Player Discussion Jake Virtanen

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Mr. Canucklehead, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. It's phishing season. Members should beware of an email informing them their password is about to expire. You should delete it. This is a scam to steal passwords.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. Bougieman Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,108
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Publisher
    Location:
    Vancouver
    The only way trading him will bite the Canucks in the butt is simply the pathetic return they're going to get for a player who was drafted fifth overall, and had nearly 20 goals last year. That's it. Right now getting him off the team and allowing another player to take his spot is addition by subtraction. Every game this season the team is noticeably better when Jake is not on the ice.
     
  2. Lucbourdon Stay Positive, and keep the good vibes going. Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    64,853
    Likes Received:
    10,590
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Kid is waiver material honestly.
    The reason he is not traded yet is pretty clear nobody wants him.
    Just my thoughts 2bh
     
    Luckylarry likes this.
  3. Izzy Goodenough Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2020
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    46
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    I actually thought he looked serviceable in the few minutes he played.
    One thing I think is odd though, if you watch him, on the Defensive side of the puck he comes back as a Right winger and on the offensive side he generally appears to play on the Left side, including most of his offensive zone entries. Someone can probably verify my eye test. Maybe Greener should simplify it and let him play on the left side, as it generally means he is criss-crosing from wing to wing in the neutral zone. Perhaps this is by design.

    He did play most of his last junior year in Calgary as a Centre when Tambellini was injured so maybe he is used to roaming.
     
    HockeyWooot likes this.
  4. Luckylarry Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    13,425
    Likes Received:
    7,257
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Imo he’s too heavy, and lacks aerobic fitness. I doubt his off ice habits are very professional.
     
  5. Izzy Goodenough Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2020
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    46
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    vanuck likes this.
  6. brock hughes007 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2019
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    195
    Trophy Points:
    36
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    medical
    Location:
    victoria
    He is capable of scoring 20 goals,he almost had that last season.Jake is not the only player that has been struggling on this team,,Miller ,Petty,Bo,,have not been lights out either..just saying...I do believe he will be moved,, and a new coach will get him on track...hope its not a repeat of Neely..lol
     
  7. WetcoastOrca Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    28,993
    Likes Received:
    8,778
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I know your comment was tongue in cheek. But a 22 year old Neely put up 36 goals and 36 assists in 75 games in his first year in Boston. Jake’s 24 and will be 25 this summer. I don’t think we need to worry about him becoming Neely at this point.
     
    420Canuck and Luckylarry like this.
  8. IslandBeast Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2015
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    61
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    V.I
    Your position in the offensive zone is irrelevant, unless you're a d-man
     
  9. Izzy Goodenough Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2020
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    46
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    I do think many people focus on Virtanen's offensive output when they don't apply the same scrutiny to oussel, erickson, sutter, beagle and even gaudette.
    I suppose this is natural but by most objective criteria they are in the same underwhelming offensive output category but lack the upside of Virtanen and all of them make more money than Virtanen and only two of them have ever scored more goals in a season than Virtanen.
     
    vanuck likes this.
  10. Luckylarry Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    13,425
    Likes Received:
    7,257
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Neely was (likely still is) a highly competitive athlete, who played mean. Jake lacks compete, and is soft. Jake would be more enjoyable as a fishing buddy though.
     
  11. Hit the post I have your gold medal Zippy!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    15,840
    Likes Received:
    6,557
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Slacker
    Location:
    Hiding under WTG's bed...
    And even if Neely had hands of stone, he was a legit heavy middleweight fighter.
     
    WetcoastOrca likes this.
  12. 420Canuck Shocking reboot

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2018
    Messages:
    6,264
    Likes Received:
    6,506
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    It’s because Virtanen has natural talents that these other guys couldn’t dream of and he wastes it and looks lost out there.

    He’s by far the dumbest hockey player on the team. He has no clue where to go offensively or defensively.

    He needs to get off the team. Eriksson looks more effective.

    Virtanen is going to dine out on his almost 20 goal season like Granlund did isn’t he....plenty of players can pot 18 in the league. The good ones do it consistently. Jake is not a good one.

    He’s not long for the league imo.
     
    Bougieman likes this.
  13. Hit the post I have your gold medal Zippy!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    15,840
    Likes Received:
    6,557
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Slacker
    Location:
    Hiding under WTG's bed...
    VasilievPodslovin likes this.
  14. calnuck Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    119
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    CA
    Disagree. Every gdt is chock full of criticism about all of them, except maybe Gaudette, but it's still there. The problem is upside only matters if it comes to fruition. Tons of players have come into the league with tremendous upside and never panned out. At this point it's clear that it is extremely unlikely he ever turns into the player his upside projects he can be, at least here in Vancouver. It's time to give him the Hodgson treatment and move on and try and get at least something out of him in a trade.
     
  15. Luckylarry Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    13,425
    Likes Received:
    7,257
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Jake needs to play effectively without the puck. Plus, imo, he’s overweight, and lacks the off ice commitment all those guys you listed have. Jake himself has said he needs to earn te trust of his teammates.
     
  16. Izzy Goodenough Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2020
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    471
    Trophy Points:
    46
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    I found it interesting that some players get twice as much ice time as Virtanen even when they aren't producing:



    Maybe there is a trade there that would disappoint both teams.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 10:53 AM
    HockeyWooot likes this.
  17. VasilievPodslovin Unfair Huggy Bear

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,664
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Port Coquitlam, BC
    I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. Patrick is a gamble worth taking. Still a chance he turns it around if he can stay healthy.
     
    Luckylarry likes this.
  18. Erub ot Ynligom OBJECTIVE hockey fan

    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Messages:
    33,694
    Likes Received:
    12,271
    Trophy Points:
    171
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Hes still young, id still give him a few years before righting him off. Just needs a good off seasons training with the teams captain Bo Horvat
     
  19. Luckylarry Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    13,425
    Likes Received:
    7,257
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Seriously doubt Flyers would trade Patrick for Jake, but that would be fantastic if it happened.
     
  20. VasilievPodslovin Unfair Huggy Bear

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,664
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Port Coquitlam, BC
    He's 25 soon. That's not young anymore.
     
  21. StreetHawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    10,477
    Likes Received:
    3,190
    Trophy Points:
    131
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Bo has a kid now and is based in Ontario. Didn't Jake train with Myers in the off season in Kelowna?

    Jake's the younger guy without kids. Up to him to make the sacrifice to go to another player's home residence city if he wants to train with them.

    If you are so worried about Jake coming back to haunt you, then send him to the East where you see him twice a season and never in the playoffs unless you both make the Cup finals. Jake is 2 years from UFA.

    I'd use him to try to get a Dman that another team can't protect in the ED or swap for another forwrad that hasn't delivered yet. For example, Carolina, if they extend Hamilton, would have Jake Bean eligible for the ED.
     
  22. StreetHawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    10,477
    Likes Received:
    3,190
    Trophy Points:
    131
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    The salary cap would make it too difficult for Philly to make that move.

    They need to extend Sanheim and Hart in the off-season and need a backup goalie. If Patrick hasn't produced then he's likely only going to get the minimum increase on his sub $1 million cap hit. Unless Philly can move Ghost (who after his Signing Bonus would have $4.25 mill total cash owing over 2 years to free up cap space.), it wouldn't make sense to add the extra $1.5 mill from Jake. If they moved Ghost, then they could make that move.
     
  23. Hit the post I have your gold medal Zippy!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    15,840
    Likes Received:
    6,557
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Slacker
    Location:
    Hiding under WTG's bed...
    If he was a defenseman, sure; or even a center. But a winger (25 years old this August)?

    Seems like he'll turn out like another Grabner. Puts together a solid season followed by several forgettable ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 1:12 PM
  24. 1440 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    61
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Posted this in the management thread, but it seems more relevant here.

    You could look at this data in either a pessimistic or optimistic light:

    Pessimistic: He got lucky last year. Something like: "JV had a career year, shot an unsustainable 12%, scored 18 goals and is now regressing. NHL average shooing percentage is 7.8% (since 09-10 advent of modern NHL stats-tracking), so we expect him to be closer to that mark in the future."

    Optimistic. He is getting unlucky this year. Something like: "JV was a career 9.2% shooter prior to this year, but showed solid growth over the past three seasons, increasing his shooting percentage from 7.7 to 12% over that time. We project a further increase to ~13.4% this year, but he is only shooting 4%. He should have ~3 goals instead on the 1 he has so far."

    The reality is somewhere in between. True the NHL average shooting percentage is 7.8%, but it is 9.5% for forwards and 9.7% for right-wingers. Virtanen may not be an elite shooter, but his G/60, EVG/60, Post and Crossbars/60 (a stat where he is elite at 0.46 compared to his peers at 0.1) and especially his G/USAT (6.3% versus 5.6% average for right-wingers) suggest that he is an efficient and accurate shooter for his position. Something just slightly north of 10% shooting seems reasonable, which given his career 9% average suggests that he may have some room to grow. He, like the Canucks in general, has been an unlucky shooter this year, generating only 1 goal on 1.8iXG (per Natural Stat Trick). This is likely in part because he has been most commonly deployed with tremendously poor assist-creators in Beagle and Eriksson and has seen his PP time diminish by 10 seconds/game (0:53 to 0:43) compared to last year.

    In short, Jake's under-performance this year is likely more anomalous than his over-performance last year. Yes, he should have been shopped after a good year last year, but to trade him now (at an all-time low in value) would be a foolhardy exercise, and to buy him out would be even more foolish given his above-average goal-scoring ability and (overall) upwards-trending career trajectory. Even if it is not the Canucks, I am all but certain someone will make of him a multi-year 20-goal scorer.
     
    vanuck and HockeyWooot like this.
  25. 420Canuck Shocking reboot

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2018
    Messages:
    6,264
    Likes Received:
    6,506
    Trophy Points:
    101
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    $2.5m in cap space is more valuable than jake.

    Over his last 41 regular season games he has 13 points.

    This includes one of his hot streaks with 6 points in 4 games.

    So a 26 point paced winger who had half his production on 4 games.

    Not scared one iota of losing him or him coming back to haunt.

    Hopefully a GM will offer a pick for him.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"