Player Discussion Jake Virtanen (MOD WARNING POST 755)

[4Twenty]

You definitely don’t know hockey because you think Calgary got a steal with the Tanev deal.

Imagine going from Roussel, Gaudette/Sutter to J.T Miller and Pettersson. There’s 3 players to a line just like there is 2 players to a pairing, Virtanen by himself cannot carry play against teams like the Blues/Golden Knights. You gotta take your head out of the box score and watch the 5 man units play.

He sparked the top line in a critical moment. We can’t find a player like him in free agency.

Is this about the fluke wrap around? We’ve seen him try that to little success for half a decade plus. One moment isn’t enough to say he changed the series. The series didn’t really change. Vegas’ shots just stopped going in. Vegas still dictated the play.

 

[member 328930]

I would be very interested to see how much the Aqualinis are putting the brakes on Benning here. Rumour here was the AZ deal had more money going out in terms of real cash in the coming year...and then rumour here was Aqualini would not pay Stecher.....whether these are true or not, who knows...but maybe Aqualini is looking st next year with little or no gate revenue and pushing Jim to reduce real payroll.

I just can’t see Benning, on his own, choosing not to give Markstrom or Tanev what they wanted. The guys negotiating tactic has been to give the player a signed blank check and then bend over.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I would be very interested to see how much the Aqualinis are putting the brakes on Benning here. Rumour here was the AZ deal had more money going out in terms of real cash in the coming year...and then rumour here was Aqualini would not pay Stecher.....whether these are true or not, who knows...but maybe Aqualini is looking st next year with little or no gate revenue and pushing Jim to reduce real payroll.

I just can’t see Benning, on his own, choosing not to give Markstrom or Tanev what they wanted. The guys negotiating tactic has been to give the player a signed blank check and then bend over.

I'm starting to think the same thing. I mean there really isn't a huge need to put the best product on the ice from Aqua man's perspective if we aren't going to have gate revenue and fans.

A bit worried actually as in general we have been pretty spoiled being a cap team who can do whatever is necessary to compete $$ wise. Getting the sense there are some definite restrictions in place. Makes you appreciate the fact that we have been able to spend freely (even if it's by a guy acting like he just got his allowance and is excited to go and blow it).

With the flat cap and no rev it looks like Benning has been told that he's got to dig himself out of this mess - not spend himself out of it. Which isn't necessarily a horrible thing.........

 

[Disappointed EP40]

You definitely don’t know hockey because you think Calgary got a steal with the Tanev deal.

Imagine going from Roussel, Gaudette/Sutter to J.T Miller and Pettersson. There’s 3 players to a line just like there is 2 players to a pairing, Virtanen by himself cannot carry play against teams like the Blues/Golden Knights. You gotta take your head out of the box score and watch the 5 man units play.

He sparked the top line in a critical moment. We can’t find a player like him in free agency.

Sure. And that other guy doesn't know hockey because of whatever he said.

You know hockey. You're a renown expert. Virtanen is a god. He totally shows up to camp in shape, he totally doesn't mail it in 95% of the time.

You know hockey. Everyone that disagrees with you doesn't know hockey.

 

[deckercky]

I just can’t see Benning, on his own, choosing not to give Markstrom or Tanev what they wanted. The guys negotiating tactic has been to give the player a signed blank check and then bend over.

For all his flaws, Benning clearly has developed year to year.

 

[Get North]

Is this about the fluke wrap around? We’ve seen him try that to little success for half a decade plus. One moment isn’t enough to say he changed the series. The series didn’t really change. Vegas’ shots just stopped going in. Vegas still dictated the play.

Re-watch the Blues game 5.

 

[member 328930]

For all his flaws, Benning clearly has developed year to year.

No he hasn’t.

 

[deckercky]

No he hasn’t.

Are you truly taking the position that his moves last 2-3 years are as bad as the moves he made over his first 2-3 years?

I don't care if you think his moves are good or even competent - he's a much better gm than he was when he started.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Are you truly taking the position that his moves last 2-3 years are as bad as the moves he made over his first 2-3 years?

I don't care if you think his moves are good or even competent - he's a much better gm than he was when he started.

...

Out: Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli, Stecher.
In: Holtby.

But he's getting better!

No words.

 

[THE Green Man]

Are you truly taking the position that his moves last 2-3 years are as bad as the moves he made over his first 2-3 years?

I don't care if you think his moves are good or even competent - he's a much better gm than he was when he started.

That’s an incredibly low bar though, not exactly impressive

 

[Cupless44]

Are you truly taking the position that his moves last 2-3 years are as bad as the moves he made over his first 2-3 years?

I don't care if you think his moves are good or even competent - he's a much better gm than he was when he started.

Weird timing to say that when this off season is clearly demonstraiting how incompetent he is.

27 million dollars in brutal signings for bad players has tied his hands as we watch good players walk for nothing due to no cap space. Some of us knew Bennings signings were awful the minute they were signed. Terrible roster management to be cap strapped after being a bottom feeding team for years that should have been rebuiling properly and should have had lots of cap space.

 

[member 328930]

I wonder how it’s playing out with Pettersson that the team chose Virtanen over Toffoli?

 

[THE Green Man]

Weird timing to say that when this off season is clearly demonstraiting how incompetent he is.

27 million dollars in brutal signings for bad players has tied his hands as we watch good players walk for nothing due to no cap space. Some of us knew Bennings signings were awful the minute they were signed. Terrible roster management to be cap strapped after being a bottom feeding team for years that should have been rebuiling properly and should have had lots of cap space.

“But cap space doesn’t matter when you’re rebuilding”

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Might be a clerical error, but something to keep an eye on.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Looks like it was a clerical error.

 

[Melvin]

My bad.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

My guess if they agree before hand - 2 years, $2.6m AAV.

My guess if he goes to arbitration - 1 year, $2.85m.

 

[4Twenty]

He's getting 3 plus if it gets to the hearing I have zero doubts. The RFA's with similar single season stat lines last season got paid over 3, sometimes over 5 and he's also not coming off of his ELC like some of those.

I can't remember if arbitrators care about hits, but Jake has those too

I think you're only allowed to use the previous years comparables, but I could be wrong, but I think these are the RFA winger comps Jakes (0.52ppg):


Konecny: 49 points in 82 (0.60ppg), 6 x $5.5m
Fiala: 39 points in 83 games (0.47ppg), 2 x $3.0m
Buchnevich: 38 points in 64 games (0.59ppg) 2 x $3.25m
Kapanen: 44 points in 78 games (0.56ppg) 3 x $3.2m
Johnsson: 43 in 73 games (0.59ppg) 4 x $3.4m
Compher: 32 points in 66 games (0.48ppg) 4 x $3.5m


I don't remember all that goes into an arbitration case and which party gets to choose the term, but I imagine Virtanen's agent sees all these guys with at least 2 year deals, and at least $6m. I think they'd push for 2. Not sure if they can though. With the comparables above I think we'll see an award of: 1-year $3.1m

 

[Fatass]

My guess if they agree before hand - 2 years, $2.6m AAV.

My guess if he goes to arbitration - 1 year, $2.85m.

How many more years before Jake gets to UFA status? Maybe we want to sign him for 3 or 4 years, and at a lower cap hit, like 2 million?

 

[Fatass]

He's getting 3 plus if it gets to the hearing I have zero doubts. The RFA's with similar single season stat lines last season got paid over 3, sometimes over 5 and he's also not coming off of his ELC like some of those.

I can't remember if arbitrators care about hits, but Jake has those too

I think you're only allowed to use the previous years comparables, but I could be wrong, but I think these are the RFA winger comps Jakes0.52ppg):


Konecny: 49 points in 82 (0.60ppg), 6 x $5.5m
Fiala: 39 points in 83 games (0.47ppg), 2 x $3.0m
Buchnevich: 38 points in 64 games (0.59ppg) 2 x $3.25m
Kapanen: 44 points in 78 games (0.56ppg) 3 x $3.2m
Johnsson: 43 in 73 games (0.59ppg) 4 x $3.4m
Compher: 32 points in 66 games (0.48ppg) 4 x $3.5m


I don't remember all that goes into an arbitration case and which party gets to choose the term, but I imagine Virtanen's agent sees all these guys with at least 2 year deals, and at least $6m. I think they'd push for 2. Not sure if they can though. With the comparables above I think we'll see an award of: 1-year $3.1m

Thanks for that well presented information. We should try and sign Jake for term, and get his annual cap as low as possible.

 

[F A N]

I don't remember all that goes into an arbitration case and which party gets to choose the term, but I imagine Virtanen's agent sees all these guys with at least 2 year deals, and at least $6m. I think they'd push for 2. Not sure if they can though. With the comparables above I think we'll see an award of: 1-year $3.1m

The club gets to choose the term in this case.

 

[Fatass]

The club gets to choose the term in this case.

Is that their choice after the arbitrator awards the money amount? If Jake is awarded 2.8, could the Canucks select a three year term?

 

[StreetHawk]

How many more years before Jake gets to UFA status? Maybe we want to sign him for 3 or 4 years, and at a lower cap hit, like 2 million?

Generally it’s the other way around when you are talking about 24 year olds. It costs more for more years and less for fewer years.

min year 2 of his elc he spent almost all of it in the A. Thus he should need 3 more seasons to become ufa in 2023.

 

[F A N]

Is that their choice after the arbitrator awards the money amount? If Jake is awarded 2.8, could the Canucks select a three year term?

You have to make your election in your arbitration briefs so it would be prior to the arbitration award. If you don't make an election then it will be one year.

 

[sting101]

His agent has literally said they are looking for 2.6 to 3 million for 2yrs. I would think the flat cap and what is going on could see the Canucks push him down a little to 2.3 or 2.5 possibly.
Team may need the arbitration though to move out Sutter if they cant find a suitor by then for some cap relief.
Trading him in this environment would be asinine unless its for a similar aged and priced player. Hayden Fleury i would do but we need his 20 goals and speed also so hopefully they just sort the money out enough to get Leivo Virtanen and Gaudette back and call it a day with 1 min wage D to tag up with OJ Rafferty and Benn on the btm pair from time to time.