TSN: Jason Botchford - The Athletic " Ottawa rejected waay Better offers on Karlsson"

[JuniorNelson]

"Botched it" has become a common saying here, on the West coast. I hear it all the time!

 

[me2]

Pretty meaningless without some more details.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

According to Friedman the Stars final offer was Shore, Hintz, Honka, and the same picks without the conditions. Let’s assume that means 2019 1st and 2019 2nd with no protection.

Pretty comparable. Tierney is better than Shore, Honka has higher potential than DeMelo.

 

[tgoat]

Maybe this is just the Hoffman thing going around, Karlsson doesn't want to play on east and wanted to get his family as far away from there as possible, so Ottawa's headquarters gave him a promise to get him to west

 

[Halla]

to Fla: Hoffman
to OTT: 2nd,4th,5th

to TB: Karlsson
to OTT: Johnson, Foote, Raddysh, 1st, 2nd


probably a lot better than a couple 3rd liners, Balcers,Norris and picks

 

[stampedingviking]

Again a certain team in the east tried to get him for garbage and cap dumps. They do not want them paying real value now to someone else, it is not about keeping him out of the east.

As you claim to know so much, what was the ACTUAL deal?

 

[Reality Czech]

Why would they do this with even a small chance he turns UFA and signs in the East. Jayzus.

Exactly. And if they can get top prospects/picks from a conference rival it might hurt that team long term. Just another frustrating move for Sens fans.

That being said, I could see that team playing with a chip on its shoulder and doing better than expected next year.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I'm not sure what to think of this.
It's really not hard to believe there were better offers and often times the obvious is true.

On the other hand, I know Botchford's work and personality and he's a joke. However, even a blind squirrel is right twice a day. Perhaps this is one of them.

 

[Prongo]

I'm not sure what to think of this.
It's really not hard to believe there were better offers and often times the obvious is true.

On the other hand, I know Botchford's work and personality and he's a joke. However, even a blind squirrel is right twice a day. Perhaps this is one of them.

what? Broken clock is right twice a day lol. Even a blind Squirrel finds a nut??

I like your version better.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

He wasnt a rental. They got a cap dump a second and a prospect who vas told he was still a couple years away. How does everyone act like thats a good deal?

Simple, Nick Suzuki looks to have high end upside much more than any player the Sens acquired in their deal but should have because Karlsson is way more valuable than Patches.

 

[Leafs87]

Weird I though only competitive teams used this strategy. While rebuilding who cares if you help someone in your division get stronger while taking better assets as apose to taking lesser assets for him to go out west and in a year as a UFA he could easily come back to the east..... Very weird management by this team I have to say....

 

[supsens]

Simple, Nick Suzuki looks to have high end upside much more than any player the Sens acquired in their deal but shouls have because Karlsson is way more valulable than Patches.

They hope he might be good enough for the nhl one day. He was ranked in the bottom half of the first round 50/50 if he makes it

 

[BLONG7]

cant wait till they move Stone and Duchene for discounted prices to the West. OTT is basically the West's farm team

The Sens do seem to have become the 90's Montreal Expos...providing the rest of the league their stars...feel bad for their fans.

 

[DFC]

to Fla: Hoffman
to OTT: 2nd,4th,5th

to TB: Karlsson
to OTT: Johnson, Foote, Raddysh, 1st, 2nd


probably a lot better than a couple 3rd liners, Balcers,Norris and picks

We don't do this without an extension in place.

 

[Lenerdosy]

That’s just so dumb, whether it’s Dorion or Melnyk to blame i don’t care.

Dorion said EK wasn’t going to sign an extension with any team at this time, so why would the Sens care where EK plays this year when they’re going to suck anyway?

Besides, EK probably brings some more fans to watch games even if he’s playing on the other side lol.

Bottom line is when you’re going balls deep into a rebuild like the Sens are you have to make sure you get the best possible return, especially for you best player. It should be that simple really. Sens won’t hold a candle against any of the top dogs of the East for years, who cares if EK lights up the Sens if that means they managed to squeeze all they could out of the deal.

What a gongshow.

EDIT: to clarify, i understand why they wouldn't want to let a sign and trade to a division rival happen, you're essentially agreeing to EK owning you for the next 8 years and admittedly that would look too ridiculous, but as it stands that wasn't going to be the case. At some point you just have to face the facts and realize you've got no control what EK is going to do after you let him go, he might even end up signing in the Eastern conference next year making this deal look even more horrendous.

And regarding to how legit this is, i wouldn't even be surprised if it is true. After all Dorion did include that hilarious "no trade to Eastern conference team in 18-19" condition to one of the picks indicating this was legitimately something he was worried about, unless it was a joke towards the Hoffman trade but i doubt Dorion's sense of humor is that bad.

Basically its been said if EK wants 8 years he can only sign after next trade deadline due to a clause in the CBA, so if he wants that extra year for SJS its going to be a few months before he can "sign" it. The fact that Florida came out and said Dorion wouldn't even talk to them about Hoffman pretty much gives you the mindset Ottawa had about Dorions actual comments about not trading to the east. That conditional pick pretty much sums it up how anal they are about having him in the same conference, almost hilarious when you think about it. You could get a much better return for your future and you're so hell bent on not playing him... I would be livid as a fan.

 

[PriceIsGod]

Please give us a list of rental players that returned more. And not some fluke late pick being a star. But on paper at the time of the trade.
Since the sens did sooo bad, it must be a huge list.

I never said they did "sooo bad" I just believe they could have done way better. They did "eh" and that's the issue... You can't afford to get an "eh" return with by far your biggest trade chip when you're in the position that the sens found themselves in. Realistically I just don't have the time to look up a ton of trades that I would argue my point over lol I truly can't be bothered with that, but what I will say is Erik Karlsson is on a whole other level compared to other rentals we usually see. The guy is a franchise level talent. It would be incredibly difficult to find even 1 trade I would say is comparable to this one simply because of how good he is. Trying to compare Karlsson to other rentals is just unfair. Realistically who would we have considered the best rentals last year? Nash? Stastny? Do you see how they're good but not even close to the level of a guy like Erik Karlsson...

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

According to Friedman the Stars final offer was Shore, Hintz, Honka, and the same picks without the conditions. Let’s assume that means 2019 1st and 2019 2nd with no protection.

Pretty comparable. Tierney is better than Shore, Honka has higher potential than DeMelo.

Pretty sure Stars fans okay with that, if it had happened. Also heard at one point, Hintz was the sticking point, so they seem to have relented at the last minute. There was also talk around DFW that Ottengier was a need for OTT, wonder what happened there?

The closeness of the offers might suggest that OTT was pretty open with what others offered, letting Stars know what they had to beat, since it is the same number of assets? At least they dealt with each other fairly, but OTT just seems to have liked the SJ prospects better. Or, as when the Stars snagged Radulove, MTL matched but it was too late and OTT felt committed to the SJ deal. We will never know, eh?

Hintz and Honka have looked pretty good in camp, Shore seems to be stuck in neutral, and at some point, I think we will appreciate the two picks as well.

 

[Spirit of 67]

what? Broken clock is right twice a day lol. Even a blind Squirrel finds a nut??

I like your version better.

I have a friend who is terrible with axioms. (or whatever that's called)
So I use them once in a while for comedic effect.

Things like shooting fish in a kettle. Not the sharpest knife in the harbour. But the blind squirrel one is a favourite.

 

[King'sPawn]

I only believe the story because I believe they couldn't have received a worse legitimate offer than San Jose's.

 

[krt88nc]

What a joke, the NHL should be investigating this and vetoing the trade if it's true. This is just showing how incompetent Ottawa's management (Melnyk) really is. The NHL should step in and force Melnyk out under the guise of collusion. Absolutely ridiculous that the best dman in the world was dealt for scraps when he could've fetched a top prospect.

This is a dump take. On what grounds would NHL have to veto the trade? Ottawa got 5 pieces back. EK was their property, if they wanted to take less, they had the right. Foolish on their part but still 100% legal.

 

[Pens x]

This makes no sense if true. Ottawa is going to be terrible for the next 5 years. Who cares if he plays in the east?

Melnyk and Dorion are the most incompetent duo since Wang and Snow

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Cmon folks, do we all really believe for a second that this SJ offer was the best Dorion could get? Lets get real here, EK is a generational talent. The Habs got better quality for Patches than we got for EK.

You'd have to be a clairvoyant (or god) to be able to say this with any kind of veracity. There were two prospects and minimally a 1st and 2nd round pick (could be additional 1st and 2nd round picks) involved in this trade.

No one can really say how this will have turned out for several years.

 

[Marmoset]

There are situations where I think it can make sense to trade a player outside of the division of conference for a lower return.

1. If you are a contending team potentially dealing with another contending team (already mentioned many times).
2. The player is signed to a long-term contract.

If Karlsson had three years remaining and wanted out, I could understand more why they wouldn't want to trade him to Toronto or Tampa, as examples. But he only had one year left, after which time he can go absolutely anywhere he wants to. Since he will have total freedom in a year, it's stupid to limit your returns if this report is true.

I think that rather than being concerned about competing against Karlsson, they may be more concerned about the perception of trading Karlsson to a rival team, particularly if it was a team like Toronto. Maybe they felt a trade like that would upset their fans, but they've done that anyway.

There have been plenty of poorly run teams, but it's hard for me to think of a series of bad decisions like this by a NHL organization in such a short period of time.

 

[The don godfather]

According to Friedman the Stars final offer was Shore, Hintz, Honka, and the same picks without the conditions. Let’s assume that means 2019 1st and 2019 2nd with no protection.

Pretty comparable. Tierney is better than Shore, Honka has higher potential than DeMelo.

Pretty sure Stars fans okay with that, if it had happened. Also heard at one point, Hintz was the sticking point, so they seem to have relented at the last minute. There was also talk around DFW that Ottengier was a need for OTT, wonder what happened there?

The closeness of the offers might suggest that OTT was pretty open with what others offered, letting Stars know what they had to beat, since it is the same number of assets? At least they dealt with each other fairly, but OTT just seems to have liked the SJ prospects better. Or, as when the Stars snagged Radulove, MTL matched but it was too late and OTT felt committed to the SJ deal. We will never know, eh?

Hintz and Honka have looked pretty good in camp, Shore seems to be stuck in neutral, and at some point, I think we will appreciate the two picks as well.

I rather have norris and balcers better prospects.

 

[Liferleafer]

Am I the only one who thinks SJ gave a fair bit for a guy they have no idea if they can re-sign?