Player Discussion Jake Virtanen (MOD WARNING POST 755)

[Bougieman]

Trading him,this will come back and bite us in the ass..just saying...

The only way trading him will bite the Canucks in the butt is simply the pathetic return they're going to get for a player who was drafted fifth overall, and had nearly 20 goals last year. That's it. Right now getting him off the team and allowing another player to take his spot is addition by subtraction. Every game this season the team is noticeably better when Jake is not on the ice.

 

[Canucks LB]

Kid is waiver material honestly.
The reason he is not traded yet is pretty clear nobody wants him.
Just my thoughts 2bh

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

I actually thought he looked serviceable in the few minutes he played.
One thing I think is odd though, if you watch him, on the Defensive side of the puck he comes back as a Right winger and on the offensive side he generally appears to play on the Left side, including most of his offensive zone entries. Someone can probably verify my eye test. Maybe Greener should simplify it and let him play on the left side, as it generally means he is criss-crosing from wing to wing in the neutral zone. Perhaps this is by design.

He did play most of his last junior year in Calgary as a Centre when Tambellini was injured so maybe he is used to roaming.

 

[Fatass]

Kid is waiver material honestly.
The reason he is not traded yet is pretty clear nobody wants him.
Just my thoughts 2bh

Imo he’s too heavy, and lacks aerobic fitness. I doubt his off ice habits are very professional.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Normally players are put into a position where they can succeed.
Last year he played up the lineup.
Look at what Virtanen sees when he gets to the rink this year:

Loui Eriksson - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

2020-21

Vancouver Canucks

NHL

4

0

1

1

-2

0

|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jay Beagle - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

2020-21

Vancouver Canucks

NHL

20

1

4

5

0

6

|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[brock hughes007]

The only way trading him will bite the Canucks in the butt is simply the pathetic return they're going to get for a player who was drafted fifth overall, and had nearly 20 goals last year. That's it. Right now getting him off the team and allowing another player to take his spot is addition by subtraction. Every game this season the team is noticeably better when Jake is not on the ice.

He is capable of scoring 20 goals,he almost had that last season.Jake is not the only player that has been struggling on this team,,Miller ,Petty,Bo,,have not been lights out either..just saying...I do believe he will be moved,, and a new coach will get him on track...hope its not a repeat of Neely..lol

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He is capable of scoring 20 goals,he almost had that last season.Jake is not the only player that has been struggling on this team,,Miller ,Petty,Bo,,have not been lights out either..just saying...I do believe he will be moved,, and a new coach will get him on track...hope its not a repeat of Neely..lol

I know your comment was tongue in cheek. But a 22 year old Neely put up 36 goals and 36 assists in 75 games in his first year in Boston. Jake’s 24 and will be 25 this summer. I don’t think we need to worry about him becoming Neely at this point.

 

[IslandBeast]

I actually thought he looked serviceable in the few minutes he played.
One thing I think is odd though, if you watch him, on the Defensive side of the puck he comes back as a Right winger and on the offensive side he generally appears to play on the Left side, including most of his offensive zone entries. Someone can probably verify my eye test. Maybe Greener should simplify it and let him play on the left side, as it generally means he is criss-crosing from wing to wing in the neutral zone. Perhaps this is by design.

He did play most of his last junior year in Calgary as a Centre when Tambellini was injured so maybe he is used to roaming.

Your position in the offensive zone is irrelevant, unless you're a d-man

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

I do think many people focus on Virtanen's offensive output when they don't apply the same scrutiny to oussel, erickson, sutter, beagle and even gaudette.
I suppose this is natural but by most objective criteria they are in the same underwhelming offensive output category but lack the upside of Virtanen and all of them make more money than Virtanen and only two of them have ever scored more goals in a season than Virtanen.

 

[Fatass]

I know your comment was tongue in cheek. But a 22 year old Neely put up 36 goals and 36 assists in 75 games in his first year in Boston. Jake’s 24 and will be 25 this summer. I don’t think we need to worry about him becoming Neely at this point.

Neely was (likely still is) a highly competitive athlete, who played mean. Jake lacks compete, and is soft. Jake would be more enjoyable as a fishing buddy though.

 

[Hit the post]

I know your comment was tongue in cheek. But a 22 year old Neely put up 36 goals and 36 assists in 75 games in his first year in Boston. Jake’s 24 and will be 25 this summer. I don’t think we need to worry about him becoming Neely at this point.

And even if Neely had hands of stone, he was a legit heavy middleweight fighter.

 

[4Twenty]

I do think many people focus on Virtanen's offensive output when they don't apply the same scrutiny to oussel, erickson, sutter, beagle and even gaudette.
I suppose this is natural but by most objective criteria they are in the same underwhelming offensive output category but lack the upside of Virtanen and all of them make more money than Virtanen and only two of them have ever scored more goals in a season than Virtanen.

It’s because Virtanen has natural talents that these other guys couldn’t dream of and he wastes it and looks lost out there.

He’s by far the dumbest hockey player on the team. He has no clue where to go offensively or defensively.

He needs to get off the team. Eriksson looks more effective.

Virtanen is going to dine out on his almost 20 goal season like Granlund did isn’t he....plenty of players can pot 18 in the league. The good ones do it consistently. Jake is not a good one.

He’s not long for the league imo.

 

[Hit the post]

plenty of players can pot 18 in the league. The good ones do it consistently. Jake is not a good one.

He’s not long for the league imo.

Here’s a guy that did it for us :

Shawn Matthias Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[calnuck]

I do think many people focus on Virtanen's offensive output when they don't apply the same scrutiny to oussel, erickson, sutter, beagle and even gaudette.
I suppose this is natural but by most objective criteria they are in the same underwhelming offensive output category but lack the upside of Virtanen and all of them make more money than Virtanen and only two of them have ever scored more goals in a season than Virtanen.

Disagree. Every gdt is chock full of criticism about all of them, except maybe Gaudette, but it's still there. The problem is upside only matters if it comes to fruition. Tons of players have come into the league with tremendous upside and never panned out. At this point it's clear that it is extremely unlikely he ever turns into the player his upside projects he can be, at least here in Vancouver. It's time to give him the Hodgson treatment and move on and try and get at least something out of him in a trade.

 

[Fatass]

I do think many people focus on Virtanen's offensive output when they don't apply the same scrutiny to oussel, erickson, sutter, beagle and even gaudette.
I suppose this is natural but by most objective criteria they are in the same underwhelming offensive output category but lack the upside of Virtanen and all of them make more money than Virtanen and only two of them have ever scored more goals in a season than Virtanen.

Jake needs to play effectively without the puck. Plus, imo, he’s overweight, and lacks the off ice commitment all those guys you listed have. Jake himself has said he needs to earn te trust of his teammates.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

I found it interesting that some players get twice as much ice time as Virtanen even when they aren't producing:



Maybe there is a trade there that would disappoint both teams.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. Patrick is a gamble worth taking. Still a chance he turns it around if he can stay healthy.

 

[M2Beezy]

Hes still young, id still give him a few years before righting him off. Just needs a good off seasons training with the teams captain Bo Horvat

 

[Fatass]

I found it interesting that some players get twice as much ice time as Virtanen even when they aren't producing:



Maybe there is a trade there that would disappoint both teams.

Seriously doubt Flyers would trade Patrick for Jake, but that would be fantastic if it happened.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Hes still young, id still give him a few years before righting him off. Just needs a good off seasons training with the teams captain Bo Horvat

He's 25 soon. That's not young anymore.

 

[StreetHawk]

Hes still young, id still give him a few years before righting him off. Just needs a good off seasons training with the teams captain Bo Horvat

Bo has a kid now and is based in Ontario. Didn't Jake train with Myers in the off season in Kelowna?

Jake's the younger guy without kids. Up to him to make the sacrifice to go to another player's home residence city if he wants to train with them.

If you are so worried about Jake coming back to haunt you, then send him to the East where you see him twice a season and never in the playoffs unless you both make the Cup finals. Jake is 2 years from UFA.

I'd use him to try to get a Dman that another team can't protect in the ED or swap for another forwrad that hasn't delivered yet. For example, Carolina, if they extend Hamilton, would have Jake Bean eligible for the ED.

 

[StreetHawk]

Seriously doubt Flyers would trade Patrick for Jake, but that would be fantastic if it happened.

The salary cap would make it too difficult for Philly to make that move.

They need to extend Sanheim and Hart in the off-season and need a backup goalie. If Patrick hasn't produced then he's likely only going to get the minimum increase on his sub $1 million cap hit. Unless Philly can move Ghost (who after his Signing Bonus would have $4.25 mill total cash owing over 2 years to free up cap space.), it wouldn't make sense to add the extra $1.5 mill from Jake. If they moved Ghost, then they could make that move.

 

[Hit the post]

Hes still young, id still give him a few years before righting him off.

If he was a defenseman, sure; or even a center. But a winger (25 years old this August)?

Seems like he'll turn out like another Grabner. Puts together a solid season followed by several forgettable ones.

 

[1440]

Posted this in the management thread, but it seems more relevant here.

Jake Virtanen is who Jake Virtanen is. He is his own worst enemy. We absolutely should have cashed out on his production last year and traded him. He did not change anything about his game, he just had more shots go in.

View attachment 399104

You could look at this data in either a pessimistic or optimistic light:

Pessimistic: He got lucky last year. Something like: "JV had a career year, shot an unsustainable 12%, scored 18 goals and is now regressing. NHL average shooing percentage is 7.8% (since 09-10 advent of modern NHL stats-tracking), so we expect him to be closer to that mark in the future."

Optimistic. He is getting unlucky this year. Something like: "JV was a career 9.2% shooter prior to this year, but showed solid growth over the past three seasons, increasing his shooting percentage from 7.7 to 12% over that time. We project a further increase to ~13.4% this year, but he is only shooting 4%. He should have ~3 goals instead on the 1 he has so far."

The reality is somewhere in between. True the NHL average shooting percentage is 7.8%, but it is 9.5% for forwards and 9.7% for right-wingers. Virtanen may not be an elite shooter, but his G/60, EVG/60, Post and Crossbars/60 (a stat where he is elite at 0.46 compared to his peers at 0.1) and especially his G/USAT (6.3% versus 5.6% average for right-wingers) suggest that he is an efficient and accurate shooter for his position. Something just slightly north of 10% shooting seems reasonable, which given his career 9% average suggests that he may have some room to grow. He, like the Canucks in general, has been an unlucky shooter this year, generating only 1 goal on 1.8iXG (per Natural Stat Trick). This is likely in part because he has been most commonly deployed with tremendously poor assist-creators in Beagle and Eriksson and has seen his PP time diminish by 10 seconds/game (0:53 to 0:43) compared to last year.

In short, Jake's under-performance this year is likely more anomalous than his over-performance last year. Yes, he should have been shopped after a good year last year, but to trade him now (at an all-time low in value) would be a foolhardy exercise, and to buy him out would be even more foolish given his above-average goal-scoring ability and (overall) upwards-trending career trajectory. Even if it is not the Canucks, I am all but certain someone will make of him a multi-year 20-goal scorer.

 

[4Twenty]

$2.5m in cap space is more valuable than jake.

Over his last 41 regular season games he has 13 points.

This includes one of his hot streaks with 6 points in 4 games.

So a 26 point paced winger who had half his production on 4 games.

Not scared one iota of losing him or him coming back to haunt.

Hopefully a GM will offer a pick for him.