Player Discussion Jake Virtanen | Jake It Or Break It Edition

[M2Beezy]

Kids fast, shoots right in to the chest every time. Doesn’t hit. Doesn’t pass well. Scored 20 points after being a very high pick.


Time to move on from this fail. Admit we screwed up. Where does he get picked in a redraft? Nowhere near the 1st round.

Get out of here so sick of your crap against Boeser and now Virtanen. If you cant see the progress of Virtanen this year your outta your mind bub

He hits well, he skates well, and well positioned in the d zone. Needs to work on things but as long as keeps on progressing hes a very useful player for us as would be for any team. Who was picked where is done, cant change it. Hes here and hes useful. Moving on pal MOVING ON

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Nice title change.

I would have also accepted...

Jake it 'till you make it

Jake'n it to the streets

Jake, rattle and roll

 

[drax0s]

Lol I edited that out but you got it! Boy you are quick lol busy day? Or I know - you must follow me - thanks

You two go get a room.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Get out of here so sick of your crap against Boeser and now Virtanen. If you cant see the progress of Virtanen this year your outta your mind bub

He hits well, he skates well, and well positioned in the d zone. Needs to work on things but as long as keeps on progressing hes a very useful player for us as would be for any team. Who was picked where is done, cant change it. Hes here and hes useful. Moving on pal MOVING ON

And this is coming from one of the most vociferous anti-Jake posters just a year ago.

The kid's made progress and I don't believe he's done yet. Time will tell exactly what we have here.

 

[604]

Kind of wish Jake would go back to looking st his shot mechanics.

He gets a lot of chances but fails to bury a lot of them.

Sometimes I feel like I'd pay for him to see Kesler's shooting coach.

 

[Phenomenon13]

Kind of wish Jake would go back to looking st his shot mechanics.

He gets a lot of chances but fails to bury a lot of them.

Sometimes I feel like I'd pay for him to see Kesler's shooting coach.

Which is surprising considering one his biggest strengths in the draft was his ability to shoot the puck.

I'm not sure what is holding him back. Is it his inability to create space for his shot or is he not being deceptive enough?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

You’re nuts if you’re grasping on to straws that he’s “getting better”. 20 points for a 6 OVR. Guy woudknt go anywhere near the 1st round in a redraft. Do you disagree with that?

Look at his production in his draft +2 year. It’s a joke.

Get out of here so sick of your crap against Boeser and now Virtanen. If you cant see the progress of Virtanen this year your outta your mind bub

He hits well, he skates well, and well positioned in the d zone. Needs to work on things but as long as keeps on progressing hes a very useful player for us as would be for any team. Who was picked where is done, cant change it. Hes here and hes useful. Moving on pal MOVING ON

Cra

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Kind of wish Jake would go back to looking st his shot mechanics.

He gets a lot of chances but fails to bury a lot of them.

Sometimes I feel like I'd pay for him to see Kesler's shooting coach.

His shot is fine. Its where he takes them and when that is the problem.

 

[Hit the post]

I don't have a problem with the pick even now. You sometimes have to take a risk and "swing for the fences" on a pick vs whoever might've been the "safe pick".

 

[Luck 6]

You’re nuts if you’re grasping on to straws that he’s “getting better”. 20 points for a 6 OVR. Guy woudknt go anywhere near the 1st round in a redraft. Do you disagree with that?

Look at his production in his draft +2 year. It’s a joke.




Cra

Nobody would draft him at the same spot considering what we know now. In fact, most of us didn’t have him as our pick to begin with. That’s something far different though than calling him a bust, Virtanen can still carve out a career as a top 6 forward based on what we saw this year. Does that make him the right choice? Nope, but we already know he wasn’t the right choice, are we actually still beating the dead horse on that?

 

[bossram]

Kind of wish Jake would go back to looking st his shot mechanics.

He gets a lot of chances but fails to bury a lot of them.

Sometimes I feel like I'd pay for him to see Kesler's shooting coach.

Which is surprising considering one his biggest strengths in the draft was his ability to shoot the puck.

I'm not sure what is holding him back. Is it his inability to create space for his shot or is he not being deceptive enough?

You see some of his goals. He can shoot the puck. It's what's between his ears that's holding him back. And that was evident even in his draft year.

He has bad shot selection. When he has the ability to take the puck to the net, he usually won't. And he's not good at getting in position to get himself good looks on goal. A lot of times he settles for weird bad-angle shots when he could try to cycle or make some in-zone plays.

JV can be a useful piece. But it's probably best to stop hoping he's going to be some crazy goal-scoring power forward for us.

 

[bossram]

I don't have a problem with the pick even now. You sometimes have to take a risk and "swing for the fences" on a pick vs whoever might've been the "safe pick".

The high-upside picks were quite obviously, even at the time, Ehlers and Nylander. JV was a much "safer" pick as the rationale was that if he didn't pan out "at least he could be a bottom-six player".

The former two just displayed infinitely more offensive upside in their draft years. It's really not close. It was just a massively blown pick.

 

[M2Beezy]

You’re nuts if you’re grasping on to straws that he’s “getting better”. 20 points for a 6 OVR. Guy woudknt go anywhere near the 1st round in a redraft. Do you disagree with that?

Look at his production in his draft +2 year. It’s a joke.




Cra

Your missing the point again Johnny. Seems to be your thing.

Get past the draft position, aint his falt and aint gonna change anything. He can be useful for us and i think theres still lots a room for growth and progress. Hard to preddy where will end up but is def an NHL player and def will be.

NEXT

 

[drax0s]

Which is surprising considering one his biggest strengths in the draft was his ability to shoot the puck.

I'm not sure what is holding him back. Is it his inability to create space for his shot or is he not being deceptive enough?

Jake has issues seeing passing / shooting lanes and knowing how a play develops on the ice. It was something I noticed when he was briefly played with McDavid at the WJC. His current game is to skate past defenders and get a shot on net and if he's defended properly, either take a low percentage shot from outside or button hook around behind the net. That's really it.

He needs to watch Boeser play and watch how he finds passing / shooting lanes, and then watch how Horvat has adjusted his game from just being a bull and charging forward / using a toe-drag to using drop passes to trailing defenders and drawing off defenders with his speed.

edit: Learning how to stick handle and be elusive will definitely help him keep the puck and find better angles for shots, but he needs to learn to find opportunities to use his linemates more.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Hey I agree it's great that Jake is working on his stick handling - he's got some other nice tools (his speed) that could work well if he can improve this area of things.

However.........while I am still somewhat bullish on Virtanen (In a poll earlier I had him marked for 15 goals and 17 assists) I tend to think his issues are that he just doesn't process the game quite quick enough.........and no matter how much he works on his skills - there will be a ceiling for him due to this. Which to me is totally fine as I think he's going to be a very useful player for us and I am at peace with the fact that we could have had Nylander etc..........(something a lot of people just never will be)

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Not an NHL regular on any great team. No chance.

Your missing the point again Johnny. Seems to be your thing.

Get past the draft position, aint his falt and aint gonna change anything. He can be useful for us and i think theres still lots a room for growth and progress. Hard to preddy where will end up but is def an NHL player and def will be.

NEXT

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Unfortunately it’s not how you say. That little number beside your draft position doesn’t go away. You don’t just “forget” that he was a 6 OVR and plays / projects like a 156 OVR. It’s not his fault but we aren’t talking about that. Based on his draft position he’s a HUGE bust. If he was drafted in the 6th round he’s a steal. Somewhere 3rd/4th is where he should have gone.


Just cuz it doesn’t feed your agenda, or makes you feel better, you cannot disregard where he was picked.

Nobody would draft him at the same spot considering what we know now. In fact, most of us didn’t have him as our pick to begin with. That’s something far different though than calling him a bust, Virtanen can still carve out a career as a top 6 forward based on what we saw this year. Does that make him the right choice? Nope, but we already know he wasn’t the right choice, are we actually still beating the dead horse on that?

 

[BC Ben]

Does your league have 100 or more teams in it? Im trying to figure out your original thought process here

We run 16 forwards and 9 defensemen, so even with some bench players in the mix, I can keep away from similar players in same team (i.e., forward-forward, and especially Dman-Dman).

 

[LordBacon]

Jake is the only player on the team that I have no clue of what he'll become. He is putting in the hard work and it shows this season, loved his short stint with gaudette as well. If dahlen makes the big club id love to see a line of dahlen-gaudette-virtanen. Excited to see him next season none the less.
(sorry for the poor grammar guys, im not from NA)

 

[JuniorNelson]

Virtanen shows glimpses. If he gets decent coaching he can build on that.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Unfortunately it’s not how you say. That little number beside your draft position doesn’t go away. You don’t just “forget” that he was a 6 OVR and plays / projects like a 156 OVR. It’s not his fault but we aren’t talking about that. Based on his draft position he’s a HUGE bust. If he was drafted in the 6th round he’s a steal. Somewhere 3rd/4th is where he should have gone.


Just cuz it doesn’t feed your agenda, or makes you feel better, you cannot disregard where he was picked.

We sure as hell can disregard where he was picked. If you don't want to, that's your own problem. If it leads to you posting nonsense like wanting to "move on" from a useful player, then you might want to get over it yourself.

Seriously, what to you want to do ??? Just waive him because he's not the superstar you hoped for with that pick ? I don't see Nylander or Ehlers becoming superstars either (not like we passed on a Kopitar for him).

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I honestly don’t know if you are serious or trolling people ... Ehlers was basically a 30 goal / 30 assist guy last year (29/31 for 60)

Nylander had over 60 + points last year.

Don’t even mention 10+10 Jake Virtanen in the same breath. And of Jakes 20 points most in garbage time.


Yes you absolutely move on from him. He’s not a top 6 player on the worst team in the NHL. He’s not an NHL player on a good team. Trade him for a pick, try to get it right.

This is Cody Hodgson all over again. You WANT him to succeed so bad because he was picked top 10, you didn’t wanna give up on him.... where is he now? Not playing in the NHL. And Hodgson at least had a couple 30+ and 40+ Seasons. He had a better trajectory and played a more meaningful position than JV and he’s out of the NHL now.

We sure as hell can disregard where he was picked. If you don't want to, that's your own problem. If it leads to you posting nonsense like wanting to "move on" from a useful player, then you might want to get over it yourself.

Seriously, what to you want to do ??? Just waive him because he's not the superstar you hoped for with that pick ? I don't see Nylander or Ehlers becoming superstars either (not like we passed on a Kopitar for him).

 

[Josepho]

Unfortunately it’s not how you say. That little number beside your draft position doesn’t go away. You don’t just “forget” that he was a 6 OVR and plays / projects like a 156 OVR.

a) why don't you forget it? it has absolutely nothing to do with his abilities as a hockey player. i don't hear you going on about cutting sam gagner because he's a disappointing 6th overall pick.

b) there is literally nothing suggesting he's tracking like an 156th overall pick, hyperbole like this is why no one takes you seriously

who the f*** would you rather play in the bottom six than jake

tell me

You’re nuts if you’re grasping on to straws that he’s “getting better”. 20 points for a 6 OVR. Guy woudknt go anywhere near the 1st round in a redraft. Do you disagree with that?

Look at his production in his draft +2 year. It’s a joke.

it isn't his draft +2 year so i don't know what kind of argument you're making. not to mention if you consider him moving up to the nhl and scoring at a similar rate to how he scored in the ahl not "getting better" you probably need to get your head checked.

he's 22 and here's how his 5v5 p/60 compares with a few other players i found.

joe thornton - 1.32
jonathan drouin - 1.3
kyle okposo - 1.29
sam reinhart - 1.29
jake virtanen - 1.29
tomas plekanec - 1.26
victor rask - 1.25
wayne simmonds - 1.23
mikko koivu - 1.23
ryan o'reilly - 1.08
jason spezza - 1.02
frans nielsen - 1.00

i know you're going to take this out of context to ("someone said he's better than simmonds!!!1!!!"), but a player who produces like this without being a liability in terms of possession absolutely belongs in the nhl and should probably be getting more icetime if anything.

And of Jakes 20 points most in garbage time.

here's the game logs from every game virtanen played this season

points in october - 3
points in november - 3
points in december - 2
points in january - 2
points in february - 4
points in march - 4 (half of which came before we were mathematically eliminated)
points in april - 1

stop making shit up. you're going to get called out on it every time.

 

[DL44]

Sooooo... Granlund just re-signed for a 1 year $1.48 mil contract.

Does Virtanen get more or less than Granlund?


I would suspect this would be a ceiling for Jake on a one yr, and a floor for a 2 yr.
Thoughts?
Prayers?

 

[Josepho]

2.25 is my guess