Jaromir Jagr to finish 35 games short of all-time record

Future GOAT

Registered User
Apr 4, 2017
3,546
2,498
I think what he meant was objectively speaking, Jagr is a better player than Crosby, hands down more talented, but that doesnt mean he contributed as much as a Penguins player. He's contributed enough though to lay claim to being the second best, otherwise you'd also see players like Kovalev up there(another player more skilled than Crosby but didnt do anything with it)
As someone who watched both these guys from the starts of their careers up to today, there is no question who was the more offensively dominant player. That was and still is Jagr.
 

Snakepit

Registered User
Nov 19, 2013
6,110
1,769
Is he still playing at all?
No, his knees completely gave up on him. It's why he had to leave Calgary and even when he was 'playing' with his Czech team most nights he would line up for the opening face off just to get a few seconds of ice time then go sit on the bench and essentially help coach.
 

Passchendaele

Registered User
Dec 11, 2006
7,731
1,148
Malkin was a superstar level player, but still he was never a Jagr-level player.
He wasn't as consistent in his prime, but at his absolute best, Malkin was as good as Jagr had ever been.

Not once has Jagr been as dominant in the playoffs as 2009 Malkin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Casanova

Troubadour

Registered User
Feb 23, 2018
1,157
842
He wasn't as consistent in his prime, but at his absolute best, Malkin was as good as Jagr had ever been.

Not once has Jagr been as dominant in the playoffs as 2009 Malkin.

In 2000 playoffs, Jagr scored 8 goals and added 8 assists in the first 8 games. 4 GWG, 1 OTG. The point of break came in the ninth game in which he played almost 60 minutes and failed to score. He wouldn't do a thing for the rest of the series, but still finished with 16 points in 11 games. You could argue that for the first eight games, he was more dominant than any Pen ever except for Lemieux.

The second most productive Pen that PS was Jan Hrdina, Jagr's own product.
 

Riddum

Registered User
Nov 5, 2008
5,951
2,003
Montreal
Ron Francis, Alexi Kovalev, Lemieux, & Straka all played with Jágr during that time frame. So don’t act like Jagr was playing with guys like Pete Lee or Mitch Lamoureux. Jágr was a great player, but Sid absolutely blows him out of the water.
Lemieux was an absolute shell of his former self by that point. No longer a Hart Trophy or Ted Lindsay candidate.

None of the other guys where Art Ross/Hart/Ted lindsay players. You completely ignored the point I was making.

Crosby benefited from having a guy as good as him for his entire career. They've benefited from being in their prime at the same time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Future GOAT

Riddum

Registered User
Nov 5, 2008
5,951
2,003
Montreal
See that’s the thing, I watched both & to me, Sid is far more gifted. He’s a better skater, has better vision, far superior leader. Jágr was a bear to get off the puck, but Sid gets into the dirty areas & is a grinder by nature. Jágr got his points by longevity, but Sid is the better player.

Absolutely foolish thing to say.

Jagr was lightyears beyond Crosby offensively. Jagr played in Crosby's era and put up a 123pts season... something Crosby has never done. Keep in mind Jagr did it as a 35 year old.

Look at Jagr's numbers during the 4 Art Ross span. Scoring was lower than in Crosby's era (leaguewide), yet Jagr put up much more impressive numbers.

Crosby hasn't put up a 100pts season in the last 5 years. Jagr dominated the league during that same age span.

Jagr was the only player, not named Gretzky or Lemieux, to win an Art Ross in the span of 20 years. Crosby traded Art Ross with the likes of the Sedin Twins and Jamie Benn.

You can tell me Crosby is the better leader, I would agree. You could tell me Crosby is the better human being, I would shrug but Jagr is far more talented and that's a fact.
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
Absolutely foolish thing to say.

Jagr was lightyears beyond Crosby offensively. Jagr played in Crosby's era and put up a 123pts season... something Crosby has never done. Keep in mind Jagr did it as a 35 year old.

Look at Jagr's numbers during the 4 Art Ross span. Scoring was lower than in Crosby's era (leaguewide), yet Jagr put up much more impressive numbers.

Crosby hasn't put up a 100pts season in the last 5 years. Jagr dominated the league during that same age span.

Jagr was the only player, not named Gretzky or Lemieux, to win an Art Ross in the span of 20 years. Crosby traded Art Ross with the likes of the Sedin Twins and Jamie Benn.

You can tell me Crosby is the better leader, I would agree. You could tell me Crosby is the better human being, I would shrug but Jagr is far more talented and that's a fact.

Eh, I dispute the "Era" comment. Jagr did that once in the cap era, and it was in the 2005-2006 season when offensive stats were way-up.
Crosby's #'s are fantastic, and if not for injuries would have beaten the 123 points. IMO, he's better and more complete than Jagr in his prime (Cropsby had 120 the year after Jagr had 123 points FYI)
 

maacoshark

Registered User
Jul 22, 2017
9,629
3,723
Not a big Jagr fan either. He got on my nerves his last couple years as a Penguin, but I don't hold any ill will towards him.

Would have been cool to see him hit 2k, as I believe only Gretzky ever broke that barrier.

I think he had something like 17 NHL seasons in a row with 30+ goals. Pretty amazing when you think about it.
15 consecutive 30 goal seasons
 

maacoshark

Registered User
Jul 22, 2017
9,629
3,723
Absolutely foolish thing to say.

Jagr was lightyears beyond Crosby offensively. Jagr played in Crosby's era and put up a 123pts season... something Crosby has never done. Keep in mind Jagr did it as a 35 year old.

Look at Jagr's numbers during the 4 Art Ross span. Scoring was lower than in Crosby's era (leaguewide), yet Jagr put up much more impressive numbers.

Crosby hasn't put up a 100pts season in the last 5 years. Jagr dominated the league during that same age span.

Jagr was the only player, not named Gretzky or Lemieux, to win an Art Ross in the span of 20 years. Crosby traded Art Ross with the likes of the Sedin Twins and Jamie Benn.

You can tell me Crosby is the better leader, I would agree. You could tell me Crosby is the better human being, I would shrug but Jagr is far more talented and that's a fact.
Did you forget that Jagr played a good part of his career in the no defence era. Everyone's numbers were inflated.
 

MightySelanne8

Registered User
Mar 10, 2014
450
327
Helsinki
There is zero debate on who is the better offensive player; Jagr or Crosby. Its Jagr AINEC

Crosby is ahead when all things are concidered.
 

edog37

Registered User
Jan 21, 2007
6,055
1,602
Pittsburgh
The late 90s Penguins teams wouldn’t be built around Jagrs offense? He would have to share? There’s only one puck. While Crosby and Malkin have shared it, Jagr demanded it to appease his ego.

Everything done during that time frame was done with Jagr in mind. Ivan Hlinka was brought in for Jágr. Francis was traded so Jagr could become captain.
 

edog37

Registered User
Jan 21, 2007
6,055
1,602
Pittsburgh
He wasn't as consistent in his prime, but at his absolute best, Malkin was as good as Jagr had ever been.

Not once has Jagr been as dominant in the playoffs as 2009 Malkin.

Jagr was never a main cog in any playoff run. He had some good games, but he never elevated his team the way Mario & Sid have. That’s why he’s behind them.
 

edog37

Registered User
Jan 21, 2007
6,055
1,602
Pittsburgh
Lemieux was an absolute shell of his former self by that point. No longer a Hart Trophy or Ted Lindsay candidate.

None of the other guys where Art Ross/Hart/Ted lindsay players. You completely ignored the point I was making.

Crosby benefited from having a guy as good as him for his entire career. They've benefited from being in their prime at the same time.

Lemieux was a shell when he put up 161 pts in 95/96, & 122 in 96/97. When he came back in 00/01, he put up 76 points in half a season. That’s quite a “shell” of a player
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,184
7,959
As a Pens’ fan, Jags is easily the second best Penguin of all-time.

Prime Jagr would circles around Crosby and Malkin.
 

Troubadour

Registered User
Feb 23, 2018
1,157
842
Everything done during that time frame was done with Jagr in mind. Ivan Hlinka was brought in for Jágr. Francis was traded so Jagr could become captain.

OK, now we know that you know nothing.

Francis signed with the Hurricanes as a free agent.
 

Troubadour

Registered User
Feb 23, 2018
1,157
842
Jagr was never a main cog in any playoff run. He had some good games, but he never elevated his team the way Mario & Sid have. That’s why he’s behind them.

This is a complete hogwash too.

Jagr took the Pens through many series. There was no playoff without him in the late nineties early 00s, as proven by the fact the Pens never made the post season after his departure (01) until 2007.

Jagr elevated the Pens by even dragging them into the playoffs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Future GOAT

C4R105

Registered User
Nov 9, 2014
55
105
Jagr was never a main cog in any playoff run. He had some good games, but he never elevated his team the way Mario & Sid have. That’s why he’s behind them.
This is simply a myth. Jagr was one of the best, if not the best playoff performer during his prime. He just was not on very good teams. Crosby has zero cups with mid to late 90s Pens team. And overall he was simply better offensive player than Sid. Stats prove it quite clearly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Future GOAT

Riddum

Registered User
Nov 5, 2008
5,951
2,003
Montreal
Lemieux was a shell when he put up 161 pts in 95/96, & 122 in 96/97. When he came back in 00/01, he put up 76 points in half a season. That’s quite a “shell” of a player
I'm clearly talking about 97 to 2001, when Lemieux did not play for 3 years and finally came back.

Look what Jagr accomplished when a shell-of-his-former self Lemieux came back in 2001. The amount of points Lemieux put up in his comeback doesn't matter, if you actually watched him play, you'd know he was a shell. Just like the Jagr that put up 123 pts in 2005-2006 was a shell-of-his-former-self.
 

Riddum

Registered User
Nov 5, 2008
5,951
2,003
Montreal
Did you forget that Jagr played a good part of his career in the no defence era. Everyone's numbers were inflated.
Again. Looks at this numbers during the 4 Art Ross in a row. Looks at the goals per game per team average for the league, during that span.

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

1997-1998 2.64 GPG
1998-1999 2.63 GPG
1999-2000 2.75 GPG
2000-2001 2.76 GPG

During that span, Jagr put up
GP77 G 35 A 67 PTS 102
GP81 G 44 A 83 PTS 127
GP63 G 42 A 54 PTS 96
GP81 G 52 A 69 PTS 121

Crosby's 2 Art Ross Winning Seasons

2006-2007 2.95 GPG
2013-2014 2.74 GPG

GP 79 G 36 A 84 PTS 120
GP 80 G 36 A 68 PTS 104

Don't feed me crap about high scoring era. Jagr was far more dominant and put up higher numbers in a much lower scoring era (Dead Puck Era).

Eh, I dispute the "Era" comment. Jagr did that once in the cap era, and it was in the 2005-2006 season when offensive stats were way-up.
Crosby's #'s are fantastic, and if not for injuries would have beaten the 123 points. IMO, he's better and more complete than Jagr in his prime (Cropsby had 120 the year after Jagr had 123 points FYI)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Future GOAT

maacoshark

Registered User
Jul 22, 2017
9,629
3,723
Again. Looks at this numbers during the 4 Art Ross in a row. Looks at the goals per game per team average for the league, during that span.

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

1997-1998 2.64 GPG
1998-1999 2.63 GPG
1999-2000 2.75 GPG
2000-2001 2.76 GPG

During that span, Jagr put up
GP77 G 35 A 67 PTS 102
GP81 G 44 A 83 PTS 127
GP63 G 42 A 54 PTS 96
GP81 G 52 A 69 PTS 121

Crosby's 2 Art Ross Winning Seasons

2006-2007 2.95 GPG
2013-2014 2.74 GPG

GP 79 G 36 A 84 PTS 120
GP 80 G 36 A 68 PTS 104

Don't feed me crap about high scoring era. Jagr was far more dominant and put up higher numbers in a much lower scoring era (Dead Puck Era).
I'm talking about the earlier part of his career when the scoring was a lot higher.
You only posted stats for a shirt period of his career. You didnt even post the season which was his highest in offensive production. You also have forgotten that Hus early numbers were probably inflated playing on a line with Lemieux. Your argument doesn't hold water.
 

Troubadour

Registered User
Feb 23, 2018
1,157
842
I'm talking about the earlier part of his career when the scoring was a lot higher.
You only posted stats for a shirt period of his career. You didnt even post the season which was his highest in offensive production. You also have forgotten that Hus early numbers were probably inflated playing on a line with Lemieux. Your argument doesn't hold water.

What are you even talking about? Jagr posted his best numbers during the DPE because in the early nineties, he played on the third/second lines with very limited PP time. If anything, the early nineties or more specifically the situation in Pittsburgh cost him points instead of "inflating" anything.
 

robsenz

Registered User
Apr 15, 2007
3,553
2,416
Jags should just sign with Ottawa and get the record...season is done, who cares. It would at least be something to look forward to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beville

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->