Waived: Jakub Kindl

[Pavels Dog]

Hell, you could say the same thing about Quincey. We've just spent pretty much the entire season without him and haven't looked all that different. Sure, he's an asset, but if you're getting a better defenseman back, fire away with Helm, Quincey and non-roster assets.

I don't know, anytime Kindl's been on the ice or we've had a PK, I've been wishing for Quincey's return. Marchenko's strong play has helped, but certainly going into the playoffs I'd want Quincey to play over Kindl/Smith.

Then they should trade him ASAP and bring in AA.

In retrospect, it's sort of amazing that they let Hudler and Filppula walk for nothing. I'd hate to see the same happen with Helm (even if he's less valuable).

It's not amazing at all, it's what happens when you're a playoff team. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Inspiration]

In retrospect, it's sort of amazing that they let Hudler and Filppula walk for nothing. I'd hate to see the same happen with Helm (even if he's less valuable).

I can't stand this logic. They didn't get nothing for Hudler and Filppula: they got 2-3 more months of production out of them that they wouldn't have had they traded them. That has value. Every year we see teams place value on this production by giving up assets for players they fully intend to let walk at the end of the year (often called "rentals").

 

[HockeyinHD]

Right? All they're doing is perpetually increasing the salaries of the mediocre talents that have kept them stagnated for half a decade at this point.

They've extended Howard, Ericsson, Kronwall, Abdelkader and Nyquist.

Man, you guys do like to go into full hyperbole mode when you describe the nature and type of transaction that occur.

They have three players on the roster who came from outside the system - Miller, Richards and Green. One of those will be gone next year. One has spent the last 7 seasons with the Wings and really his whole full-time career here. So they could effectively enter next season with literally 1 organizational outsider in Green with the only important guys looking to progress in a significant way being Larkin and Mrazek - arguably the two who are keeping your head above water this year.

I love this line of reasoning. I mean, I literally love it. We now have a way to criticize Holland for drafting too many NHL-level players. There is now a mechanism in place to criticize him if he drafts well, doesn't draft well, signs a UFA, doesn't sign a UFA, makes a trade, does not make a trade, retains a FA, or lets them walk.

Sweet.

Find a way to get rid of Kindl. Let go of Quincey and Helm. Explore the market for Howard. Move some actual roster talent for new faces. We can't keep the status quo.

Sure we can, as long as the status quo involves making the playoffs every year. Making the playoffs every year and losing in the first or second round annoys you, obviously, but you're in the minority. Fans would rather have a team making the playoffs every year than not.

Further still, the organization wants to make the playoffs every year. It makes them some extra money and it advances The Streak (that they like). Even if it came to a fan vote, you'd lose. And even if you won a fan vote, you'd still lose.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I can't stand this logic. They didn't get nothing for Hudler and Filppula: they got 2-3 more months of production out of them that they wouldn't have had they traded them. That has value. Every year we see teams place value on this production by giving up assets for players they fully intend to let walk at the end of the year (often called "rentals").

100% correct.

 

[Ricelund]

I don't know, anytime Kindl's been on the ice or we've had a PK, I've been wishing for Quincey's return. Marchenko's strong play has helped, but certainly going into the playoffs I'd want Quincey to play over Kindl/Smith.


It's not amazing at all, it's what happens when you're a playoff team. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I can't stand this logic. They didn't get nothing for Hudler and Filppula: they got 2-3 more months of production out of them that they wouldn't have had they traded them. That has value. Every year we see teams place value on this production by giving up assets for players they fully intend to let walk at the end of the year (often called "rentals").

Yes, where oh where would the Red Wings be without Jiri Hudler's 2012 season or Val Filppula's outstanding 2013 season?

It's just another case of the management not knowing what they had until it was too late. Tatar and Nyquist probably could've replaced these two much sooner than they did... meaning Hudler and Filppula could've been dealt (for pretty solid assets) before they walked for nothing -- just like AA and Helm now. Just like Quincey and Chelios or Lebda or whoever it was in 2009. Just like them trading for Legwand to "protect" Sheahan in 2014.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Yes, where oh where would the Red Wings be without Jiri Hudler's 2012 season or Val Filppula's outstanding 2013 season?

Playing the result.

It's just another case of the management not knowing what they had until it was too late. Tatar and Nyquist probably could've replaced these two much sooner than they did

Or not.

... meaning Hudler and Filppula could've been dealt (for pretty solid assets) before they walked for nothing -- just like AA and Helm now. Just like Quincey and Chelios or Lebda or whoever it was in 2009. Just like them trading for Legwand to "protect" Sheahan in 2014.

It's odd how people always like to do rounds of Playing The Result in the direction that reaffirms their opinion, as though reality itself would shift around their opinion to make their decision stand up regardless of other potential outcomes.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I missed this article, that makes way more sense.

They are just accounting for LTIR, I wouldn't call that an internal cap. Guess that is semantics though.

So glad Holland wasted buyouts on Tootoo and Colaiacovo and not on Franzen.

 

[Inspiration]

Yes, where oh where would the Red Wings be without Jiri Hudler's 2012 season or Val Filppula's outstanding 2013 season?

It's just another case of the management not knowing what they had until it was too late. Tatar and Nyquist probably could've replaced these two much sooner than they did... meaning Hudler and Filppula could've been dealt (for pretty solid assets) before they walked for nothing -- just like AA and Helm now. Just like Quincey and Chelios or Lebda or whoever it was in 2009. Just like them trading for Legwand to "protect" Sheahan in 2014.

Tatar/Nyquist and Hudler/Filppula were not mutually exclusive options in the Red Wings lineup in the same way that Athanasiou and Helm are not today. Nyquist actually played for the Wings in both the '12 and '13 playoffs. Will the Wings do the same with Athanasiou this year? I don't know. There still an entire half-season worth of injuries to come that could reshape this roster.

Ultimately, why not keep as many good players as you can to give yourself the best chance of success? Will the Wings win the Cup this year? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that retaining assets for a playoff run is (or was, in the case of '12 and '13) a bad idea.

 

[Ricelund]

Ultimately, why not keep as many good players as you can to give yourself the best chance of success? Will the Wings win the Cup this year? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that retaining assets for a playoff run is (or was, in the case of '12 and '13) a bad idea.

Look, I understand the logic behind keeping Hudler and Filppula. I don't think Holland is a lunatic for doing so. It's just pretty amazing to look at the cumulative assets out vs. assets in since 2009.

 

[Fugu]

He's not framing it that way though. He's framing it as though LTIR rules are literally forcing these moves. They have options beyond that. If Chicago can weasel out of much worse cap issues every single summer, the Wings should be able to do so as well if absolutely necessary.

If he clarifies his comment along those lines, at least it will make some sense per your point. But they would still have options, unattractive as they may be.

It also worries me that they're saving cap space for Helm, who should not be re-signed.

Oh, I know he mangled the wording on it. In essence, he needs cap space to activate players on LTIR. If you add players to the roster to replace an LTIR player, you're getting both cap hits. It's just that the CBA would allow you to exceed the cap ceiling in doing so, if necessary. However, that cap hit STILL counts. And if you go over the cap for bonuses or LTIR, that gets added to next year's cap.

If he's saving room with LTIR, activating a guy as soon as he's ready, then he's not double paying, so-to-speak. He knows he's got bonus money and buyout hits that will already take some of next year's cap. He's just trying to save that space.

So glad Holland wasted buyouts on Tootoo and Colaiacovo and not on Franzen.

The problem with Franzen is that he's on one of those nasty 10-12 yrs contracts. Thanks to the last CBA (which came after that contract was signed), buying out a player isn't as simple as that 2/3rds remaining over 2x the term. They put in a different formula so you pay back the cap benefit you received by adding those stretch years at the end. Furthermore, I'm not sure you can buy out a guy on IR, but I'm not certain of that, though that doesn't really help them as much as one would hope.

 

[Heaton]

In hindsight, Holland should've used the amnesty buyout on Franzen, he's was pretty broken down at that point as well.

 

[Fugu]

In hindsight, Holland should've used the amnesty buyout on Franzen, he's was pretty broken down at that point as well.

Wasn't that something we all were discussing at the time, Franzen and Weiss?

 

[Heaton]

Wasn't that something we all were discussing at the time, Franzen and Weiss?

Yeah, I think so. I just don't know how Holland and the rest of the brain trust thought it would end positively for a guy that already had multiple brain traumas. But Holland has made more than a few bizarre decisions since 2009.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I can't stand this logic. They didn't get nothing for Hudler and Filppula: they got 2-3 more months of production out of them that they wouldn't have had they traded them. That has value. Every year we see teams place value on this production by giving up assets for players they fully intend to let walk at the end of the year (often called "rentals").

thats not true, the teams also got the production from those rentals

 

[Inspiration]

thats not true, the teams also got the production from those rentals

That is what I am trying to say. Trading an X round draft pick for a "rental player" is the essentially same proposition as declining to trade a player in the final year of his contract for an X round draft pick. In both instances, a team is valuing the few months of production over the potential compensation they could have received.

 

[joe89]

Yeah, I think so. I just don't know how Holland and the rest of the brain trust thought it would end positively for a guy that already had multiple brain traumas. But Holland has made more than a few bizarre decisions since 2009.

That would've required some serious balls, and I doubt it was ever much discussion about it coming off 41 points in 54 games for $3.9M. The big problems started the season after.

 

[boyblair]

Will the mule ever return?

Jacobs level is ahl

 

[Ricelund]

Will the mule ever return?

Nope.

 

[f1seb]

I'm a little late to the party but I'm glad the guy who probably scored more goals on his own goalies than for his team is now gone. Too bad about that 2.4 mil though.

 

[Run the Jewels]

In hindsight, Holland should've used the amnesty buyout on Franzen, he's was pretty broken down at that point as well.

That's exactly what I was getting at when I referenced Tootoo and Colaiacovo. Unfortunately Holland et al were like "you can't go to Meijer thrifty acres and buy 30 goal scorers"

 

[mindfly]

So will KFQ be able to play today against the Kings?

 

[korrowan]

So will KFQ be able to play today against the Kings?

Miller was injured in the 3rd and has to get an MRI. Maybe he will be back on IR and solve the problem.

 

[odin1981]

Might not be enough to clear the cap. Given 1/2 the season being done we owe him around 600k left so that should mean he needs to clear 400-500k. If they need to clear 1 million. And that is only if he has a major injury and is out for the rest of the season. If it is just a minor injury or so that frees up like 100k if he is out for 1-2 weeks.

 

[mindfly]

Miller was injured in the 3rd and has to get an MRI. Maybe he will be back on IR and solve the problem.

Kenny's thinking: "Phew, just what the doctors ordered".

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So will KFQ be able to play today against the Kings?

Yep with Millers Injury he should be, I believe he's on the bottom pairing with Marchenko.