Jake Muzzin & Trevor Moore activated of the IR

[deprw]

If the thought behind keeping expiring assets is "You never know what could happen in the playoffs.", well then you do know, you are hoping on a string of good luck to win the cup, that is not a good reason to let 2 quality assets walk for nothing. "Good luck" should never be part of your asset management plan.

Playoffs and winning in overall is so overrated, because just only one team wins a championship and there is 32 teams. We can think different and became farm team to whole league. Think about how many picks you could get for Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Sandin, Tavares etc!

Draft could be our championship game, where we could make all the great selections and then we could trade them over for other teams for draft picks. In few years we might have all the draft selections and then we could argue here who we should pick next! What a game of joy.

Or maybe we just try to play this league the normal way, trust our players and our team. Build our team with short and long term in consideration. This team isn't the final product yet, there is 32 game left and lot can happen. In proper hockey trade I could trade Barrie, but if we think last years playoffs. One big problem was special teams and our PP has been flying when we put Barrie as QB.

 

[Bluelines]

Playoffs and winning in overall is so overrated, because just only one team wins a championship and there is 32 teams. We can think different and became farm team to whole league. Think about how many picks you could get for Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Sandin, Tavares etc!

Draft could be our championship game, where we could make all the great selections and then we could trade them over for other teams for draft picks. In few years we might have all the draft selections and then we could argue here who we should pick next! What a game of joy.

Or maybe we just try to play this league the normal way, trust our players and our team. Build our team with short and long term in consideration. This team isn't the final product yet, there is 32 game left and lot can happen. In proper hockey trade I could trade Barrie, but if we think last years playoffs. One big problem was special teams and our PP has been flying when we put Barrie as QB.

I think you missed the point, the players I mentioned were all on expiring contracts, all left for no return at all. The players you mention in the bolded part, are all locked up long term, why would you trade them?

You mention last years playoffs, we had a historically bad PK, Barrie will not help with our PK problems.

At the end of the day the principal of having value leave for no value is poor asset management. We are begging for depth, would (3) additional 1st rounders in our farm system help or hurt our depth?

They said keep JVR, the experience of making the playoffs with JVR will help the young core. They said keep Bozak, the experience of making the playoffs with Bozak will help the young core. They said keep Gardiner, the experience of making the playoffs with Gardiner will help the young core.

The experience of making the playoffs clearly hasn't matured our team or helped them approach the game in a mature fashion. Our coach less than a week ago called his team immature. Can anyone explain how letting those 3 UFA's go for nothing helped our team this season?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They both looked quick last night, I'm surprised how different Moore looked last night vs the previous games he played, fast, engaged, going into the dirty areas, he looked a little shaky handling the puck but that is to be expected after a long layoff. AJ looks like that water bug again.

Yes both looked good. We need them both back playing like they can.

 

[deprw]

I think you missed the point, the players I mentioned were all on expiring contracts, all left for no return at all. The players you mention in the bolded part, are all locked up long term, why would you trade them?

You mention last years playoffs, we had a historically bad PK, Barrie will not help with our PK problems.

At the end of the day the principal of having value leave for no value is poor asset management. We are begging for depth, would (3) additional 1st rounders in our farm system help or hurt our depth?

They said keep JVR, the experience of making the playoffs with JVR will help the young core. They said keep Bozak, the experience of making the playoffs with Bozak will help the young core. They said keep Gardiner, the experience of making the playoffs with Gardiner will help the young core.

The experience of making the playoffs clearly hasn't matured our team or helped them approach the game in a mature fashion. Our coach less than a week ago called his team immature. Can anyone explain how letting those 3 UFA's go for nothing helped our team this season?

I think you might have missed my point. I sure understand asset management and the importance of it. We need depth in future and that's why trading picks away for rentals hurts. Or when Dubas had to retool our cap last summer and use assets there like our 1st rounder. I think we were too good one season too early, it would have been beneficial to trade away Bozak and JVR. We didn't have enough depth to trade away Gardiner last season. It would have been idiotic move.

Because, is it ok to give up? Is it ok to say our core that "You're not good enough. We don't believe in you. We can't win with this team." How long you think that they will listen you or how long they want to play in here? We damn sure loose those UFAs, because they don't want to be in here.

This league is about winning and it's damn hard. One out 32 teams succeeds, but our window is open. It isn't wide open, but it's open and with this core and I think they believe that we can win and they should. That's what their paid to do. Did Capitals gave up or St. Louis?

If our management doesn't support that why bother keeping our core and if assets are so important why don't get tons of them, because if we aren't trying to win, then we just give up? What's fun with that? Let's draft then!

About our chances this year. Last season we almost won that Boston series and we had two badly injured dman. It would be idiotic to get rid off Barrie at the moment. We'll need that depth and you said that we haven't looked like contender. For christ sake look how this team started under Keefe... Would you rather play Barrie in playoffs or some random Marlie?

 

[Stephen]

I wonder if this means that Martin Marincin will be placed on waivers and sent to the AHL? I know that the next game Rasmus Sandin plays will be his 10th and that starts the clock on his ELC, however I think he's earned the chance to stay in the lineup and has looked better than Marincin.

Nope. It’s obvious that Marincin is Shanahan’s son...

 

[Bluelines]

I think you might have missed my point. I sure understand asset management and the importance of it. We need depth in future and that's why trading picks away for rentals hurts. Or when Dubas had to retool our cap last summer and use assets there like our 1st rounder. I think we were too good one season too early, it would have been beneficial to trade away Bozak and JVR. We didn't have enough depth to trade away Gardiner last season. It would have been idiotic move.

Because, is it ok to give up? Is it ok to say our core that "You're not good enough. We don't believe in you. We can't win with this team." How long you think that they will listen you or how long they want to play in here? We damn sure loose those UFAs, because they don't want to be in here.

This league is about winning and it's damn hard. One out 32 teams succeeds, but our window is open. It isn't wide open, but it's open and with this core and I think they believe that we can win and they should. That's what their paid to do. Did Capitals gave up or St. Louis?

If our management doesn't support that why bother keeping our core and if assets are so important why don't get tons of them, because if we aren't trying to win, then we just give up? What's fun with that? Let's draft then!

About our chances this year. Last season we almost won that Boston series and we had two badly injured dman. It would be idiotic to get rid off Barrie at the moment. We'll need that depth and you said that we haven't looked like contender. For christ sake look how this team started under Keefe... Would you rather play Barrie in playoffs or some random Marlie?

Dude first, 31 teams not 32.

Is it OK to lie to a team and tell them that they are really good and we are going for it ,when they are really not that good and probably wont make it past the 1st round? By setting the expectation that what you currently do now is good enough, that is telling the young core they don't have to improve, this will win us the cup. BTW hoping and dreaming never won a cup. No wonder this team was called out by their coach as immature. If you want to improve a business, sports team, personally, you need to start with an honest discussion about what is broke and what is working well and move on from there. By trading JVR, Bozak, Gardiner before their contract expired, you are showing your youth that status quo is not good enough, it might also help with cap management by showing the players you are willing to make tough decisions that benefit the team.

Did the Caps or St Lou give up? The Caps fired their GM, fired their coach multiple times, were so disappointed by the teams performance, they did not offer their lame duck coach a contract before that season began, in the first round they were down either in 3-0 or 3-1 in the series vs CLB, years before the cup win they allowed allowed a perennial All Star and Norris candidate dman leave through free agency, made multiple multiple multiple changes to their roster, won the Presidents cup multiple times and during the cup run had many players performing way above their normal standard to allow them to win the cup. St Lou did something that has never, ever happened before. So if the Leafs win the Presidents cup multiple times or if you can see into the future and say the Leafs will replicate the St Lou model, sure lets do the Wash or St Lou model.

We have different opinions on how to build a sustained winner, I like the concept of building from within, managing your assets in a responsible long term manner by being honest with yourself and the players. You prefer the, tell the players what they want to hear regardless of the truth, rolling the dice every year, maybe this year we replicate the St Lou model, maybe we don't, concentrate on today, tomorrow be damned. You clearly don't feel that 3 more first rounders in our farm system would benefit the Leafs, I do. That is fine you have your thoughts I have mine, cheers!

 

[deprw]

Dude first, 31 teams not 32.

Is it OK to lie to a team and tell them that they are really good and we are going for it ,when they are really not that good and probably wont make it past the 1st round?

St Lou did something that has never, ever happened before. So if the Leafs win the Presidents cup multiple times or if you can see into the future and say the Leafs will replicate the St Lou model, sure lets do the Wash or St Lou model.

We have different opinions on how to build a sustained winner, I like the concept of building from within, managing your assets in a responsible long term manner by being honest with yourself and the players. You prefer the, tell the players what they want to hear regardless of the truth, rolling the dice every year, maybe this year we replicate the St Lou model, maybe we don't, concentrate on today, tomorrow be damned. You clearly don't feel that 3 more first rounders in our farm system would benefit the Leafs, I do. That is fine you have your thoughts I have mine, cheers!

31 teams, my bad.

Yeah, but you can see into the future and tell our players that team isn't good enough, when they're playing 112p / season pace under Keefe. I might think that some other teams should give up also, if that is the standard at the moment.

The idea of that model is that you have chance every year, instead of those down years (this still might be one for the Leafs). Caps didn't believe Trotz that much, but they didn't gut their team, because of it.

Last year we took Stanley Cup finalist to seventh game with two busted regular dman. I wouldn't write off this team so easily and that injury bug may help us one year.

But it's fine. I'm willing to agree to disagree. Cheers!

 

[Bluelines]

31 teams, my bad.

Yeah, but you can see into the future and tell our players that team isn't good enough, when they're playing 112p / season pace under Keefe. I might think that some other teams should give up also, if that is the standard at the moment.

The idea of that model is that you have chance every year, instead of those down years (this still might be one for the Leafs). Caps didn't believe Trotz that much, but they didn't gut their team, because of it.

Last year we took Stanley Cup finalist to seventh game with two busted regular dman. I wouldn't write off this team so easily and that injury bug may help us one year.

But it's fine. I'm willing to agree to disagree. Cheers!

I can't see into the future but it would be a welcomed party trick for sure. The current team has a tick when it comes to closing out games, for whatever reason they need a big lead to feel comfortable. . I did however know this team has always struggled defensively as a team and as a defence core, had a historically poor record vs Boston, was going into the series as the 3rd seed giving home ice to Boston, Boston had an elite PP and I specifically said that in order for Toronto to have a hope they would have to keep Boston off the PP, they didn't and they lost the series because of it. Admittedly I didn't know they would lose for sure but I knew how they would lose. At the end of the day, if you are a GM you ahve to ask, is Jake Gardiner teh difference between a Cup and no Cup? The answer for some fans is Yes, but not in a good way . If Armchair GM Bluelines knew how Boston was going to beat us, I'm pretty confident Toronto has metrics that showed Toronto was out of their element vs Boston.

We may be playing at a 112 point pace under Keefe but against playoff teams, run and gun has never been a winning combination. This team is FAR away from any talk about being a serious contender. There is also an unfamiliarity with the Leafs system that catches other teams off guard, in our next 7 game series (assuming we make the playoffs) the other coach, will have 50 or so games to watch and if he is any good will be able to counteract that odd winger high system. IMO the way the Leafs play, with out improved team defence, it is more of a gimmick than a sustainable system.

People this is how to debate a fellow forum member. No casting aspersions, no low blows, just honest back and fourth discourse with a level headed poster @deprw, and a Cheers! at the end of it. Pleasure debating with you.