Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXII: 'Tis no man — 'tis a relentless redemption machine

[Canuckle1970]

If we trade Jake and Stecher we get two positives. One we likely get back picks in this coming draft. Two we then have the cap room to sign Tofu.

Anything's possible, but if I'm the team that wants to trade for Jake, I'd wait until I know what his new contract is going to be worth.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Naslund didn't win us jack *** Good for him and his 40 + goals year after year.

You win games by scoring goals, you win championships when you have a full unit that 'buys in' and trusts each other. Nobody can trust Virtanen. I'm not here to celly and do a shotgun every time Jake scores a goal in game number 30-60 of the regular season. Young guys need to figure out how to play the game not how to bring energy and work hard, they should already be filled with that.

Naslund, Bertuzzi, the Sedins are how you get to the playoffs. Lapierre, Torres, Hansen, Higgins, Glass, Bieksa, the dog-on-bone grinding mentality gets you to the cup.

Jake still probably thinks we have a game coming up sometime this week, he's probably sitting at the rink wondering where everyone is right now. The kid is lost and can't be found

Then nobody won "jack ****" in the Canucks' 50 years of existence, not Linden, not Smyl, none of these "hard working" guys either. Horvat has been here for 5 years now and haven't won us "jack ****" nor had he scored 50 goals, should we just get rid of him too?
You don't win championship if your whole team is hard working grinders, no matter how much "buy in" there is from them. Without Naslund, Bertuzzi, Sedins you don't even get into the playoff so what is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that the 2011 run was on the backs of Lapierre, Torres, Hansen, Higgins and Glass? Was it them that went beast mode on Nashville, or scored 12 pts in 5 games against the Sharks, or help build us a 3-0 series lead against the Hawks? Your argument is getting more and more ridiculous every post, I don't even know where your end game is. Let me take a wild stab at your "All time Canucks lineup".
Gelinas-Linden-Smyl
Glass-Lapierre-Burrows
Motte-Beagle-Cooke
Cowan-Dowd-Dorsett
Something like that?

 

[IslandBeast]

Then nobody won "jack ****" in the Canucks' 50 years of existence, not Linden, not Smyl, none of these "hard working" guys either. Horvat has been here for 5 years now and haven't won us "jack ****" nor had he scored 50 goals, should we just get rid of him too?
You don't win championship if your whole team is hard working grinders, no matter how much "buy in" there is from them. Without Naslund, Bertuzzi, Sedins you don't even get into the playoff so what is your point? Are you seriously suggesting that the 2011 run was on the backs of Lapierre, Torres, Hansen, Higgins and Glass? Was it them that went beast mode on Nashville, or scored 12 pts in 5 games against the Sharks, or help build us a 3-0 series lead against the Hawks? Your argument is getting more and more ridiculous every post, I don't even know where your end game is. Let me take a wild stab at your "All time Canucks lineup".
Gelinas-Linden-Smyl
Glass-Lapierre-Burrows
Motte-Beagle-Cooke
Cowan-Dowd-Dorsett
Something like that?

First off, calm down.

You don't go to war with guys who are unreliable and that don't put in good enough effort, simple as that. The guys I listed all went into war every night with 100% effort, role players are integral come playoff time.

 

[Blue and Green]

I believe they're going to keep Jake, but at the lowest possible $$$$$, which is why they're playing down his value on the airwaves. They plan to lowball him on his new contract, and if he decides to go to arbitration, they're "signaling" (mostly to the fans) that they'll let him walk if they don't like the dollars.

Clubs cannot walk away from an arbitration decision where the annual cap hit is less than $4.5M.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Clubs cannot walk away from an arbitration decision where the annual cap hit is less than $4.5M.

Appreciate the info.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I believe they're going to keep Jake, but at the lowest possible $$$$$, which is why they're playing down his value on the airwaves. They plan to lowball him on his new contract, and if he decides to go to arbitration, they're "signaling" (mostly to the fans) that they'll let him walk if they don't like the dollars.

So.....how much does Jake want to stay in Vancouver vs more dollars on the open market? If he wants to stay, it will be on the Canucks' terms. Whether you agree with ownership or not, it seems, despite his improved regular season, that Jake's status with ownership is on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Being the eternal optimist, I'm hoping that they agree to term/dollars, and Jake gets his wake-up call and learns what it means to be a pro - off the ice as well as on.

They are "playing down his value", or more correctly calling him out, because it puts the focus from the media and fans on Jake and not on Bennings bigger f*** up eg bad expensive vets who add little to nothing.

Jake is easy to deal with. Dont sign him and Benning can call it a "win" and say hes worked to improve the team etc etc.

Jake frustrates thr f*** out of me. Only surpassed by his fan bois who think Jake is this untapped player after 5 years or so.


This is merely classic misdirection by Canucks management.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

First off, calm down.

You don't go to war with guys who are unreliable and that don't put in good enough effort, simple as that. The guys I listed all went into war every night with 100% effort, role players are integral come playoff time.

We just went to "war" with the likes of Sutter and Meyers. Two of the laziest players to ever don the Canucks uniform.

We have nearly an entire bottom six who didnt put in 100% effort.

 

[IslandBeast]

We just went to "war" with the likes of Sutter and Meyers. Two of the laziest players to ever don the Canucks uniform.

We have nearly an entire bottom six who didnt put in 100% effort.

Yeah we'd need to add a sweetener to get rid of one of those puppies.

 

[dwarf]

Trade him please.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Jake and a draft pick/prospect (Rafferty, a 2nd etc.) for Max Domi? I would be all over that.........

 

[Fatass]

Jake and a draft pick/prospect (Rafferty, a 2nd etc.) for Max Domi? I would be all over that.........

Domi needs a new contract though. He might cost the same as Tofu. Would we rather Tofu, or Domi? Plus, maybe we add Jake as sweetener to dump Baer or Sutter? Are we better going forward with Tofu - minus Jake and Sutter/Baer, or
Domi - minus Jake, Rafferty, and a second?
I do like Domi’s game, but think using Jake as sweetener to dump a toxic contract and keeping Tofu and picks + prospects is better value for Jake.
You do have me thinking though, because I really like Domi, and think he could be a nice fit with Bo. Plus, he can play centre, and could slot in that three spot if we can dump Sutter.
Darn it! You really got me thinking on this one.

 

[Zippgunn]

A "sheltered" Antoine Roussel playing 7 and a half minutes per game, arguably had a bigger impact on our playoffs than Virtanen who I believe was over 11 minutes per game.

I am seriously baffled by the lack of respect Roussel is getting on this board after the playoff he had for us which was, IMHO, exemplary. After all this is the same place where Alex Burrows and even the completely odious Max Lapierre get props all the time...

 

[VancouverJagger]

Domi needs a new contract though. He might cost the same as Tofu. Would we rather Tofu, or Domi? Plus, maybe we add Jake as sweetener to dump Baer or Sutter? Are we better going forward with Tofu - minus Jake and Sutter/Baer, or
Domi - minus Jake, Rafferty, and a second?
I do like Domi’s game, but think using Jake as sweetener to dump a toxic contract and keeping Tofu and picks + prospects is better value for Jake.
You do have me thinking though, because I really like Domi, and think he could be a nice fit with Bo. Plus, he can play centre, and could slot in that three spot if we can dump Sutter.
Darn it! You really got me thinking on this one.

Adding Jake as a sweetener to dump salary seems like such a waste. UGHHHHHH!!!!

I like Domi a lot as he brings that sandpaper that we don't really have much of. He's got a solid history of playing with Bo as well and yes I would prefer him over Tofu.

He has another year left on his contract so we could conceivably get him and Tofu under contract and then see where things go.

I know we have to dump salary but I'm somehow hoping there is still a dinosaur GM out there who can buy into the fact that Sutter is a "foundational piece" and be able to flip him for almost even value (this is probably incredibly optimistic but I really want Sutter gone - he's now my least favourite Canuck and probably the most realistic of our bad contracts to dump IMO).

 

[VancouverJagger]

I am seriously baffled by the lack of respect Roussel is getting on this board after the playoff he had for us which was, IMHO, exemplary. After all this is the same place where Alex Burrows and even the completely odious Max Lapierre get props all the time...

Roussel - I dunno - to me he is one of those guys who always looked like he was flying and trying his ass off out there yet really never did anything. Outside of dummying that unsuspecting St. Louis player (which was awesome yes) and scoring that one goal he was largely ineffective. One of those players you could take out of the line up and not miss at all.

 

[Fatass]

Adding Jake as a sweetener to dump salary seems like such a waste. UGHHHHHH!!!!

I like Domi a lot as he brings that sandpaper that we don't really have much of. He's got a solid history of playing with Bo as well and yes I would prefer him over Tofu.

He has another year left on his contract so we could conceivably get him and Tofu under contract and then see where things go.

I know we have to dump salary but I'm somehow hoping there is still a dinosaur GM out there who can buy into the fact that Sutter is a "foundational piece" and be able to flip him for almost even value (this is probably incredibly optimistic but I really want Sutter gone - he's now my least favourite Canuck and probably the most realistic of our bad contracts to dump IMO).

I’m pretty sure Domi needs a new contract, and is an RFA - same as Jake. Having Tofu and Domi would be fantastic!

 

[VanJack]

I am seriously baffled by the lack of respect Roussel is getting on this board after the playoff he had for us which was, IMHO, exemplary. After all this is the same place where Alex Burrows and even the completely odious Max Lapierre get props all the time...

If Roussel was simply an energy player making $1m to $1.5m you'd probably take it. But at his price-point, he's a serious liability. Unfortunately you can't separate a player's production from his cap-hit.

 

[Zippgunn]

Roussel - I dunno - to me he is one of those guys who always looked like he was flying and trying his ass off out there yet really never did anything. Outside of dummying that unsuspecting St. Louis player (which was awesome yes) and scoring that one goal he was largely ineffective. One of those players you could take out of the line up and not miss at all.

I strenuously disagree; he got 4 ES points while getting less icetime than anybody on the team (other than Juolevi and Ferland) outscoring both Virts and Gaudette combined (who were put in far more favorable positions to score). He doubled the next in line in PIM (largely due to TWO 10 minute misconducts he got in consecutive games; wonder what he said?), played at 110% all the time even when the rest of the team was doing nothing and took on all comers despite the fact that he's nowhere near their weight class. I think he's worth every penny. He can play on my team anytime...

 

[Zippgunn]

If Roussel was simply an energy player making $1m to $1.5m you'd probably take it. But at his price-point, he's a serious liability. Unfortunately you can't separate a player's production from his cap-hit.

In a playoff series a player's contract can not be a "liability"; only his play can be one. Some people, always with the contracts...

 

[Fatass]

Clubs cannot walk away from an arbitration decision where the annual cap hit is less than $4.5M.

Do you have a link to that rule? The radio guys keep saying the Canucks can walk away from both Jake and Troy is they don’t like the Arb number.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

In a playoff series a player's contract can not be a "liability"; only his play can be one. Some people, always with the contracts...

A bad contract absolutely can be a liability in the playoffs, as it prevents the team from making the team better. Roussel's contract by itself isn't a problem. The problem is there are several more like it.

 

[Blue and Green]

Do you have a link to that rule? The radio guys keep saying the Canucks can walk away from both Jake and Troy is they don’t like the Arb number.

Same "radio guys" that three weeks ago you said were claiming (incorrectly) that the Canucks would be in the bottom eight in draft order after beating St. Louis?

Find an online copy of the 2013 CBA and read Article 12.10 titled Walk Away Rights for Player-Elected Salary Arbitration. The minimum figure was $3.5M in 2013 but the clause includes mandated increases to match average salary increases; according to CapFriendly the minimum figure is now $4.538M.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I am seriously baffled by the lack of respect Roussel is getting on this board after the playoff he had for us which was, IMHO, exemplary. After all this is the same place where Alex Burrows and even the completely odious Max Lapierre get props all the time...

Calling Roussel’s post season exemplary is a stretch of gymnastic proportions - as is comparing his play in any way to Alex Burrows.

Lapierre is a more appropriate comparable.

 

[Fatass]

Calling Roussel’s post season exemplary is a stretch of gymnastic proportions - as is comparing his play in any way to Alex Burrows.

Lapierre is a more appropriate comparable.

Imo that’s a stretch too. Rooster played a very limited role. His minutes were often under 7 per game. Could have been he’s still recovering from his knee injury, and just wasn’t in good enough game shape to play more though. I think we keep Rooster. It’s Baer and Sutter that JB must dump. Love to dump Loui too, of course, but Jake isn’t sweet enough for anyone to swallow that bitter pill.

 

[Fatass]

Same "radio guys" that three weeks ago you said were claiming (incorrectly) that the Canucks would be in the bottom eight in draft order after beating St. Louis?

Find an online copy of the 2013 CBA and read Article 12.10 titled Walk Away Rights for Player-Elected Salary Arbitration. The minimum figure was $3.5M in 2013 but the clause includes mandated increases to match average salary increases; according to CapFriendly the minimum figure is now $4.538M.

.

 

[Blue and Green]

Post links.

Use a search engine and find it yourself. I'm not your butler.