Neutrinos
Registered User
- Sep 23, 2016
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I thought this was an interesting comparison, so have at it!
Who ya taking?
Who ya taking?
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Vinny didn't really have a peak. He had 2 really good seasons and a bunch of average years.
I'm not trying to be a smartarse here, but isn't that almost the the perfect definition of a peak, albeit a small one?
A peak should be at least 3 years min in my eyes.
It's obviously too early to predict Benn's final status but I would go with Lecavalier here. Certainly in terms of peak play, anyway. From 2004 to 2006, he was in the conversation as best player in the world. I know Benn has his Art Ross and three seasons in a row of 1st/2nd-team All Star, but that speaks (to me) more of the weakness of competition than his personal greatness. (Not wanting to diss Benn, whom I like, but his 2015 Art Ross is perhaps the 'weakest' such in recent memory.)
We're saying Lecavalier had two peak seasons, and that's right, but he also was MVP of the World Cup and had another (probable) peak season, 2004-05, wiped out. Also, he did put up five straight 30+ goal seasons (effectively six, as he missed five games and scored 29 after that). And that doesn't include the wiped out season, or we'd be looking at seven straight. Vinnie was also very strong in the 2004, 2007, and 2011 (post-peak) playoffs, though it's too early to judge Benn on that.
Okay, 2006 to 2008, whenever it was. Just saying he was briefly in that conversation.I really doubt that anyone was talking about Lecavalier as the “best player in the world” before his 2006-07 season. And even if people were talking about him in that way was it really much more than the way people talked about Benn after he won the Art Ross and followed it up with a 2nd place scoring finish?
Lecavalier’s best season is probably better than Benn’s, but Benn has the clear advantage in atleast their best 2-4 seasons.
Lecavalier had a great peak from 2006 to the end of 2007. That’s 1.5 seasons where he was among the best in the world. I think considering Lecavalier ahead of someone like Lidstrom or Thornton or Brodeur after that would have been very short-sighted. It’s exactly like calling Benn the best player in the world from 2014-2016 ahead of someone like Crosby.
Well, you chose a number as a hard line, that isn't related to any real-world aspect of the game (i.e., they don't give out awards for "best three year stretch" or anything). That's the definition of arbitrary.In what way?
In what way?
Benn beat a 27 year old Crosby for the art Ross. Lecavalier lost to a 19 year old Crosby for the art Ross
In that you have determined a players peak must be "at least three years" when a peak would be when he was at his best, not when he was at his best for a random amount of time that you have decided.
Well, you chose a number as a hard line, that isn't related to any real-world aspect of the game (i.e., they don't give out awards for "best three year stretch" or anything). That's the definition of arbitrary.
Now, drawing an arbitrary line is necessary if we wanted to do any evenhanded and comprehensive comparison of several players' "peak" - gotta define your parameters - but it's maybe not necessary when just casually discussing one guy.
For what it's worth, I think "peak" can be anything as small as a half-season or so, but "prime" is the word you'd need more for.
Correct, because it's my opinion. That is my criteria, yours is different.
I remember commentators on TV suggesting Vinnie was the best forward in the NHL c.2007, but I don't recall anyone saying that about Jamie Benn, but I could be wrong.
arbritrary.
Sure, why not? I don't think it would be crazy to suggest that Sidney Crosby's peak level of play came in one of the partial seasons he played between 2010 and 2013, the highest P/G of which he achieved in only 22 games. And you could argue that said 22 game season wasn't just a hot streak because plenty of people thought Sid was capable of scoring at a 140 point pace, and that having concussion symptoms flare up is not the same as going cold. So if the question is "at what point was Crosby's level of play the highest", you could go with those 22 games, or you could make the argument that he went through similarly hot stretches at other times and usually ended up with somewhat lower totals when he played full seasons. Neither of which is declaring an arbitrary cutoff number.If you want to go by that, someone could consider a 20 game stretch as someone's "peak".