Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXI

Jakes point totals for this season?


  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .

Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
2,386
774
Malmö/Vancouver
I disagree. Lapierre was a good playoff performer but in the regular season he was barely an adequate 4th line C most of the time.

Roussel may very well be on the 4th line on a contender or he may be on the 3rd. It depends on how the coach likes to roll his lines. Roussel will probably be on the shutdown line. Roussel at his best is good on the forecheck, helps drives possession, is good defensively and has some skill to put the puck into the net.
Show me one contender that would play Roussel in the top nine. Do you really think he would play in the top nine on Washington, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Tampa, Nashville, Winnipeg, Calgary or San Jose?
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
Show me one contender that would play Roussel in the top nine. Do you really think he would play in the top nine on Washington, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Tampa, Nashville, Winnipeg, Calgary or San Jose?

I can't "show you" when that player isn't on that team you know.

But you seem to be under the impression that those "contenders" you mention have amazing forward depth. In most cases, they don't. But let's do the exercise and assuming a healthy lineup.

Washington. Let's assume Ovechkin, Oshie, Wilson, and Vrana are locks on the wings. Who does Roussel have to beat out? Burakovsky who has been a healthy scratch this season? Stephenson? Boyd? Smith-Pelly? Roussel on the left and Connolly on the right looks good to me.

Pittsburgh. Assuming Crosby and Malkin C different lines with Brassard on the 3rd, you have Kessel, Hornqvist (if healthy), and Rust on the right. Guentzel and then Pearson? on the left? The next batch is Sheahan, Simon, Aston-Reese. I think Roussel can play ahead of those guys.

Toronto I would say maybe not, but it's not like the Leafs' left side is all that imposing. The Leafs' wingers are Marner, Hyman, Nylander, Marleau, Kapanen, Johnson, Lindholm, Brown. At the end of the day Roussel is a veteran that a coach like Babcock knows what he's going to get. Johnson or Roussel on the 3rd line come playoff time? I don't see this as a slam dunk.

Tampa. I would say probably not when Miller comes back. But right now their 3rd line winger is Erne. Not a hard guy to beat out come playoff time.

Nashville. I would say maybe not, but this is really not a team with exceptional winger depth. But I think Jarnkrok is proven and usually offers a bit more offense than Roussel so I can see Roussel spending most of his time on the 4th line come playoff time on that team.

Winnipeg. This is a tossup. The Jets are deep on left wing. Right side? Not so much. Wheeler is a lock. Roslovic, and Tanev? If Maurice is ok with playing Roussel on the right I can see him earning a spot over one of those two.

Calgary. They have Tkachuk, Lindholm, Gaudreau own the wings. The others are Frolik, Bennett, and Neal. Those 3 are not playing well. Natural position wise it's Bennett vs Roussel. It's really not that hard for Roussel to earn a 3rd line spot on that team.

San Jose. Hard to say but let's just say probably not. Their wingers are producing offensively.

Your turn. Why don't you "show us" why Roussel wouldn't come close to playing on the 3rd line on those teams?
 

Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
2,386
774
Malmö/Vancouver
On Washington Burakowsky and and Connolly take the 3rd line roles over Roussel.
On Pittsburg its close Aston-Reese or Roussel is a toss up, but I would probably play the young player. But yeah he could probably play here.
On Toronto I don't think its close, Johnsson is scoring at 40 pt pace and has room to grow. He is about to beat out Roussels career high in pts & goals in his rookie season.
Tampa, San Jose & Nashville you said it yourself.
Winnipegs top 6 winger are Laine, Ehlers, Connor and Wheeler. Their 3rd/4th line is Perrault, Roslovic, Lemieux & Tanev. So no to Roussel in that top 9. But sure he would beat out Lemieux on that 4th line (at least for now) Tanev has outscored Roussel the last 2 years playing on a 4th line, ill take him anyway over Roussel.
Calgary, Frolik is better Roussel, Bennett is a toss up, Neal should be better than Roussel but is playing like an ass so yeah maybe he would take a 3rd line spot there.

Also I never said Roussel wouldn't come close to playing on the 3rd line so dont put words in my mouth Benning boy, I said he would be a 4th liner on a contender, which he is on most of them. He might take a spot on 2 of the top 8 eight teams..

I want the Canucks to have enough depth to play Roussel on 4th line, I realize thats hard to understand from your view.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
On Washington Burakowsky and and Connolly take the 3rd line roles over Roussel.
On Pittsburg its close Aston-Reese or Roussel is a toss up, but I would probably play the young player. But yeah he could probably play here.
On Toronto I don't think its close, Johnsson is scoring at 40 pt pace and has room to grow. He is about to beat out Roussels career high in pts & goals in his rookie season.
Tampa, San Jose & Nashville you said it yourself.
Winnipegs top 6 winger are Laine, Ehlers, Connor and Wheeler. Their 3rd/4th line is Perrault, Roslovic, Lemieux & Tanev. So no to Roussel in that top 9. But sure he would beat out Lemieux on that 4th line (at least for now) Tanev has outscored Roussel the last 2 years playing on a 4th line, ill take him anyway over Roussel.
Calgary, Frolik is better Roussel, Bennett is a toss up, Neal should be better than Roussel but is playing like an ass so yeah maybe he would take a 3rd line spot there.

So basically, you're arguing based on your own subjective opinion and not looking at things objectively.

For example, as I pointed out to you, Burakowsky and Frolik (who are right wingers) have been healthy scratches. On those two teams, Roussel's competition is Stephenson/Boyd etc. and Sam Bennett.


Also I never said Roussel wouldn't come close to playing on the 3rd line so dont put words in my mouth Benning boy, I said he would be a 4th liner on a contender, which he is on most of them. He might take a spot on 2 of the top 8 eight teams..

So you admit that Roussel "might" take a spot on 2 of the top 8 teams. Yet you declared that Roussel isn't a 3rd line player on a contender and asked "show me a contender that would put Roussel in the top 9." You answered the question yourself. There are at least 2 contenders who would put Roussel in the top 9. You might want to check what words did come out of your mouth or keyboard, boy.

I want the Canucks to have enough depth to play Roussel on 4th line, I realize thats hard to understand from your view.
Huh? Of course I want the Canucks to have enough depth to play Roussel on the 4th line.
 

Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
2,386
774
Malmö/Vancouver
So basically, you're arguing based on your own subjective opinion and not looking at things objectively.

For example, as I pointed out to you, Burakowsky and Frolik (who are right wingers) have been healthy scratches. On those two teams, Roussel's competition is Stephenson/Boyd etc. and Sam Bennett.




So you admit that Roussel "might" take a spot on 2 of the top 8 teams. Yet you declared that Roussel isn't a 3rd line player on a contender and asked "show me a contender that would put Roussel in the top 9." You answered the question yourself. There are at least 2 contenders who would put Roussel in the top 9. You might want to check what words did come out of your mouth or keyboard, boy.


Huh? Of course I want the Canucks to have enough depth to play Roussel on the 4th line.

No there are 2 of 8 contender that he might take a place. He probably be on the 4th line of Pittsburg and Calgary too.

To say that Roussel is better player than Burakowsky an Frolik because they have been healthy scratches is not objective. You have no stats in your post your,.

Frolik has been injured and scratched but has 11 goals in 29 games, Roussel hs 4 goals in 41 and Frolik is better defensively. Frolik has 5 season with 40 + points and Roussel has none over 29 pts.vI think Calgary would play Neal over Roussel, and probably Bennet too.

Burakovsky has been a full time NHL player for three year before this one, He has been a third liner on a contender his entries career and he has outscored Rossel during every season he has been in the league. Yeah his not having his best year, but I take him on my team any day over Roussel.

BTW Asston-reese who is the guy playing third line LW on Pittsburg is also outscoring Roussel.

All I wanted to say is that Roussel is not some sort of elite 3rd liner that you should pay 3 million. On a great team he is 4th liner. I stand by that, even if he might beat out Bennet and Aston Reese for a third line spot on 2 of eight contenders.
 
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F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
No there are 2 of 8 contender that he might take a place. He probably be on the 4th line of Pittsburg and Calgary too.

So you declared that Roussel isn't a 3rd line player on a contender yet you admit that he might be a 3rd line player in 2 out of 8 contending teams?

To say that Roussel is better player than Burakowsky an Frolik because they have been healthy scratches is not objective. You have no stats in your post your,.

Frolik has been injured and scratched but has 11 goals in 29 games, Roussel hs 4 goals in 41 and Frolik is better defensively. Frolik has 5 season with 40 + points and Roussel has none over 29 pts.vI think Calgary would play Neal over Roussel, and probably Bennet too.

Never said Roussel is better. But again, Frolik and Neal are right wingers who haven't performed well. Roussel just needs to beat out Bennett if he was in Calgary.

Burakovsky has been a full time NHL player for three year before this one, He has been a third liner on a contender his entries career and he has outscored Rossel during every season he has been in the league. Yeah his not having his best year, but I take him on my team any day over Roussel.

Who you will take is not relevant. Burakovsky too is a right winger and while he's a full time NHL player, he's been a healthy scratch like every season he has played in the NHL including this season because he often disappears for long stretches. That's just a fact. You might want to educate yourself on a bit more here.

All I wanted to say is that Roussel is not some sort of elite 3rd liner that you should pay 3 million. On a great team he is 4th liner. I stand by that, even if he might beat out Bennet and Aston Reese for a third line spot on 2 of eight contenders.

Right and what I was pointing out is that you are wrong. Nobody is saying that Roussel is some sort of elite 3rd liner. He's not paid like one either. And the guys you think on a contender who are better? Burakovsky's cap hit is $3M in his RFA years. You mentioned Neal and Frolik in Calgary. Their cap hits are 5.75M and 4.3M, respectively.

It's not that long ago that I think most of us here thought Hansen had a great contract for being what most of us here thought was a one of the better 3rd line players in the league. His cap hit was $2.5M AAV with a more restrictive NTC.
 

bbud

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
10,320
3,112
BC
Now up to 10 games with no points. Currently on pace for 31 points.

Has he been given more opportunities/responsibility for offense in the absence of Pettersson?

He has played a lot played pretty well is not getting points but that's happening to much of the line up been a slump no doubt be nice to see him get some points has been close .
 

Diamonddog01

Diamond in the rough
Jul 18, 2007
11,014
3,834
Vancouver
Thought he played well vs Edmonton. A bit unlucky, but also the finish isn't quite there (specifically remember when he drove to the net). He'll need to work on that again this offseason imo.
 

Javaman

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
2,457
3,243
Vancouver
Thought he played well vs Edmonton. A bit unlucky, but also the finish isn't quite there (specifically remember when he drove to the net). He'll need to work on that again this offseason imo.

I don't disagree, but offensive production is pretty much the standard gauge for offensive forwards. Let's not kid ourselves, JV was drafted because he was projected to produce offensively in the NHL. If he struggles to put up routine 3rd line numbers in his 4th season of pro hockey, it's time to put down the pom-poms.

We shouldn't need to, at this point, start to cherry pick specific plays, especially when said plays don't result in points, to gloss over this.

I'm not necessarily saying that we've already seen the best that JV will become, but it's entirely possibly that this season may represent his peak.
 

Diamonddog01

Diamond in the rough
Jul 18, 2007
11,014
3,834
Vancouver
I don't disagree, but offensive production is pretty much the standard gauge for offensive forwards. Let's not kid ourselves, JV was drafted because he was projected to produce offensively in the NHL. If he struggles to put up routine 3rd line numbers in his 4th season of pro hockey, it's time to put down the pom-poms.

We shouldn't need to, at this point, start to cherry pick specific plays, especially when said plays don't result in points, to gloss over this.

I'm not necessarily saying that we've already seen the best that JV will become, but it's entirely possibly that this season may represent his peak.

Not really sure I'm waiving pom-poms (at least I don't think I am) but sure. In terms of potential I only see him at his peak as a 20/20 forward, he's currently on a 31 point pace . Which, by the way, is certainly not struggling to produce 3rd line numbers. Still a valuable piece, and has a lot of positive elements to his game.
 

bbud

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
10,320
3,112
BC
I don't disagree, but offensive production is pretty much the standard gauge for offensive forwards. Let's not kid ourselves, JV was drafted because he was projected to produce offensively in the NHL. If he struggles to put up routine 3rd line numbers in his 4th season of pro hockey, it's time to put down the pom-poms.

We shouldn't need to, at this point, start to cherry pick specific plays, especially when said plays don't result in points, to gloss over this.

I'm not necessarily saying that we've already seen the best that JV will become, but it's entirely possibly that this season may represent his peak.

He's been really slow I'd say in maturing his games far better and he is just one of those players man every tool size speed decent hands my take was his peak in mid 20s after watching his rookie year he was behind due to injury then acted 18
Now a year in AHL to earn his way 2nd NHL year and his game is improving he plays good d uses his body and speed and at times you see real confidence with the puck he has the skill hopefully one more year to really figure himself out we see what he can really be if he wants it.
 

Javaman

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
2,457
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Vancouver
Not really sure I'm waiving pom-poms (at least I don't think I am) but sure. In terms of potential I only see him at his peak as a 20/20 forward, he's currently on a 31 point pace . Which, by the way, is certainly not struggling to produce 3rd line numbers. Still a valuable piece, and has a lot of positive elements to his game.

Yeah, like you, I predicted his peak will be as a 20/20 forward. I picked him to get between 35 and 40 points this season, but also figured he was more likely to fall short of that than exceed it. Mind you, this was before his current 11 game pointless streak.

When I used the word "struggling", I was thinking in terms of the inconsistency he's shown. He's already had several stretches this season where his production is what you'd expect from a 4th liner. He's also had a few stretches where he produces like a second liner. It puts him on pace for about 30 points this season, but less than a month ago, he was on pace to get nearly 50 points.

That's just my take on it.
 
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Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
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JV is a healthy scratch tomorrow night as per TSN radio watching Canucks practise.

Well deserved scratch. I like him but not really an NHL player.
 

JumpierPegasus

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
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Abbotsford, BC
Had a REALLY poor game versus Detroit, so I think this is Green sending him a message. Whether he actually sits or not will be another question, but he really blew a lot of assignments and needs a bit of a shake after that.

He's been playing well lately overall, however. I've liked his compete, seems to make stuff happen. Still good at getting the puck over the opposing teams blueline using his speed, which he is turning into chances now that he doesn't just skate behind the net (as much) like he used to.
 
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Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
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I’m happy with this scratch. Guys a top 10 pick that will never score 20 goals. He could use the press box.

I would also sit BB6 for a game or 2, laziest player on the team.
 
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Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
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Still confident JV will end up closer to where I voted (<25) than where the majority voted (35-40).

But he still has more points than Nylander! So there! Jimbo vindicated!

Meh. Nylander is the far better player (although a distraction like his dad was ). JV at #6 OVR was horrid.
 

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