't need to.

But if you can imagine being a young guy who finally gets a call up to the NHL, how helpful it must be to have a veteran like him around. Veterans keep a lid on things, direct young players in the right direction, set good habits when it comes to approaching games, travelling, working with trainers and coaches, all those little things that are invisible to fans.

I'm a fan of Beagles because I watch how he behaves, not just when the puck's on his stick or when he's killing penalties, but because of all the little things that players like EP, Brock, and even Horvat, just don't know how to do yet.

So that's my essay on Beagle.

I don't like the 4th year of his contract, but I doubt it will matter much in the long run. His salary won't be much once the cap has gone up for 4 years. He won't be blocking any younger players, and he'll still be contributing as the "old man" on the team.

Players like Beagle aren't going to change the outcome directly on the score sheet. It's up to Benning to draft and develop the scoring talent that the Canucks need. And as he does, our middling players will be pushed out of the lineup. Bye-bye Granlund, Spooner, and whoever else is just a useful placeholder for now.

But as the team gets younger and younger, and hopefully more talented, Beagle will still have value.

People that don't like him are dead set against him, and that's fine. They're right that he doesn't score much.

But nobody expected him to score a ton. That's not his role.
 

Peter10

Registered User
Dec 7, 2003
4,193
5,042
Germany
I've been thinking about Beagle a lot lately, and how GMs try to build teams, and how fans can miss important things sometimes.

To a fan's perspective, what happens on the ice is pretty much all that matters. Goals, saves, points, and of course, wins. It should be obvious that GMs see that as the most important thing too, because without wins they get fired. But there's something that can be difficult for us fans to understand, because we don't really see it, while GMs and Coaches do see it.

What happens on the ice during games, the part fans see, is only a tiny part in the life of a hockey team, and Beagle was signed not only for his contribution on the ice, but for his contribution behind the scenes.

In my line of work, a crew of all young guys just can't cut it. They do great when things are going well, and their youthful enthusiasm is a vital part of a successful crew. But when some kind of serious adversity comes along, I look at my veteran guys to lead us out of it. The vets don't overreact, they just keep going. They stay calm in the face of adversity. They also know how to prepare themselves and how to be consistent. They don't waver, and maybe most importantly, they don't ***** and complain, which can become contagious. The vets set the tone for the entire crew. And guess what? That's what people often call "culture."

I'm not in the hockey business, but there are parallels between any team of people working on an objective together. A team requires leadership and experienced people.

Analyzing Beagle's contribution by on-ice in-game stats only will always leave you disappointed. If you watch how he behaves during the games, on the bench, between whistles, he knows exactly what he's doing. He intervenes and interposes himself when rookies are unsure how to deal with aggression from the other team, for instance. He doesn't fight; that's not what I'm talking about. He doesn't need to.

But if you can imagine being a young guy who finally gets a call up to the NHL, how helpful it must be to have a veteran like him around. Veterans keep a lid on things, direct young players in the right direction, set good habits when it comes to approaching games, travelling, working with trainers and coaches, all those little things that are invisible to fans.

I'm a fan of Beagles because I watch how he behaves, not just when the puck's on his stick or when he's killing penalties, but because of all the little things that players like EP, Brock, and even Horvat, just don't know how to do yet.

So that's my essay on Beagle.

I don't like the 4th year of his contract, but I doubt it will matter much in the long run. His salary won't be much once the cap has gone up for 4 years. He won't be blocking any younger players, and he'll still be contributing as the "old man" on the team.

Players like Beagle aren't going to change the outcome directly on the score sheet. It's up to Benning to draft and develop the scoring talent that the Canucks need. And as he does, our middling players will be pushed out of the lineup. Bye-bye Granlund, Spooner, and whoever else is just a useful placeholder for now.

But as the team gets younger and younger, and hopefully more talented, Beagle will still have value.

People that don't like him are dead set against him, and that's fine. They're right that he doesn't score much.

But nobody expected him to score a ton. That's not his role.

ee96ccb9721d9605c9c064fa31a5fab3_400x400.jpeg
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,595
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As was mentioned in the management thread, Beagle was signed to free up EP to produce and not get exposed in the D zone, fast forward to today and EP is starting to get tired out by being forced to carry the load of the team. Beagle has 1 goal on a goalie and the Canucks score 34% of the goals at 5-on-5 with him on the ice. Such a waste of a signing, would've been better to just throw that money at a competent free agent defenseman like Calvin De Haan and have Gaunce fill Beagle's role for significantly cheaper.

Beagle seems like a great guy and I respect his effort level and professionalism.

But this signing is - predictably - turning into a complete disaster, even earlier than would probably have been expected.

1 goal on a goalie and it’s March. Skating has fallen off. Just getting killed out there and contributing nothing. An offensive black hole getting 14 minutes/game.

And we’re not even 1 year into a 4-year deal on a guy turning 34 this year.

If you want a terrifying number, we have $9 million/year committed to Eriksson and Beagle through 21-22 for two soon-to-be 34 y/os who in our last 14 games have gone a combined 28-0-0-0 -15 from the 4th line. That’s literally what Mark Stone - a top-5 winger in the league - just re-signed for. For two old, bad, slow 4th liners.
 

Hockeyphysio

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
603
519
As was mentioned in the management thread, Beagle was signed to free up EP to produce and not get exposed in the D zone, fast forward to today and EP is starting to get tired out by being forced to carry the load of the team. Beagle has 1 goal on a goalie and the Canucks score 34% of the goals at 5-on-5 with him on the ice. Such a waste of a signing, would've been better to just throw that money at a competent free agent defenseman like Calvin De Haan and have Gaunce fill Beagle's role for significantly cheaper.

Imagine how different everything is this year with De Haan signed
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,595
84,103
Vancouver, BC
I've been thinking about Beagle a lot lately, and how GMs try to build teams, and how fans can miss important things sometimes.

To a fan's perspective, what happens on the ice is pretty much all that matters. Goals, saves, points, and of course, wins. It should be obvious that GMs see that as the most important thing too, because without wins they get fired. But there's something that can be difficult for us fans to understand, because we don't really see it, while GMs and Coaches do see it.

What happens on the ice during games, the part fans see, is only a tiny part in the life of a hockey team, and Beagle was signed not only for his contribution on the ice, but for his contribution behind the scenes.

In my line of work, a crew of all young guys just can't cut it. They do great when things are going well, and their youthful enthusiasm is a vital part of a successful crew. But when some kind of serious adversity comes along, I look at my veteran guys to lead us out of it. The vets don't overreact, they just keep going. They stay calm in the face of adversity. They also know how to prepare themselves and how to be consistent. They don't waver, and maybe most importantly, they don't ***** and complain, which can become contagious. The vets set the tone for the entire crew. And guess what? That's what people often call "culture."

I'm not in the hockey business, but there are parallels between any team of people working on an objective together. A team requires leadership and experienced people.

Analyzing Beagle's contribution by on-ice in-game stats only will always leave you disappointed. If you watch how he behaves during the games, on the bench, between whistles, he knows exactly what he's doing. He intervenes and interposes himself when rookies are unsure how to deal with aggression from the other team, for instance. He doesn't fight; that's not what I'm talking about. He doesn't need to.

But if you can imagine being a young guy who finally gets a call up to the NHL, how helpful it must be to have a veteran like him around. Veterans keep a lid on things, direct young players in the right direction, set good habits when it comes to approaching games, travelling, working with trainers and coaches, all those little things that are invisible to fans.

I'm a fan of Beagles because I watch how he behaves, not just when the puck's on his stick or when he's killing penalties, but because of all the little things that players like EP, Brock, and even Horvat, just don't know how to do yet.

So that's my essay on Beagle.

I don't like the 4th year of his contract, but I doubt it will matter much in the long run. His salary won't be much once the cap has gone up for 4 years. He won't be blocking any younger players, and he'll still be contributing as the "old man" on the team.

Players like Beagle aren't going to change the outcome directly on the score sheet. It's up to Benning to draft and develop the scoring talent that the Canucks need. And as he does, our middling players will be pushed out of the lineup. Bye-bye Granlund, Spooner, and whoever else is just a useful placeholder for now.

But as the team gets younger and younger, and hopefully more talented, Beagle will still have value.

People that don't like him are dead set against him, and that's fine. They're right that he doesn't score much.

But nobody expected him to score a ton. That's not his role.

If you want bad 4th liners for culture, you sign them for $1 million for a year.

Where was the team expected to finish this year?

Uh, pretty much exactly where we are? Like 2 spots different?
 
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