James Van Riemsdyk

[deadhead]

I think it’s wildly disingenuous to say Toronto didn’t give a thought to signing him, especially because of his talent level. It’s a whole different narrative letting him walk when you have the embarrassment of riches at forward they do.

There is absolutely a niche on most teams—including the flyers—for wingers who put up goals at the rate he has historically done so. In addition, and I cannot believe I’m agreeing with @deadhead, he has not had a deleterious impact on opponent scoring this year either. If and when we have a healthy Patrick and frost and farabee are up to stay, then jvr becomes replaceable. But not before.

Toronto knew going into FA they had JT lined up, but they needed the cap room to sign him.
So they let JVR and Bozak walk, which was about equal to JT's $11M.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Toronto knew going into FA they had JT lined up, but they needed the cap room to sign him.
So they let JVR and Bozak walk, which was about equal to JT's $11M.

100% accurate. I’m scoffing at those who are positing that JVR isn’t a valuable roster player.

 

[tictactoe]

You have to skate fast enough to get into the camera angle to be seen backchecking.

I did not see fast skating either.

 

[Limeyjim]

Scoring is stochastic, making plays is the key observable.

It's fun to make fun of JVR, but he became a solid two way forward in Toronto, paired with Bozak, and has played well this year despite shifting centers.
The guy struggling isn't JVR, who'll get his goals, but Voracek, who seems lost under AV's scheme.

Am I surprised that Jake is lost? No.
However, everyone loves Jake.....and his stats are usually posted in his favour.
I have a feeling AV is not very happy with Jake's style of play.
We'll see how this turns out throughout this season.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[deadhead]

Goals are more important than points, I think there's about 2.25 points per goal, but one goal per goal.
That is, while playmaking is important, finishing plays (scoring goals) is more important.

Of course, the most important part of player value is their contribution to winning games, but that's harder to quantify, I'm a bit skeptical of WAR (even in baseball, Baseball Reference and Fansgraphs, the two primary sources, have a substantial divergence in their WAR calculations), but it's the best we have for now.c

NHL teams would rather pay for points than wins

 

[Appleyard]

Goals are more important that points, I think there's about 2.25 points per goal, but one goal per goal.
That is, while playmaking is important, finishing plays (scoring goals) is more important.

Of course, the most important part of player value is their contribution to winning games, but that's harder to quantify, I'm a bit skeptical of WAR (even in baseball, Baseball Reference and Fansgraphs, the two primary sources, have a substantial divergence in their WAR calculations), but it's the best we have for now.c

NHL teams would rather pay for points than wins

And the #1 and #2 players in the NHL in WAR since the start of the 2017 season are... (hint, both Flyers!)

I agree it is far from perfect as well. I prefer xWAR in a lot of ways. But still think it has issues.

 

[tictactoe]

all i wanna know is he going to HOF?

 

[Appleyard]

all i wanna know is he going to HOF?

Haha. No. Will not be close. And should not be either.

 

[wankstifier]

Our tall, fat pigeon causes fits around the net

 

[Jtown]

And the #1 and #2 players in the NHL in WAR since the start of the 2017 season are... (hint, both Flyers!)

I agree it is far from perfect as well. I prefer xWAR in a lot of ways. But still think it has issues.

with JVR the only advanced stat that I look for is his ExOb %

 

[tictactoe]

Haha. No. Will not be close. And should not be either.

corsi stats are great... because Raffl can be better than couturier... it can be proven on game to game basis. of course. short period of time.

 

[deadhead]

Corsi does matter, but so does goal scoring and goal suppression.

I mean you want to possess the puck, score with the puck, but on the 45% of the time the other team has the puck (even a top possession team only has Corsi in the 55% range) you want to keep them from scoring.

Problem is measuring and weighting these different aspects of the game.

JVR is an elite goal scorer, average to above average playmaker, above average possession guy.
His defense was bad to start his career, got much better in Toronto with Bozak, slipped last year but seems to be above average again this year.
He'll never be a Selke candidate, but as long as he's above average on defense he's a top 6 forward.

 

[BlackandOrange]

I noticed JVR has cut down on his mouth guard chewing. He needs to pick it back up, if he wants to maintain his title as Captain Mouthguard.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am thankful for this observation

 

[Caesar]

JVR has played pretty poorly this year. Lack of urgency in pursuing pucks in the corners of the offensive zone, never backchecks. He's a big player that plays a very soft game.

Needs to capitalize on his scoring chances more.

 

[BritainStix]

JVR has played pretty poorly this year. Lack of urgency in pursuing pucks in the corners of the offensive zone, never backchecks. He's a big player that plays a very soft game.

Needs to capitalize on his scoring chances more.

I disagree with this. He's been getting a massive amount of chances, he just hasn't been able to score any of them. It's becoming quite farcical at this point.

He would have 10 goals more in any other season

 

[Caesar]

I disagree with this. He's been getting a massive amount of chances, he just hasn't been able to score any of them. It's becoming quite farcical at this point.

He would have 10 goals more in any other season

At some point, you gotta be able to finish. It's really great to generate a ton of chances and scoring chances, but if you can't capitalize on them, it's all moot. The Flyers have lots of players who can generate chances: Giroux, Voracek, Konecny, Frost, Hayes, Farabee, etc. JVR needs to finish on them.

He needs to up the urgency and effort.

 

[Richard88]

Would Flyers be interested in trading Van Riemsdyk to Colorado?

If so, what would you want in return (without retention / with ~$1m retention)?

 

[deadhead]

Would Flyers be interested in trading Van Riemsdyk to Colorado?

If so, what would you want in return (without retention / with ~$1m retention)?

We have a bunch of young forwards coming up this year and next, so for the right offer, JVR would be available.
Problem is the one player we'd want you're not going to give, which is Maker.

Ideally, a young player or two who would be ED exempt, someone like Martin Kaut (6'2 190 RW) or Connor Timmins (RHD, 6'2 183).

Problem is you'd need us to take salary back (JVR costs $7M), I don't see anyone you'd want to dump.
I mean are you unhappy with Kadri ($4.5M)?
Namenstikov would clear $3.25M, Calvert $2.85M, Wilson $2.6M, Compher $3.5M, Donskoi $3.9M
Thing is we don't need one of your forwards, so we'd be taking on salary to close the deal, not as value in a trade.

 

[Richard88]

We have a bunch of young forwards coming up this year and next, so for the right offer, JVR would be available.
Problem is the one player we'd want you're not going to give, which is Maker.

Ideally, a young player or two who would be ED exempt, someone like Martin Kaut (6'2 190 RW) or Connor Timmins (RHD, 6'2 183).

Problem is you'd need us to take salary back (JVR costs $7M), I don't see anyone you'd want to dump.
I mean are you unhappy with Kadri ($4.5M)?
Namenstikov would clear $3.25M, Calvert $2.85M, Wilson $2.6M, Compher $3.5M, Donskoi $3.9M
Thing is we don't need one of your forwards, so we'd be taking on salary to close the deal, not as value in a trade.

How about Zadorov for Van Riemsdyk ($2m retained)? Alternatively Jost+ but I figure you don't want another C with Frost in the pipeline.

I don't think I need to mention that Makar isn't getting traded unless you have a McDavid or Draisatl to offer us.

 

[Tripod]

How about Zadorov for Van Riemsdyk ($2m retained)? Alternatively Jost+ but I figure you don't want another C with Frost in the pipeline.

I don't think I need to mention that Makar isn't getting traded unless you have a McDavid or Draisatl to offer us.

Provy
Sanheim
Ghost
Hagg
Zamula
York
Kalynuk
Morin

We don't need a LHD. Would rather trade JVR for straight picks/prospects if they do move him.

 

[deadhead]

How about Zadorov for Van Riemsdyk ($2m retained)? Alternatively Jost+ but I figure you don't want another C with Frost in the pipeline.

I don't think I need to mention that Makar isn't getting traded unless you have a McDavid or Draisatl to offer us.

Zadorov has limited value for us, he's a LHD when we need a RHD, he'd have to be exposed in the ED (though we'll expose better players) and he's just not that good. He's better than Hagg, but Hagg is our 7th D-man.

That's why I gave the name of those two prospects, we'd like to build up RHD depth.

Jost would be a solid pickup but he's too much like Frost. But he could probably be flipped to a third team.
So it could be something like Jost, Timmins, we take on of those forwards off your hands and retain some salary.

Thing is we're dealing from a position of strength, we have the cap room to keep JVR, then expose him in the ED, buying a year for our young forwards to step up (JVR is already been pushed to 3LW by Farabee at age 19). If Oskar Lindblom completely recovers, we've got no room at the inn going into the ED.

 

[TCTC]

Yeah, I don't think the Flyers and Avs are good trade partners. The players I'd be interested in won't be available and the rest is depth players that wouldn't improve us. Not much inbetween.