Jaromir Jagr to finish 35 games short of all-time record

[JJ68]

Eh, I dispute the "Era" comment. Jagr did that once in the cap era, and it was in the 2005-2006 season when offensive stats were way-up.
Crosby's #'s are fantastic, and if not for injuries would have beaten the 123 points. IMO, he's better and more complete than Jagr in his prime (Cropsby had 120 the year after Jagr had 123 points FYI)

You base that on what? Assumptions and your own desire to believe in it. Crosby has never proven it. Why? Because he cant. Jagr in his prime would smoke a chump like Benn.

Oh yeah, and Jagr dominated when he also had to contend with players hanging on his back and doing ANYTHING to try and stop him. Plus he managed to stay healthy during that era, which is astounding.
Sid wouldnt have been able to hack it, as we can see playing in a much softer era he can barely hack it.

 

[Backhandbeauty]

Did you forget that Jagr played a good part of his career in the no defence era. Everyone's numbers were inflated.

I'm talking about the earlier part of his career when the scoring was a lot higher.
You only posted stats for a shirt period of his career. You didnt even post the season which was his highest in offensive production. You also have forgotten that Hus early numbers were probably inflated playing on a line with Lemieux. Your argument doesn't hold water.

He only played 4 seasons before scoring started going into a free fall. Try again,homeskillet.

 

[KeepitinPitt]

You base that on what? Assumptions and your own desire to believe in it. Crosby has never proven it. Why? Because he cant. Jagr in his prime would smoke a chump like Benn.

Oh yeah, and Jagr dominated when he also had to contend with players hanging on his back and doing ANYTHING to try and stop him. Plus he managed to stay healthy during that era, which is astounding.
Sid wouldnt have been able to hack it, as we can see playing in a much softer era he can barely hack it.

Crosby can barely hack it? What universe are you living in? Sid has dealt with his fair share of physicality and has thrived. I can say without much doubt there is very little separating the two in terms of talent. I get that someone named JJ68 would think Jagr is better but I don't see any reason to discredit Sid. For all the hype he has lived up to the billing and that's pretty rare in sports. Much like Jags he is extremely difficult to separate from the puck. I don't see him having any problem adapting to the 90's style of play. To me, Crosby drives the offense more than Jagr ever did for the Penguins and is well ahead of him in terms of defense. So I'll take Sid but it's a good debate between two of my favorite athletes.

 

[adsfan]

Who says he's done? Isn't anyone willing to pick him up on waivers?

Speaking as a Nashville fan, yes. He can be on line 3.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Jagr over Crosby as a Penguin is a flat out bad take. Jagr has nothing on Crosby except offensive Peak.

 

[stator]

Jagr back in the NHL? Maybe he should try to make the top league in Czech first, no?

 

[Riddum]

People just don't understand how dominant and special Jagr was. Top 5 forward of all time. Greatest European forward in NHL history AINEC.

Art Ross winners

1980-81	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1981-82	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1982-83	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1983-84	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1984-85	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1985-86	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1986-87	Wayne Gretzky	Edmonton Oilers
1987-88	Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh Penguins
1988-89	Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh Penguins
1989-90	Wayne Gretzky	Los Angeles Kings
1990-91	Wayne Gretzky	Los Angeles Kings
1991-92	Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh Penguins
1992-93	Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh Penguins
1993-94	Wayne Gretzky	Los Angeles Kings
1994-95	Jaromir Jagr	Pittsburgh Penguins
1995-96	Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh Penguins
1996-97	Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh Penguins
1997-98	Jaromir Jagr	Pittsburgh Penguins
1998-99	Jaromir Jagr	Pittsburgh Penguins
1999-00	Jaromir Jagr	Pittsburgh Penguins
2000-01	Jaromir Jagr	Pittsburgh Penguins

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

^That's what we call real dominance^

2006-07	Sidney Crosby	Pittsburgh Penguins
2007-08	Alex Ovechkin	Washington Capitals
2008-09	Evgeni Malkin	Pittsburgh Penguins
2009-10	Henrik Sedin	Vancouver Canucks
2010-11	Daniel Sedin	Vancouver Canucks
2011-12	Evgeni Malkin	Pittsburgh Penguins
2012-13	Martin St. Louis	Tampa Bay Lightning
2013-14	Sidney Crosby	Pittsburgh Penguins
2014-15	Jamie Benn	Dallas Stars
2015-16	Patrick Kane	Chicago Blackhawks

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

^None of these greats were able to string together 2 Art Ross wins in a row. And before you start crying about injuries, Jagr won an Art Ross despite missing 19 games. That's what we call dominance.

2016-17	Connor McDavid	Edmonton Oilers
2017-18	Connor McDavid	Edmonton Oilers

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

^The next truly great player. The most dominant player since Jagr at his peak.

 

[Cor]

Sign with TOR

 

[Weztex]

Jagr has the record as far as I'm concerned. WHA doesn't count.

NHL games

Gordie Howe - 1767
Jaromir Jagr - 1733

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

NHL games

Gordie Howe - 1767
Jaromir Jagr - 1733

You're correct...for some reason the site I checked included WHA and had thr same totals.

 

[Windy River]

Really wanted to see him hit 2k points and get the games record. Sucks that he's so close to both when he's finally starting to wear out. If only he didn't go to the KHL

Starting to wear out??
Talking about a guy who’s prime was before I graduated high school.. over 2 decades ago. I’m not a huge fan of Jagr the personality but damn, he dominated the NHL highlight reel for years. Underated player IMO. As to games played record, I couldn't care less.

 

[czechmate]

Possibly top 10? He's arguably top 20.

What entitlement does he have that he just deserves something? It's questionable if any team even retires his number.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in a long time.

He is ranked just behind Gretzky, Lemieux and Howe with 5 Art Ross trophies. At the same time he is no. 2 in points and no 3. in career goals all time.

 

[Nosferatu]

Still better than #9

 

[jj cale]

Still better than #9

That's a minority opinion if ever there was one.

 

[edog37]

OK, now we know that you know nothing.

Francis signed with the Hurricanes as a free agent.

trade, free agent signing, whatever....semantics. He still left due to Jagr...

 

[edog37]

I'm clearly talking about 97 to 2001, when Lemieux did not play for 3 years and finally came back.

Look what Jagr accomplished when a shell-of-his-former self Lemieux came back in 2001. The amount of points Lemieux put up in his comeback doesn't matter, if you actually watched him play, you'd know he was a shell. Just like the Jagr that put up 123 pts in 2005-2006 was a shell-of-his-former-self.

I did watch him play since 1984. A lot of times in person. You do get that this would have translated into a 140 point season had he played the entire year? That would have blown Jagr's total right out of the water. Now, if you want to say he wasn't '91 or '92 form, sure, but to call him a shell after being out of the league for 3 plus years & then coming back & putting up 76 points in half a season. He then put up 17 points in 18 playoff games that spring. Again, this isn't the definition of a "shell" player.

 

[Troubadour]

trade, free agent signing, whatever....semantics. He still left due to Jagr...

When [mod]?

EDIT: I realize that you wanna remain the opposite of well-informed, but for anyone who cares, Francis signed with the Hurricanes because they offered him a five-year, $20.8 million contract at the more-than-ripe age of 35.

No-one, Pens included, was gonna give him that.

Also, he had played ten seasons as a Whaler, so he knew the organization pretty well.

If you're suggesting Jagr ran Francis out of Pittsburgh (the Pens were at the verge of bankruptcy btw), you need a shrink.

 

[edog37]

When [mod]?

EDIT: I realize that you wanna remain the opposite of well-informed, but for anyone who cares, Francis signed with the Hurricanes because they offered him a five-year, $20.8 million contract at the more-than-ripe age of 35.

No-one, Pens included, was gonna give him that.

Also, he had played ten seasons as a Whaler, so he knew the organization pretty well.

If you're suggesting Jagr ran Francis out of Pittsburgh (the Pens were at the verge of bankruptcy btw), you need a shrink.

Since I lived in Pittsburgh at the time & closely followed the team, yeah, I remember Jagr's antics very well. He was a slightly less version of Antonio Brown. Everything the team did was to placate Jagr. That isn't even in dispute...

 

[Troubadour]

Since I lived in Pittsburgh at the time & closely followed the team, yeah, I remember Jagr's antics very well. He was a slightly less version of Antonio Brown. Everything the team did was to placate Jagr. That isn't even in dispute...

You followed them so closely you don't even know Francis was not traded, yet you know for sure everything the team did was to keep Jagr happy. And it is not even in dispute. Urban legends never are.

Dude, how on Earth would have anyone -- Jagr included -- managed to hypnotize an NHL organization to obey their fancies like that? Are you suggesting owners and general managers of NHL teams are borderline stupid?

 

[Tweed]

You followed them so closely you don't even know Francis was not traded, yet you know for sure everything the team did was to keep Jagr happy. And it is not even in dispute. Urban legends never are.

Dude, how on Earth would have anyone -- Jagr included -- managed to hypnotize an NHL organization to obey their fancies like that? Are you suggesting owners and general managers of NHL teams are borderline stupid?

Now I'm confused. You're either arguing that Jagr dragged mediocre Penguin teams into the playoffs single-handedly and was the sole reason they saw any success (and consequently had them by the balls)... or you're not. Which is it?

 

[Troubadour]

Now I'm confused. You're either arguing that Jagr dragged mediocre Penguin teams into the playoffs single-handedly and was the sole reason they saw any success (and consequently had them by the balls)... or you're not. Which is it?

He definitely used both hands while doing so, therefore he was too busy to have anyone by the balls.

So yeah, you're confused.

To keep it simple. This not a question whether Penguins were dependent on Jagr, but how big (if any) advantage he took of it.

I mean, if Pens fans are about to start scapegoating Jagr for being so good he made them paranoid he might have been machiavellistically pulling the strings, you guys should get together and sue him for some shrink money. Jagr is pretty charitable, has a great sense of humor and all. The problem is, you will have to prove it. And demagogy won't do.

 

[Tweed]

He definitely used both hands while doing so, therefore he was too busy to have anyone by the balls.

So yeah, you're confused.

To keep it simple. This not a question whether Penguins were dependent on Jagr, but how big (if any) advantage he took of it.

I mean, if Pens fans are about to start scapegoating Jagr for being so good he made them paranoid he might have been machiavellistically pulling the strings, you guys should get together and sue him for some shrink money. Jagr is pretty charitable, has a great sense of humor and all. The problem is, you will have to prove it. And demagogy won't do.

Just curious... are you under the impression that professional sports teams don't make personnel decisions and financial commitments revolving around their most profitable assets' preferences and desires, to placate them?

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Oh well

 

[Troubadour]

Just curious... are you under the impression that professional sports teams don't make personnel decisions and financial commitments revolving around their most profitable assets' preferences and desires, to placate them?

I'm under the impression that whatever decisions professional sports teams make, be it at the whim of their pampered stars or just bored owners, athletes themselves are definitely not responsible for those. Athletes don't execute their teams' agendas anywhere but on the pitch, ice and grass.

Unless you bring about Craig Patrick, Ron Francis and ideally Jaro Jagr with all of them agreeing, "yeah, Jaro wanted a C and we decided the best way for that to happen was not to resign Ronny (on resigning whom we had no money anyway)", your speculation is tinfoil-hat-worthy.

I mean, this is speculation based on impression based on momentary need to come up with just about anything.

EDIT: Btw I do believe that the late nineties Jagr could be a major pain in the butt, but I totally don't buy he was behind the Pens not offering a new contract to Francis. If anything, Jagr was benefitting from playing with Ron.

 

[Tweed]

I'm under the impression that whatever decisions professional sports teams make, be it at the whim of their pampered stars or just bored owners, athletes themselves are definitely not responsible for those. Athletes don't execute their teams' agendas anywhere but on the pitch, ice and grass.

Unless you bring about Craig Patrick, Ron Francis and ideally Jaro Jagr with all of them agreeing, "yeah, Jaro wanted a C and we decided the best way for that to happen was not to resign Ronny (on resigning whom we had no money anyway)", your speculation is tinfoil-hat-worthy.

I mean, this is speculation based on impression based on momentary need to come up with just about anything.

Do I think Jagr is the reason Francis left? No.
Do I think the Penguins did everything they possibly could to satisfy Jagr. Yes.
Do I think you understand what it's like to be a fan of the team at that time, and read what we read, hear what we heard, see what we saw, and not feel like we were hostages on some level? Definitely not.

Speaking of Machiavelli... in the spirit of becoming "well-informed", here's a very small taste of what it was like back in the day:
Looking back on Jagr trade: Starkey from '01

I mean, if Pens fans are about to start scapegoating Jagr for being so good he made them paranoid he might have been machiavellistically pulling the strings

We aren't "about to start scapegoating" him... it was a pretty cut-and-dry case-closed conclusion, as evidenced the moment we traded him.