Jason Demers and Justin Braun

[McDeez]

I've been reading that everyone is loving the year that Demers is having. Also with the promise of a true shutdown stud that Braun has paved himself as.

What is their long-term potential upside?
Do you see them as long term Sharks?
Are/Could they (be) top pairing defensemen? If yes/not, why?

I'm a huge fan of these 2 including Vlasic, but he's already established himself as a true shutdown Dman and I honestly don't see him going anywhere.. So with the knowledge of our team on this Sharks board I'm curious of your thoughts on these 2.

Edit: typos, rephrasing questions

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[OrrNumber4]

I was thinking about this. When both players broke into the scene, I think almost any fan would have taken Demers over Braun. Then, for most of the past 2+ years, Braun put himself solidly ahead of Demers. Now, over the past 30-or-so games, Demers is making it a competition.

I see both players as top-4, puck-moving defensemen, now and in the future. I hope that both of them remain with the Sharks long-term. Of course, there is the issue of the salary cap, possible decline, injuries...but this is always present.

Neither player is so good that it is not out of question for a prospect to come from somewhere and seize his spot.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I see them two and Vlasic as 3 of our top-4 defensemen for the next 5+ years (hopefully).

It's so nice to see both of them cement themselves as top guys and fulfilling the promise we saw 3 years ago.

 

[magic school bus]

Neither one of them is complete enough to be a top pair guy, but there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Leidi J]

Neither one of them is complete enough to be a top pair guy, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I dunno... if we can shore up the rest of the bottom four I would love to see Vlasic/Braun as a more long term permanent pair. They were a crazy lockdown pairing when they got to play together for the first month or so. Too bad our bad depth forced a split

 

[landshark]

Demers should get the number for Braun's skating coach. That's really what got Braun over the top in my opinion. Braun's improved skating allows him to be faster, but i think he doesn't have to work as hard at skating in general now, leads to better recovery from pinching.

I think a faster acceleration/more "effortless" stride for Demers would mean more hitting and even more pinching, probably better overall positioning which i think Braun gained from the time spent with his skating coach. I think Demers is overall more aggressive than Braun, on both ends of the ice.

They're both top 4. The nod to Braun to be the number 2 currently, but Irwin/Boyle as 3/4 hasn't been so great... I think Demers has been playing with Vlassic lately. And Braun has been saddled with Irwin lately... pretty sure this situation has been covered in other threads.

I think Braun's frame and stick work is better and is slightly better defensively. I think Demers has a slight edge in nose for the puck in the offensive zone. Demers has a better over all shot than Braun as well. Just from eyeball, i'm too lazy to dig up advanced stats to support my opinion.

I gotta say it's been fun to watch these guys develop over the last few years.

 

[SacLandshark]

Keep giving Larry Robinson whatever he wants - just makes sure he stays.

 

[Eklund72]

Demers should get the number for Braun's skating coach. That's really what got Braun over the top in my opinion. Braun's improved skating allows him to be faster, but i think he doesn't have to work as hard at skating in general now, leads to better recovery from pinching.

I think a faster acceleration/more "effortless" stride for Demers would mean more hitting and even more pinching, probably better overall positioning which i think Braun gained from the time spent with his skating coach. I think Demers is overall more aggressive than Braun, on both ends of the ice.

They're both top 4. The nod to Braun to be the number 2 currently, but Irwin/Boyle as 3/4 hasn't been so great... I think Demers has been playing with Vlassic lately. And Braun has been saddled with Irwin lately... pretty sure this situation has been covered in other threads.

I think Braun's frame and stick work is better and is slightly better defensively. I think Demers has a slight edge in nose for the puck in the offensive zone. Demers has a better over all shot than Braun as well. Just from eyeball, i'm too lazy to dig up advanced stats to support my opinion.

I gotta say it's been fun to watch these guys develop over the last few years.

Braun is FAR better defensively. Nothing slight about it. If Demers weren't with Vlasic it would be much more obvious.

Also, Braun has a lethal shot. Demers has pretty much the opposite. Right now Demers has offensive confidence and Braun lacks it. Once Braun gets his confidence back he'll be pounding pucks on net over and over just like he did when he first came into the league.

Demers has the poise to be a great ppqb but the only thing holding him back is his soft shot. If Braun can figure his offense out I think he could be better then Demers offensively just because he has that extra asset which is vital for great offensive defenseman

 

[OrrNumber4]

Braun is FAR better defensively. Nothing slight about it. If Demers weren't with Vlasic it would be much more obvious.

Also, Braun has a lethal shot. Demers has pretty much the opposite. Right now Demers has offensive confidence and Braun lacks it. Once Braun gets his confidence back he'll be pounding pucks on net over and over just like he did when he first came into the league.

Demers has the poise to be a great ppqb but the only thing holding him back is his soft shot. If Braun can figure his offense out I think he could be better then Demers offensively just because he has that extra asset which is vital for great offensive defenseman

Keep in mind, that a lot of players come into the league looking like they have this great shot. Then the other teams figure them out, and all of a sudden it goes away. Matt Irwin, Shawn Heins, etc.

Demers shot is quick, its accurate, and Demers has the lateral ability to find lanes really well. Very similar to Dan Boyle.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Keep in mind, that a lot of players come into the league looking like they have this great shot. Then the other teams figure them out, and all of a sudden it goes away. Matt Irwin, Shawn Heins, etc.

Demers shot is quick, its accurate, and Demers has the lateral ability to find lanes really well. Very similar to Dan Boyle.

Yup and he has better vision and puck handling and passing than Braun.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'm hoping that Braun will top out as an Andy Greene comparable(I typed Angry Deene at first).

Then I hope that Demers will put up 40-50 point seasons from here on out with no more Boyle taking up the PP time.

I believe that Vlasic will also find his scoring touch and will be a consistent 30 point player from next year onward.

Finally, to top off my somewhat hyperbolic hopes, I foresee Mirco Mueller as a Suter/Vlasic hybrid equivalent when he fills out his frame with 20-30 pounds. For the record, Mueller and Thornton were the same weight and height when drafted. Thornton is now listed at 220lbs.

 

[Barrie22]

I'm hoping that Braun will top out as an Andy Greene comparable(I typed Angry Deene at first).

Then I hope that Demers will put up 40-50 point seasons from here on out with no more Boyle taking up the PP time.

I believe that Vlasic will also find his scoring touch and will be a consistent 30 point player from next year onward.

Finally, to top off my somewhat hyperbolic hopes, I foresee Mirco Mueller as a Suter/Vlasic hybrid equivalent when he fills out his frame with 20-30 pounds. For the record, Mueller and Thornton were the same weight and height when drafted. Thornton is now listed at 220lbs.

Other then the height and long hair thornton didn't look like the typical hockey player either. Especially one that was tasked with being the 4th line tough guy his 1st season as a bruin.

 

[freddypuck]

Yup and he has better vision and puck handling and passing than Braun.

100% in agreement with you, Braun lacks offensive hockey sense imo...

 

[hohosaregood]

Other then the height and long hair thornton didn't look like the typical hockey player either. Especially one that was tasked with being the 4th line tough guy his 1st season as a bruin.

Mike Potenza to the rescue!

 

[Gene Parmesan]

100% in agreement with you, Braun lacks offensive hockey sense imo...

Its instincts. Braun is good at reading plays and making proper pinches and keeping offense alive but Demers just has more of a feel. Sliding laterally to create lanes, waiting that extra second to shoot etc. He's just a gifted offensive player.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'm hoping that Braun will top out as an Andy Greene comparable(I typed Angry Deene at first).

Then I hope that Demers will put up 40-50 point seasons from here on out with no more Boyle taking up the PP time.

I believe that Vlasic will also find his scoring touch and will be a consistent 30 point player from next year onward.

Finally, to top off my somewhat hyperbolic hopes, I foresee Mirco Mueller as a Suter/Vlasic hybrid equivalent when he fills out his frame with 20-30 pounds. For the record, Mueller and Thornton were the same weight and height when drafted. Thornton is now listed at 220lbs.

Thornton is 220 this year. He was much heavier the last few years. He's leaner and faster this year so I think he knew he had to drop some weight.

 

[sr228]

What is their long-term potential upside?
I think Braun is probably pretty close to his peak potential. I do think his production should improve a little bit (20+ pts) and he could have a season or two where he comes close to 30pts but right now he's a good puck moving d-man (both pass and his ability to skate with the puck) who can play and succeed in tough minutes.

Demers is an offensive d-man and I think if he's finally figured it out he'll top out as a 40+pt player who can be an OK PPQB. I still see his defensive game as average but he's so good with the puck, in transition and in the offensive zone that 'average' is certainly good enough.

Are/Could they (be) top pairing defensemen? If yes/not, why?
Braun has already shown he's capable of taking on top QualComp and winning his matchups.

I think Demers could top out as a #3 but I'd still like to see him play at his current level (which has been very good) for longer then 50-55 games before saying he'll get there.

 

[magic school bus]

I dunno... if we can shore up the rest of the bottom four I would love to see Vlasic/Braun as a more long term permanent pair. They were a crazy lockdown pairing when they got to play together for the first month or so. Too bad our bad depth forced a split

That doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman, which is what i meant. that's just vlasic. Braun wouldn't be a top pair guy without Vlasic, just like any of Boyle' s partners weren't top pair guys without him.

 

[Timos Death Stare]

... I just wish one of our Dmen had a bomb of a shot other than slow-poke Irwin. That blast that people refer to from Braun wasn't really a blast if I remember correctly. It was more of a wrister that seemed to always find its way to the net (wish we saw that more these days).

In fact, none of our Dmen aside from Irwin really have a bomb at the point - I feel that this contributes to our PP being one-dimensional as well since we don't have that canon to utilize ala Rob Blake or Error.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't think either one is going to improve much on what they currently are.

In a vacuum, I would say Braun is the better player, but if I could only keep one on this team, I would pick Demers.

 

[SJeasy]

I think Braun's frame and stick work is better and is slightly better defensively. I think Demers has a slight edge in nose for the puck in the offensive zone. Demers has a better over all shot than Braun as well. Just from eyeball, i'm too lazy to dig up advanced stats to support my opinion.

At the outset of the year, Demers was way below average for accuracy. He has improved to just below middle. Since they don't break it down by games, I assume that he is slightly above average for accuracy now. The numbers agree with what I am seeing. Currently, Boyle is far and away the most accurate. Vlasic, irwin and Braun are all reasonably accurate (middling). Irwin had a slight edge for accuracy over the group after Boyle at the outset of the year.

The top QBs don't have to be Gods of accuracy like Blake. They do need to be well above average. Triggers tend to be Gods of accuracy. Guys like Garrison, Souray, Weber, Chara, Blake, etc.

 

[do0glas]

I'd take Braun over Demers right now because I like his defensive game a lot better. But that's in a vacuum.

Demers has impressed the hell out of me and I really hope this isn't a flash in the pan for him.

I think they both have the physical attributes to be top pairing. However, reading the game and really driving their teams at ES is beyond them right now.

Demers has the best chance though. If he can become like Braun defensively. Lookout.

 

[WheelSnipeCelly]

I wonder what exactly changed this year for Demers. I mean he was totally in tmac's doghouse last year. Some even said he played himself out of the league.

I remember seeing an interview with him at the start of this season. He said that he knew he had to make a comeback, and prove himself. He also mentioned that he had to be more diligent with his diet, and "bad habits" he was keeping away from. Do you think he had Seto syndrome? Partying too much?

 

[Sleepy]

I wonder what exactly changed this year for Demers. I mean he was totally in tmac's doghouse last year. Some even said he played himself out of the league.

I remember seeing an interview with him at the start of this season. He said that he knew he had to make a comeback, and prove himself. He also mentioned that he had to be more diligent with his diet, and "bad habits" he was keeping away from. Do you think he had Seto syndrome? Partying too much?

Boyle has regressed significantly this year, forcing TMac to turn to Demers more for some offense. With Stuart injured/regressing, he doesn't have many other options. Demers has returned to the level he was at when he had ample ice time before the Vancouver series loss. He hasn't been in the AHL a lot, so not suiting up for games is not good for any young player's development.