Player Discussion Jake Virtanen

[krutovsdonut]

virtanen is still 22 years old. he is visibly maturing in interviews and to me is not as iq limited as a yakupov or paajarvi. if he can learn to be a reliable 3rd liner, it's an interesting question where he goes from there with his skills. i will enjoy watching.

 

[M2Beezy]

He looks really bad. At one point it was hoped he could be a David Booth type winger. Now that even seems like a dream. The problem is that he is dumb as bricks and will never be a good defensive player, so if he isn't shooting and hitting lots, he's a pretty worthless player.

No clue who your talking about but this is the VIRTANEN thread bub, so take your mysterious criticism to the appropriate thread

 

[Fire Benning]

Empty net goal leaders last yr:

1. 7g - Grabner
2. 6g- Staal
T-3. 5g - Trocheck, Marleau, Zucker
T-6. 4g - Domi, Hertl, Marchessault, Echiel, Seguin, Kopitar, Malkin
T-13. 3g - Schaller........
T-37. 2g - Beagle, Motte, Eriksson, Sutter....


Virtanen has already matched last year's ENG total with one.

We have a potentially pretty potent Empty net scoring team this year.

That's assuming we're going to be defending lots of leads..

 

[DL44]

That's assuming we're going to be defending lots of leads..

Almot half our games..
like most teams.
fair assumption.

 

[thefutures]

Still any real upside here? Even if its a slow progression whats realistic to expect

 

[bbud]

Still any real upside here? Even if its a slow progression whats realistic to expect

Well his overall play is much better than last year shows some flashes that make you think he has more yet still think he can be a solid power forward yet the tools are there now has actually working at being a better player maturing I think mid 20s he will be a key part of this team.

 

[Icebreakers]

One thing he doesn't have or may never have is the ability to play with his linemates. He's a solo dash kind of guy. Just plug him in to a certain line and hope he does something cool or physical.

 

[Svencouver]

One thing he doesn't have or may never have is the ability to play with his linemates. He's a solo dash kind of guy. Just plug him in to a certain line and hope he does something cool or physical.

I think he would do well on Bo's line eventually. Both are speedy hard-to-the-net types (or at least we hope Jake does more of that) and both often have to play the solo-dash style since nobody can keep up with them on the rush. A one-two punch of Jake and Bo going to the net would be lethal if everything panned out well, considering their speed and size.

I'm really liking Jakes game this year. He's already producing on a pace that exceeds previous career totals by a decent amount - and I feel like he could easily be producing more. He creates some of the most dangerous chances on the team. His ability to poke the puck free, create turnovers, barrel past the blue line, and then create space for himself with his speed is really impressive. There was an interesting article on this phenomenon last year...

Virtanen's going to score a bunch of goals: A look at the underlying numbers

His shot is looking a bit better this year too. I think Green is, if my intuition is correct, really pushing him to drive to the net/shoot more often, which should mean either more bounces for linemates to finish on or more goals for him. I, personally, still haven't given up on Jake. I still think he could be a 40-50 point guy who provides a physical presence, which is invaluable in a playoff lineup. It will honestly depend on whether or not he dials in his lethal shot - which was a calling card for him in his junior years. Maybe playing with Boes and Petey will give him something to learn from. Looked good on his last goal!

 

[pitseleh]

I think he would do well on Bo's line eventually. Both are speedy hard-to-the-net types (or at least we hope Jake does more of that) and both often have to play the solo-dash style since nobody can keep up with them on the rush. A one-two punch of Jake and Bo going to the net would be lethal if everything panned out well, considering their speed and size.

I'm really liking Jakes game this year. He's already producing on a pace that exceeds previous career totals by a decent amount - and I feel like he could easily be producing more. He creates some of the most dangerous chances on the team. His ability to poke the puck free, create turnovers, barrel past the blue line, and then create space for himself with his speed is really impressive. There was an interesting article on this phenomenon last year...

Virtanen's going to score a bunch of goals: A look at the underlying numbers

His shot is looking a bit better this year too. I think Green is, if my intuition is correct, really pushing him to drive to the net/shoot more often, which should mean either more bounces for linemates to finish on or more goals for him. I, personally, still haven't given up on Jake. I still think he could be a 40-50 point guy who provides a physical presence, which is invaluable in a playoff lineup. It will honestly depend on whether or not he dials in his lethal shot - which was a calling card for him in his junior years. Maybe playing with Boes and Petey will give him something to learn from. Looked good on his last goal!

We now have 150 games of Jake shooting at 6.5% at even strength (including 7% last year and 5.8% this year). The hardness of his shot doesn't seem to be an issue, so there is something else going on (likely accuracy and/or deception). Hopefully we get lucky and he figures it out.

I think something between David Booth and Raffi Torres is a reasonable projection for Virtanen. Not sure he will ever drive play like Booth did in his prime, but he will be a bigger physical presence. Similarly, I don't think he will be as fearsome of a player as Torres, but he will probably drive play better, though score on a lower proportion of his shots.

 

[Svencouver]

We now have 150 games of Jake shooting at 6.5% at even strength (including 7% last year and 5.8% this year). The hardness of his shot doesn't seem to be an issue, so there is something else going on (likely accuracy and/or deception). Hopefully we get lucky and he figures it out.

I think something between David Booth and Raffi Torres is a reasonable projection for Virtanen. Not sure he will ever drive play like Booth did in his prime, but he will be a bigger physical presence. Similarly, I don't think he will be as fearsome of a player as Torres, but he will probably drive play better, though score on a lower proportion of his shots.

Where did you find that 5.8 statistic? From what I can tell he's shooting 9.5% on the year at ES with 2 goals on 21 shots.

Speaking of advanced stats, here's where we're at based off of 13 games so far to start the year.

14 takeaways, on pace for 88 on the season - up from 51 in 75 games last year.
3 giveaways, on pace for 18 - down from 32 last year
65.7 shots through percentage - up from 53.1% last year

He's down a bit on possession statistics, but I feel that's pretty easily explained by his slightly more defensive role this year playing with Sutter and taking on a few more D zone starts.

I really doubt he stays at 6.5% shooting forever as a guy who was marketed on his shot - especially since his shooting % has only been going up for every year he's been in the league...

 

[pitseleh]

Where did you find that 5.8 statistic? From what I can tell he's shooting 9.5% on the year at ES with 2 goals on 21 shots.

Speaking of advanced stats, here's where we're at based off of 13 games so far to start the year.

14 takeaways, on pace for 88 on the season - up from 51 in 75 games last year.
3 giveaways, on pace for 18 - down from 32 last year
65.7 shots through percentage - up from 53.1% last year

He's down a bit on possession statistics, but I feel that's pretty easily explained by his slightly more defensive role this year playing with Sutter and taking on a few more D zone starts.

I really doubt he stays at 6.5% shooting forever as a guy who was marketed on his shot - especially since his shooting % has only been going up for every year he's been in the league...

The number is from Corsica. It doesn't count Jake's empty netter. He's got 1 goal in 17 shots at 5v5.

 

[Svencouver]

The number is from Corsica. It doesn't count Jake's empty netter. He's got 1 goal in 17 shots at 5v5.

Ah, I was looking at Even Strength and not 5v5.

 

[lawrence]

Ah, I was looking at Even Strength and not 5v5.

there are some fans here that want to see him struggle for life, just have to accept it.

 

[Svencouver]

there are some fans here that want to see him struggle for life, just have to accept it.

I guess. Improvement is improvement IMO and Jake has done nothing but improve over his career. I don't know if I'd say people want him to fail, because it is absolutely understandable having high standards for a player of his pedigree and draft position. It's not like pitseleh ever really projected wishes of failure over his posts to me, though.

 

[NucksRock]

One thing he doesn't have or may never have is the ability to play with his linemates. He's a solo dash kind of guy. Just plug him in to a certain line and hope he does something cool or physical.

I've seen him being more patient with the puck recently, he seems to be cycling well, moving the puck back to the point when he needs to. Sure he's no playmaker, he's a finisher but he's improved in that area already this year.

I'd personally love to see him with Goldy and Petterson. Get in there on the forecheck, have someone who can feed his speed, and in spots. Plus he can be the physical winger they need.

 

[NucksRock]

I think he would do well on Bo's line eventually. Both are speedy hard-to-the-net types (or at least we hope Jake does more of that) and both often have to play the solo-dash style since nobody can keep up with them on the rush. A one-two punch of Jake and Bo going to the net would be lethal if everything panned out well, considering their speed and size.

I'm really liking Jakes game this year. He's already producing on a pace that exceeds previous career totals by a decent amount - and I feel like he could easily be producing more. He creates some of the most dangerous chances on the team. His ability to poke the puck free, create turnovers, barrel past the blue line, and then create space for himself with his speed is really impressive. There was an interesting article on this phenomenon last year...

Virtanen's going to score a bunch of goals: A look at the underlying numbers

His shot is looking a bit better this year too. I think Green is, if my intuition is correct, really pushing him to drive to the net/shoot more often, which should mean either more bounces for linemates to finish on or more goals for him. I, personally, still haven't given up on Jake. I still think he could be a 40-50 point guy who provides a physical presence, which is invaluable in a playoff lineup. It will honestly depend on whether or not he dials in his lethal shot - which was a calling card for him in his junior years. Maybe playing with Boes and Petey will give him something to learn from. Looked good on his last goal!

Great post. I think part of it is Jake is embracing his role now, and saying ok, you want me on the third line, I am going to show I can do that extremely well and play my 'role', which he is now doing. He is getting some PP time although on a weak 2nd unit, but could use some more 'offensive' time to start finding that part of his game. A big part of scoring in the NHL is being put in the position for offensive icetime with offensive players, that's not yet what Jake has been given and he's starting to earn it. The more opportunities you get, the more your game improves offensively if you have talent - practice makes perfect. More looks you get, more the chances you find your offensive game.

What i have noticed, is he doesn't go to the dirty areas enough other than when he drives the net. Perhaps its a function of being in a defensive role/on a defensive line, where chances offensively are slim, but if he can start finding ways to play like Burrows did, getting into the blue paint and finding some garbage, I think we may see him find that offensive game.

I think he is still trying to score the way he did in junior (for the most part) which is off the rush, and from outside. Problem is, in the NHL, you're seldom going to beat a goalie that way (unless you're ovie). Even his goal last game, while pretty, was a low percentage shot, those seldom go in. Would love to see him starting to score some greasy goals, because if he does, we're going to see a much more offensive game from him.

 

[Svencouver]

What I really want to see him do is cut in on the net/shoot more often. At least force the goalie to make a save. If you watch his WHL highlights the kid has an amazing shot and there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't translate to the NHL.



At 4:00, for instance, he screens the winger, drags, and has an insane release into the top shelf. That's as good as any one of Boeser's shots. He can shoot it hard - but his crazy release just don't seem like something he could magically part with at the pro level. In this video you'll also notice he's way more inclined to cut across the crease on zone entires to take an attempt. As someone who is frequently exasperated by his reluctance to do this at the NHL level I'm left scratching my head at where all this was lost in translation. I simply do not understand why he doesn't do this more often considering his success with it at a lower level and how often he finds himself in that situation.

Gotta think it's coaching related. From everything I've read regarding his development MGMT was very inclined on taking their time with Virtanen and wanted to make him into a more complete player, and you gotta think Green is continuing that push given Jake's newly earned defensive responsibilities and trust. He's doing much better on not making visually bone-headed plays and committing egregious giveaways like he used to. In regards to his zone entires, wouldn't be surprised if he's been told to start the cycle and zone control instead of trying to score on his own as well.

Hard to really know for sure what they're telling the kid to do and if he's following through, but I really want him to have an offense-first mindset for a little while and see how he does. Just let him loose and let him play like how he played in junior. Maybe he'll get the chance if he gets a top 6 role at some point. Playing bottom 6 on this team seems to indicate a checking/shutdown role first and foremost, and I feel like Jake could do better. It's not like we have a surplus of solid wingers or anything stopping him from playing up there. Have you seen Bo's wingers lately?

 

[Svencouver]

Great post. I think part of it is Jake is embracing his role now, and saying ok, you want me on the third line, I am going to show I can do that extremely well and play my 'role', which he is now doing. He is getting some PP time although on a weak 2nd unit, but could use some more 'offensive' time to start finding that part of his game. A big part of scoring in the NHL is being put in the position for offensive icetime with offensive players, that's not yet what Jake has been given and he's starting to earn it. The more opportunities you get, the more your game improves offensively if you have talent - practice makes perfect. More looks you get, more the chances you find your offensive game.

What i have noticed, is he doesn't go to the dirty areas enough other than when he drives the net. Perhaps its a function of being in a defensive role/on a defensive line, where chances offensively are slim, but if he can start finding ways to play like Burrows did, getting into the blue paint and finding some garbage, I think we may see him find that offensive game.

I think he is still trying to score the way he did in junior (for the most part) which is off the rush, and from outside. Problem is, in the NHL, you're seldom going to beat a goalie that way (unless you're ovie). Even his goal last game, while pretty, was a low percentage shot, those seldom go in. Would love to see him starting to score some greasy goals, because if he does, we're going to see a much more offensive game from him.

I absolutely agree. I actually think his part in this successful third line group has really shown how much he has progressed since his draft year. I don't think you could convince anyone in Jake's lowest points of struggling in Utica that he'd be anchoring a defensively-minded checking line and defending on 6 on 5. Stuff like this is what's going to make him successful when he earns a top 6 spot someday (which I still think he will).

 

[keslerburrows]

Who are/were you more excited about:

2013: 22 year old Zack Kassian coming off 7g 4a season (39 games)
or
2018: 22 year old Jake Virtanen coming off a 10g 10a season. (75 games)

Depressing stuff but I think it's Zack for me.

 

[Svencouver]

Who are/were you more excited about:

2013: 22 year old Zack Kassian coming off 7g 4a season (39 games)
or
2018: 22 year old Jake Virtanen coming off a 10g 10a season. (75 games)

Depressing stuff but I think it's Zack for me.

Gotta take context into account. 2012-13 Canucks > 2017-18 Canucks by a country mile. Half of Kassians ES point production was playing with Henrik and Daniel at a point where they were much better players than they were last year, so...

 

[F A N]

If you watch his WHL highlights the kid has an amazing shot and there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't translate to the NHL.

I think the issue is that his shot was noticeably not as amazing after his draft-eligible year (was it because of his shoulder surgery?). Players with his size and speed don't typically take such a step back in scoring in his draft + 1 year on a good team without something being wrong.

Who are/were you more excited about:

2013: 22 year old Zack Kassian coming off 7g 4a season (39 games)
or
2018: 22 year old Jake Virtanen coming off a 10g 10a season. (75 games)

Depressing stuff but I think it's Zack for me.

Comparatively? Definitely Kassian but ultimately it means nothing. Jake is the better player right now. I think Kassian's career might have been different had he spent time in the AHL under Green the way Virtanen has and then have Green as a coach at the NHL level.

Jake is entering/in his breakout years. He's surprisingly morphed into a pretty good defensive player. I would like to see him play some left wing.

 

[keslerburrows]

Comparatively? Definitely Kassian but ultimately it means nothing. Jake is the better player right now. I think Kassian's career might have been different had he spent time in the AHL under Green the way Virtanen has and then have Green as a coach at the NHL level.

Jake is entering/in his breakout years. He's surprisingly morphed into a pretty good defensive player. I would like to see him play some left wing.

True. I envisioned a higher offensive ceiling for ZK at that time. In contrast, I see Virtanen carving a more solid career with better defensive qualities as you noted.

 

[Canucks1096]

If I was GM, I would call Edm GM and offer Virtanen for Puljujarvi.

Two struggling young players traded for each other

 

[Verbalyst]

If I was GM, I would call Edm GM and offer Virtanen for Puljujarvi.

Two struggling young players traded for each other

As intriguing as that deal is. I still think Jake is one of the more unique players in the NHL. If he could ever put it all together he'd be an absolute nightmare. That being said I think he's still valuable in a limited role. In which I'm not sure Puljujarvi has the mentality to accept such

 

[F A N]

If I was GM, I would call Edm GM and offer Virtanen for Puljujarvi.

Two struggling young players traded for each other

The question is whether they are "struggling." Personally, I wouldn't make the deal. Virtanen is far better defensively. Puljujarvi will find himself out of the league if he doesn't find a way to produce offensively IMO. Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to acquire Puljujarvi and give him a chance. But I wouldn't trade Virtanen for him at this point.