Jared Staal

[Luigi Lemieux]

I will. Mike Richards did the same think that Jordan Staal is doing this year (less goal scoring, a lot more playmaking, more fighting, more hitting) and no one even mentions Richards and elite in the same sentence. Jordan Staal will be a shut-down center who is capable of fifty, maybe sixty points a year.

that sounds like something you're hoping for, not reality. richards was 20/21 yrs old last season. jordan staal turned 18 during training camp. staal is going to be much better than mike richards. jordan has looked better offensively and defensively than eric at the same age. he has world class hands, but is still very raw.

 

[DaveG]

I never thought I'd see the day when a 100 point center could be underrated this much.

welcome to the world of being a Canes fan, it's a fight we've been dealing with for years. Soon as the sightless eye is on a players jersey all hype they might have otherwise had seemingly goes out the window.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

wow he might have 50 points this year if he can stay with malkin

His stats linearly extrapolated to a full 82 games gives him 37 points. How you came up with 50 points is beyond me, especially considering that most players tend to trail off in production by the end of the year.

that sounds like something you're hoping for, not reality. richards was 20/21 yrs old last season. jordan staal turned 18 during training camp. staal is going to be much better than mike richards. jordan has looked better offensively and defensively than eric at the same age. he has world class hands, but is still very raw.

He's also a hell of a lot bigger than the two of them, which he effectively uses to his advantage.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

His stats linearly extrapolated to a full 82 games gives him 37 points. How you came up with 50 points is beyond me, especially considering that most players tend to trail off in production by the end of the year.He's also a hell of a lot bigger than the two of them, which he effectively uses to his advantage.

well, in his last 7 games he has 7 points playing alongside malkin, if he continues that pace, he will end up 55 points. I expect him to have about 45 pts this year, however to claim that he will put up a max of 50-60 pts in his career is sheer stupidity

 

[SomeDude]

Considering the kind of progress Eric made from his rookie season to his sophomore season, you'd expect Jordan to improve alot.

While it was his sophomore NHL season, it was his 3rd pro-season. He played a full season in the AHL during the lockout. Not that it makes it any less impressive, but I think the year in the AHL helped him a lot.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

well, in his last 7 games he has 7 points playing alongside malkin, if he continues that pace, he will end up 55 points. I expect him to have about 45 pts this year, however to claim that he will put up a max of 50-60 pts in his career is sheer stupidity

Is it? His playmaking skills are non-existant. Marty Turco has two less assists than him, and he's a freaking goaltender. Assists, whether it's secondary or primary, are going to constitute a bulk of any player's points. And if he can't start setting up any of his team members with any regularity, his point totals are going to suffer something fierce. I know he's still young, but there is a limit to what people can do over the course of their career with the tools they enter the league with.

 

[SteelCitySaviour]

Is it? His playmaking skills are non-existant. Marty Turco has two less assists than him, and he's a freaking goaltender. Assists, whether it's secondary or primary, are going to constitute a bulk of any player's points. And if he can't start setting up any of his team members with any regularity, his point totals are going to suffer something fierce. I know he's still young, but there is a limit to what people can do over the course of their career with the tools they enter the league with.

Let's look at the assists totals of another 18 year old rookie:

GP 55 G 3 A 4

And who is this player with seemingly equal if not worse "limited tools" ?

Joe Thornton.

Seems to me he improved on his totals just a little after entering the league as an 18 yr old. Jordan started the season playing exclusively on the fourth line and pk. Since earning an increased role and a promotion to the second line, he's put up 13 points in his last 20 games. He's obviously producing better with more icetime, as do all players. His low assist totals are more a reflection of a lack of ES time in the begining of the season as opposed to an indictment of his playmaking skills. Over that same 20-game span, he's contributed 5 assists, which averages out to the same output Eric had at the same age. Not including of course, the 8 goals he scored (3 less than Eric had for the full season).

Interestingly, over the last 20 games...Eric has only scored 3 more points (16-13) than younger bro Jordan. And actually has one less goal.

I can hear all the morons coming out of the woodwork, so yes, as I've stated before, Eric is the better player right now. But Jordan has a fantastic offensive toolset already, at barely 18. I can't believe people are selling this kid short. Besides Crosby (who's from another planet), he's having one of the best seasons of any 18 yr old in recent memory. He's got as many goals as Bergeron did for the whole season right now (and the same goal total this season, fyi)...

Haha as hard as it is to fathom on this board, you are allowed to like more than one player...I think Eric is a fantastic player, and would love to have him on my team. I just believe that Jordan is a better fit for the Pens right now based on his versatilty, and in the future has the ability to be one of the better players in the league. Just because you like Eric doesn't mean you should be blind to Jordan's potential. Actually, **** potential...watch him play and you'll see the skills he has right now.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

Let's look at the assists totals of another 18 year old rookie:

GP 55 G 3 A 4

And who is this player with seemingly equal if not worse "limited tools" ?

Joe Thornton.

Where did I say Joe Thornton had limited tools? You know what, nevermind. I'll just squash this comparison right now.
Jordan Staal's draft year: 68gp 28g 40a 68pts
Joe Thornton's draft year: 59gp 41g 81a 122pts

ISS Scouts on Jordan Staal: Although (Jordan Staal) may never become as offensively productive as Eric, he is a tremendous 2 way player that is excellent in all 3 zones.

Mark Recchi on Joe Thornton: Obviously he's big and strong and he can skate, but he probably has the nicest set of hands for a big guy of anyone except Mario (Lemieux), You just don't see big guys with hands like that too often."

The only thing those two have in common is the age in which they entered the league.

Seems to me he improved on his totals just a little after entering the league as an 18 yr old. Jordan started the season playing exclusively on the fourth line and pk. Since earning an increased role and a promotion to the second line, he's put up 13 points in his last 20 games. He's obviously producing better with more icetime, as do all players. His low assist totals are more a reflection of a lack of ES time in the begining of the season as opposed to an indictment of his playmaking skills. Over that same 20-game span, he's contributed 5 assists, which averages out to the same output Eric had at the same age. Not including of course, the 8 goals he scored (3 less than Eric had for the full season).

Come on, that assist the other night was a gift from Malkin and Ouellet. He did what Jordan Staal does best by making a solid defensive play which set Malkin up for a break away, where he fed Ouellet a perfect pass across the goal crease. Quit trying to play it off like he's some offensive dynamo.

Interestingly, over the last 20 games...Eric has only scored 3 more points (16-13) than younger bro Jordan. And actually has one less goal.

Stanley Cup Hangover. Martin St. Louis, Nikolai Khabibulin and Vinny LeCavalier both went through it, and they rebounded just fine. Look for Eric to do the same while Jordan Staal goes through his sophmore slump.

I can hear all the morons coming out of the woodwork, so yes, as I've stated before, Eric is the better player right now. But Jordan has a fantastic offensive toolset already, at barely 18. I can't believe people are selling this kid short. Besides Crosby (who's from another planet), he's having one of the best seasons of any 18 yr old in recent memory. He's got as many goals as Bergeron did for the whole season right now (and the same goal total this season, fyi)...

He's got 22 points 48 games playing with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Not too impressive.

Haha as hard as it is to fathom on this board, you are allowed to like more than one player...I think Eric is a fantastic player, and would love to have him on my team. I just believe that Jordan is a better fit for the Pens right now based on his versatilty, and in the future has the ability to be one of the better players in the league. Just because you like Eric doesn't mean you should be blind to Jordan's potential. Actually, **** potential...watch him play and you'll see the skills he has right now.

I like Jordan Staal more than any other 'Cane not named Rod Brind'amour, and more than any other player on the Penguins. I'm just not a blind homer who thinks that if you draft some one first or second overall that player has franchise player status. He'll be a shut-down center in the mold of Keith Primeau, without the competative drive. Book it.

 

[McNasty]

I have also read that Jared is the most skilled of the four, i feel Marc will be the best pro simply because offensive defenseman are much more valuable and noteworthy than defensive forwards.

 

[HFNHL Canadiens]

I have also read that Jared is the most skilled of the four, i feel Marc will be the best pro simply because offensive defenseman are much more valuable and noteworthy than defensive forwards.

Marc Staal is not an offensive dman. How many dman in junior who finnish third on there team in dman scoring in there 4th year of junior hockey become offensive dmen without missing ample playing time from injury? I honestly can't think of any. I believe Marc Staal will be a very good pro. But it will be for his defensive shutdown capabilty not his offensive ability.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Is it? His playmaking skills are non-existant. Marty Turco has two less assists than him, and he's a freaking goaltender. Assists, whether it's secondary or primary, are going to constitute a bulk of any player's points. And if he can't start setting up any of his team members with any regularity, his point totals are going to suffer something fierce. I know he's still young, but there is a limit to what people can do over the course of their career with the tools they enter the league with.

well, its generally tough to get assists when you play on the 3/4 line. The only reason he has more goals than assists is because he creates turnovers and knows how to capitalize:

Look at his last 7 games while playing with a respectable center:

7 gp 4 g 3 a..


Not too unbalanced for a goal scorer.

Plus, you use junior statistics to compare thornton and staal, which should never be done, especially considering the role staal was given on his team (and the petes style of play). Im not saying staal will be as good as thornton, but i do know this:

1.) He has a great reach with really soft hands.
2.) He has a large, powerful frame, and can easily knock opponents off the puck, and protect the puck.
3.) Has very good top speed, and will only become a better skater as he matures.
4.) He has a deceptively quick shot and a nose for the net.
5.) Is a great defensive forward, and is one of the best in the league at causing turnovers and capitalizing on them.
6.) Is an extremely smart, responsible, hardworking player

Projecting him to be a keith primeau type player is a mistake.

 

[SteelCitySaviour]

Where did I say Joe Thornton had limited tools? You know what, nevermind. I'll just squash this comparison right now.
Jordan Staal's draft year: 68gp 28g 40a 68pts
Joe Thornton's draft year: 59gp 41g 81a 122pts

Joe was almost a year older than Jordan was in their draft years. How bout we do this instead:

Eric's second year in the OHL (17 years old): 56gp 23g 39a 62pts
Jordan's second year in the OHL (17 years old):68gp 28g 40a 68pts

Pretty similar, eh? Jordan made the cut for the 06 draft by days. Other wise, considering his play this year, it's not hard to think he'd top the 98 points his brother put up as an 18 year old.

The only thing those two have in common is the age in which they entered the league.Come on, that assist the other night was a gift from Malkin and Ouellet. He did what Jordan Staal does best by making a solid defensive play which set Malkin up for a break away, where he fed Ouellet a perfect pass across the goal crease. Quit trying to play it off like he's some offensive dynamo.

Actually the assist was a great example of the fact that not all secondary assists are made equal- the defenseman tried pinching at the wall, giving Jordan absolutely no lane to pass the puck from. Jordan, instead of eating the puck or passing it back in the zone, passes the puck off the glass above the body of the d-man to a streaking Malkin. It was the only play he could have made to initiate the break out. The play was made as much by Staal as it was by Malkin or Ouellet. And try watching the entire game. Staal's insane reach, forechecking, and creativity results in tons of scoring chances. He's not on Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin level as far as being a dynamo, but don't kid yourself thinking he doesn't have the tools to light it up.

And old scouting reports? Please.

Stanley Cup Hangover. Martin St. Louis, Nikolai Khabibulin and Vinny LeCavalier both went through it, and they rebounded just fine. Look for Eric to do the same while Jordan Staal goes through his sophmore slump.He's got 22 points 48 games playing with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. Not too impressive.

Actually he's gotten 22 points playing mostly with Maxime Talbot and Chris Thorburn. He's never played on a line with Crosby (except for the odd 5 on 3) and has only played about 8 games with Malkin.

I like Jordan Staal more than any other 'Cane not named Rod Brind'amour, and more than any other player on the Penguins. I'm just not a blind homer who thinks that if you draft some one first or second overall that player has franchise player status. He'll be a shut-down center in the mold of Keith Primeau, without the competative drive. Book it.

I'm not a blind homer. I can see just fine, thank you. If you can't see that Jordan is going to be a great player, then that's on you not me.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

well, its generally tough to get assists when you play on the 3/4 line. The only reason he has more goals than assists is because he creates turnovers and knows how to capitalize:

Look at his last 7 games while playing with a respectable center:

7 gp 4 g 3 a..


Not too unbalanced for a goal scorer.

First of all, you take a convenient sample in which one of his three assists is a bogus secondary and expect me to just say "Oh it's so obvious. I don't know why I didn't see it before."

Joni Pitkanen 2005-2006
7gp 3g 11a 14pts +14 12PIM ATOI-23:30 minutes

Do you see how flawed that methodology is?

Second, Jordan Staal has a 16:6 goals to assist ratio. Playmakers do not have that kind of disparity between goals and assists regardless of who they are playing with. Mike Richards (yea, you're tired of hearing his name by now) is a natural playmaker and 9 of his assists last year came from setting up Donald Brashear, Brian Savage, and Jon Sim. So it is possible to set-up garbage with scoring chances.

Plus, you use junior statistics to compare thornton and staal, which should never be done, especially considering the role staal was given on his team (and the petes style of play).

You can ignore those stats if you want, but the professional scouting reports speak volumes.

I'm not saying staal will be as good as thornton, but i do know this:

1.) He has a great reach with really soft hands.
2.) He has a large, powerful frame, and can easily knock opponents off the puck, and protect the puck.
3.) Has very good top speed, and will only become a better skater as he matures.
4.) He has a deceptively quick shot and a nose for the net.
5.) Is a great defensive forward, and is one of the best in the league at causing turnovers and capitalizing on them.
6.) Is an extremely smart, responsible, hardworking player

Projecting him to be a keith primeau type player is a mistake.

That's funny because you practically described Primeau word for word. The only difference is the hands. Primes was never regarded as a sniper in Philadelphia. But if it makes you feel any better, ISS had him pegged as a bigger Trevor Linden.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

Joe was almost a year older than Jordan was in their draft years. How bout we do this instead:

Eric's second year in the OHL (17 years old): 56gp 23g 39a 62pts
Jordan's second year in the OHL (17 years old):68gp 28g 40a 68pts

Pretty similar, eh? Jordan made the cut for the 06 draft by days. Other wise, considering his play this year, it's not hard to think he'd top the 98 points his brother put up as an 18 year old.

You're assuming that, because Jordan shares the same genes as his brother Eric, he will follow the same developmental curve as Eric. I'm not going to be able to change your mind of that, but you should take into consideration that their playing styles are as different as night and day; until Jordan puts up 100 points in a season and over a PPG in the playoffs, I can safely say that Jordan's offensive potential is nowhere near that of Joe Thornton's or Eric's.

Actually the assist was a great example of the fact that not all secondary assists are made equal- the defenseman tried pinching at the wall, giving Jordan absolutely no lane to pass the puck from. Jordan, instead of eating the puck or passing it back in the zone, passes the puck off the glass above the body of the d-man to a streaking Malkin. It was the only play he could have made to initiate the break out. The play was made as much by Staal as it was by Malkin or Ouellet. And try watching the entire game. Staal's insane reach, forechecking, and creativity results in tons of scoring chances. He's not on Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin level as far as being a dynamo, but don't kid yourself thinking he doesn't have the tools to light it up.

Sorry, not buying it. He made a good defensive play by chipping the puck out of the zone and was fortunate enough to have Malkin on the receiving end of the puck.

And old scouting reports? Please.

Yea, you got me. That ISS bit was in the 2006 Draft Guide. I tried to pull one over by using a professional source, but what I really should have done is made an HF poll in the Pittsburgh forum.

Actually he's gotten 22 points playing mostly with Maxime Talbot and Chris Thorburn. He's never played on a line with Crosby (except for the odd 5 on 3) and has only played about 8 games with Malkin.

That's my point. When he's not playing with Malkin or Crosby, Staal isn't creating chances for anyone besides himself. He doesn't have a clue on how to utilize his teammates unless that particular player has the skill to take over in the offensive zone.

I'm not a blind homer. I can see just fine, thank you. If you can't see that Jordan is going to be a great player, then that's on you not me.

Great and elite are two very different things. Yea, I think he'll be great. No, I don't think he's elite, or "hall of fame material", like some one else suggested.

 

[nanzenkills]

Projecting him to be a keith primeau type player is a mistake.

If I were a Penguins fan, I would be thrilled for Jordan Staal to become the next Keith Primeau, at least minus the concussions. When healthy, Primeau was dominant physically and could get you 30+ goals and 70+ points a year. If Jordan Staal does that on a consistent basis, I would say he is a great first rounder.

 

[Form and Substance]

Joe was almost a year older than Jordan was in their draft years. How bout we do this instead:

Yeah in dog years.

Thornton: July 2, 1979
Staal: September 10, 1988

That's two months. TWO FREAKING MONTHS!

 

[Spawn]

I hope the Oilers draft him, and he makes the Oilers just so we can have Jarret Stoll and Jared Staal in the same lineup

 

[orcatown]

I think there is little doubt that, given this year in the NHL, Jordan is better than Eric was at the same age. At this point it's difficult to argue that he won't be at least as good as Eric.

I think it kind of amazing that the Staals seem to make these quantum leaps in their play from year to year. Given how he looked last year it would have been hard to predict so much success for Jordan. Got to factor that in when evaluating the potentail of Jared.

 

[Randall Graves*]

I explained why I'd take Jordan now. I didn't say he was the better player now, if you'd get off your high horse for just a moment. I said the Pens have plenty of offensive players, three of which have have more points than Eric, not to mention two defensemen who are within 8 points of him. Jordan is a tremendous defensive player on top of being able to score 25-30 goals this year. And if you bother to read anything, you'll see that I don't believe Jordan is good based soley on +/-...read a little bit before sounding off like an asshat.

Tell me why picking an incredibly sound defensive player with good offensive skills over a player on pace for 70 points and no defensive game is stupid? The aim of the game isn't to have a group of players with the best looking stats, it's to assemble the best team. We need Jordan's defense- we don't need Eric's offense.

I've said it time and time before, Eric is the better player right now but Jordan is the better fit for this team right now. So how about instead of trying to belittle me opinion, you back yours up with something besides snide comments.

Ahh the ineviteable ______ players have more points than Staal argument.

I love how people here try to cut down Staal when he CLEARLY is having a Cup hangover, this year is NOT a true indicator of the player he is and will be. He showed us last year and in the playoffs who he is and 50 games of a season won't change my opinion on the guy...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

First of all, you take a convenient sample in which one of his three assists is a bogus secondary and expect me to just say "Oh it's so obvious. I don't know why I didn't see it before."

Joni Pitkanen 2005-2006
7gp 3g 11a 14pts +14 12PIM ATOI-23:30 minutes

Do you see how flawed that methodology is?

Second, Jordan Staal has a 16:6 goals to assist ratio. Playmakers do not have that kind of disparity between goals and assists regardless of who they are playing with. Mike Richards (yea, you're tired of hearing his name by now) is a natural playmaker and 9 of his assists last year came from setting up Donald Brashear, Brian Savage, and Jon Sim. So it is possible to set-up garbage with scoring chances.You can ignore those stats if you want, but the professional scouting reports speak volumes.That's funny because you practically described Primeau word for word. The only difference is the hands. Primes was never regarded as a sniper in Philadelphia. But if it makes you feel any better, ISS had him pegged as a bigger Trevor Linden.

First of all, thats not just a "convenient sample", its actually his last 7 games when playing on a line with evgeni malkin, which he never did all year. Im not a pens fan, im actually more of a hurricanes fan (went to all the games in the playoffs, even though i am a devils fan).

Secondly, how was his last assist bogus? he made the play, he created the 2 on 1, which is what playmakers do. I dont know if youve ever watched staal play, but your using numbers way too much in your argument here. Its early in his career, by the end of the season i wouldnt be surprised to see his goals/assits ratio much smaller. I personally expect him to have something like 25 goals and 20 assists by the end of the year.

Lastly, while he does have a similar style of play to primeau, he will be a better player, think of him as a richman's primeau. And since you love stats so much, lets do this:

Primeau's rookie year at 19:
58 GP 3 G 12 A 15 PTS

Jordan Staal's rookie year at 18:
48 GP 16 G 6 A 22 PTS

Eric Staal's Rookie Year at 18/19:
81 GP 11 G 20 A 31 PTS

JStaal has noticeably better numbers than the other two, and while you can argue EStaal and Primeau were playing in a lower scoring era, if JStaal can continue to keep pace playing with Malkin, he could hit 50 pts.

 

[Redwingsfan]

i cant imagine how it would feel for jared if he doesnt make the nhl.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I would gladly take a flier on him in the 2nd round. The kid is only 16 years old, give him 6 years development and I bet he will be a good NHL'er. 16 year olds shouldn't even be in CHL.

 

[bleedgreen]

i think the biggest difference between jordan and eric is their body styles. eric is made of toothpicks and jordan looks like a linebacker. i match both their sizes and i can tell you from watching eric that he has a ton of improvement ahead of him. if you can find pics of joe thorton 18-22, youd a see a guy who looks a lot more like eric than jordan. im not saying jordan isnt and wont be awesome, just that despite the age difference, eric is still growing into his body and jordan is already pretty comfortable in his. it makes a big difference, i didnt get comfortable with my frame (6'4 180 at 18....200 at 26) until my midtwenties and i became a much better player when i did. it cracked me up watching eric ugly duckling his way through his rookie year.

people develop differently, even brothers. judging their career potential by comparing 18 year old stats is short-sighted and meaningless. at 18 eric skated like a newborn colt, and jordan skates like a floating brick wall. in five years jordan could be exactly the same and eric could still be improving. see thorton and samsonov. samsonov had 30 goals as an 18 year old and big bird joe was awful. sergei was used to his body, which never really changed from that point. he never improved either. that could be the case here as well. jordan could be peaking physically now, and could never progress much further that way. also see jason arnott for an example.

 

[Boocock]

but I'd rather have the other Staal on the Penguins right nowsimply because he's a much better fit on this team than Eric is.

You should be more clear that you would rather have Jordan for the Pens, not that you think Jordan is the better player.

LOL!

Anyway, yeah, Jared is worth a low-level draft pick. If he plays anywhere near the level of defensive game that Jordan plays, he'd definitely be worth it.

Stats aren't everything. He could be amazing in his own zone.

Does anyone know how good of a defensive forward he is? Jared could end up being the Captain of the Devils with those sort of skills.

 

[RUSqueelin*]

i think the biggest difference between jordan and eric is their body styles. eric is made of toothpicks and jordan looks like a linebacker. i match both their sizes and i can tell you from watching eric that he has a ton of improvement ahead of him. if you can find pics of joe thorton 18-22, youd a see a guy who looks a lot more like eric than jordan. im not saying jordan isnt and wont be awesome, just that despite the age difference, eric is still growing into his body and jordan is already pretty comfortable in his. it makes a big difference, i didnt get comfortable with my frame (6'4 180 at 18....200 at 26) until my midtwenties and i became a much better player when i did. it cracked me up watching eric ugly duckling his way through his rookie year.

people develop differently, even brothers. judging their career potential by comparing 18 year old stats is short-sighted and meaningless. at 18 eric skated like a newborn colt, and jordan skates like a floating brick wall. in five years jordan could be exactly the same and eric could still be improving. see thorton and samsonov. samsonov had 30 goals as an 18 year old and big bird joe was awful. sergei was used to his body, which never really changed from that point. he never improved either. that could be the case here as well. jordan could be peaking physically now, and could never progress much further that way. also see jason arnott for an example.

how do you figure that Jordan has grown into his body already?