Player Discussion Jay Beagle

F A N

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2011 roster had Malhotra at 2.5M, Lapierre at 900K, Higgins at 1.9M, Hansen at 825K, Torres at 1M, Glass at 625K, Tambellini at 500K. That is what I could find, and from what I can remember, it seems accurate. Trying to fill your bottom six with Free Agent signings, is going to have you end up with overpayments.

Exactly. And even if you fill your bottom six with RFA players you're likely to overpay to sign them to term. Beagle signed a 3 year $1.75MAAV contract with Washington coming off a 10 goal 20 point season. Previously, his offensive totals looked like that of Brendan Gaunce. Antoine Roussel was coming off a 4 year $2M AAV contract. Clearly their respective teams took a chance and gambled that they were for real and would be mainstays on their respective teams.
 

ErrantShepherd

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...Canada, eh?
Honest question: if Beagle is waived tomorrow, is he picked up?

Hard to say... contract is not favorable, that term is pretty crazy to pick up, but it seems like he still is perceived as valuable by various teams in the league.

If a team were down a center or two they might take a flyer, but it's not like he's a short-term pickup or offensive pickup. He still is a legit veteran NHL center though, so outside of his awful contract, objectively better as a player option than some organisations' AHL callups.

Answer: I would say just barely yes, mostly because Chiarelli exists and he isn't the only GM around that level of decision making...
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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So Beagle is the only reason we won the games when he was in the lineup? Plus, what does this have to do with his terrible contract?
It was a pretty major reason why we started winning..it freed up Horvat into a more offensive role...Canucks are pretty strong at centre in my opinion...

Any decent UFA would be overpaid..they all are by definition..arent they?
 

Hodgy

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It was a pretty major reason why we started winning..it freed up Horvat into a more offensive role...Canucks are pretty strong at centre in my opinion...

Any decent UFA would be overpaid..they all are by definition..arent they?

Sure, it freed up Horvat. But did that player have to be Beagle? Are there not lots of decent bottom six centres that you don't have to pay 3 million per year over 4 years?
 

Nolan Bombgardener

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It was a pretty major reason why we started winning..it freed up Horvat into a more offensive role.
Giving Beagle credit for the wins because he freed up Horvat is like giving Ed Jovanovski credit for the goal Matt Cooke scored to force overtime against the Calgary Flames because Jovanovski taking the penalty gave Cooke the opportunity to score a short handed goal.

Any decent UFA would be overpaid..they all are by definition..arent they?
For midtier UFAs like Beagle, you should only need to overpay on money or term, not both. Only top tier free agents deserve overpayment on money and term.
 

xtra

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Yup correlation doesn’t mean causation but I wouldn’t expect some of these posters to understand that.

Then someone one says there is no way to structure your team that’s correct. If we signed 4th line players to 6 million dollar contracts what are the chances of building a contender? Is that’s a smart way to build a team?

Everyone justified his salary with him winning face offs but anyone want to tell me how his 50.9% faceoff winning. Percentage is helping?

At the end of the day this was a move to push for the playoffs this season which is a stupid thing to be doing. I guess a lot of the “fans” in here just wanna cheer benning on to a 4game sweep in the first round in the next few years as opposed to winning a cup
 

tantalum

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Yep. Beagle makes that sort of difference to a lineup. Just like Global warming can be laid at the feet of a decreasing pirate population.

Jay Beagle culture carrying player with massive team impact.
 

F A N

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At the end of the day this was a move to push for the playoffs this season which is a stupid thing to be doing. I guess a lot of the “fans” in here just wanna cheer benning on to a 4game sweep in the first round in the next few years as opposed to winning a cup

I think you're oversimplying. Green's gameplan clearly involves specific deployment of players. We saw when Beagle and Sutter were out how Green used Horvat. The plan was to put offensive players in offensive situations. If you're talking about the "fans", I think the Canucks have successfully (with Pettersson) brought excitement back to the fans.
 

xtra

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I think you're oversimplying. Green's gameplan clearly involves specific deployment of players. We saw when Beagle and Sutter were out how Green used Horvat. The plan was to put offensive players in offensive situations. If you're talking about the "fans", I think the Canucks have successfully (with Pettersson) brought excitement back to the fans.

So explain to me how putting a 1 million 4th line center would differ from a 3 million 4th line center. The big difference is what the expectation is aka playoffs or not. Signing beagle was a move to push for the playoffs this year not a move for the playoffs/cup when they might have a chance in 3/4 years
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Giving Beagle credit for the wins because he freed up Horvat is like giving Ed Jovanovski credit for the goal Matt Cooke scored to force overtime against the Calgary Flames because Jovanovski taking the penalty gave Cooke the opportunity to score a short handed goal.


For midtier UFAs like Beagle, you should only need to overpay on money or term, not both. Only top tier free agents deserve overpayment on money and term.
When Beagle came back, the PK improved, and we started winning..It put players back into positions ,and avoided players playing well over their heads (did you watch the games..?).

When you're a consensus bottom 5 team, you will be overpaying in UFA...the word 'fair' does not come into the equation.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Yup correlation doesn’t mean causation but I wouldn’t expect some of these posters to understand that.

Then someone one says there is no way to structure your team that’s correct. If we signed 4th line players to 6 million dollar contracts what are the chances of building a contender? Is that’s a smart way to build a team?

Everyone justified his salary with him winning face offs but anyone want to tell me how his 50.9% faceoff winning. Percentage is helping?

At the end of the day this was a move to push for the playoffs this season which is a stupid thing to be doing. I guess a lot of the “fans” in here just wanna cheer benning on to a 4game sweep in the first round in the next few years as opposed to winning a cup
They brought in Beagle to push for the playoffs...?..:laugh:

At the end of last season..we didn't have a true #1 goalie...The Sedins and Vanek were gone, and nobody knew where are offence was coming from (that's why most hockey experts had us in consensus bottom 3 at the start of the year)..Nobody saw the the offence that Pettersson would bring, in fact..it was possible that he was going start in Utica.

The D was essentially unchanged from the previous year....So,..use some common sense, and tell me....How does Benning,acquiring some bottom 6 forwards in UFA signal to you that Benning was making a playoff push?.
 

y2kcanucks

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If Beagle made that much of a difference he'd be paid $13M per season, not $3M.

This.

It's insane and incredibly short-sighted to say "well the team has been winning when he's in the lineup so he must be the reason." Uh no. It doesn't work that way. But some people will hold on to anything they can.

Beagle was an awful contract from day 1.
 

xtra

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They brought in Beagle to push for the playoffs...?..:laugh:

At the end of last season..we didn't have a true #1 goalie...The Sedins and Vanek were gone, and nobody knew where are offence was coming from (that's why most hockey experts had us in consensus bottom 3 at the start of the year)..Nobody saw the the offence that Pettersson would bring, in fact..it was possible that he was going start in Utica.

The D was essentially unchanged from the previous year....So,..use some common sense, and tell me....How does Benning,acquiring some bottom 6 forwards in UFA signal to you that Benning was making a playoff push?.


Cause I honestly believe benning is a moron that thought signing 4th liners would push us to playoff contention.

But once again tell me why you think OVERPAYING for a 4th liner was a move other than to push for the playoffs?

Leadership - beagle didn’t have a monopoly on this many others provide that

Defensive play - many others provide this

Offense - beagle doesn’t provide this

Face offs - as proven and agreed upon 1 faceoff win every 2 games is statistically irrelevant.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Cause I honestly believe benning is a moron that thought signing 4th liners would push us to playoff contention.

But once again tell me why you think OVERPAYING for a 4th liner was a move other than to push for the playoffs?

Leadership - beagle didn’t have a monopoly on this many others provide that

Defensive play - many others provide this

Offense - beagle doesn’t provide this

Face offs - as proven and agreed upon 1 faceoff win every 2 games is statistically irrelevant.
Exactly what Benning said it was for..

-Green and Benning identified the bottom 6 from last year as a liability..There needed to be an upgrade with proven NHL players..
-Instead of signing a top 6 UFA like Bozak,JVR,Neal.(which would have ripped the team a new one in $ and term)...They concentrated on the bottom half of their forward roster, and gambled with the young players in the top 6
-With the Sedins gone ,and the Canucks having younger players coming in, they also valued Beagles leadership skills.
-There was a bidding war for Beagles services...Also,as a rebuilding team ..you have to overpay (UFA's prefer to go to a contender do they not?)
-After suffering a broken forearm...that might affect your face-off %..?
-The Canucks don't have a top heavy salary structure (yet),...$3m per is $600K above the league average.
 

xtra

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Sorry this is where we disagree, you don’t have to overpay for anything, if a player is going to be overpaid (and you agree he is) you walk away from it.

Is beagle the only player that can provide leadership or show players how to be professionals?

Even if he’s suffering from lingering effects of a broken forearm you haven’t shown how winning one additional faceoff (over someone at 50%) every 2 games is worth overpaying for

There is nothing that forced benning to overpay for beagle, if he wanted to upgrade the bottom 6 there were other players that he could have signed.
 
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